Alex Rance [merged]

[YellowandBlackBlood]

I reckon all teams would love to have their best defender to have the luxury of playing 3rd tall. But that's just your excuse not to answer the question. What stat's back up that he can't play number 1 defender? I bet you'll find plenty more stats that say he's a damned good one

[The Machine]

Rance is a gun and has been for 2 years

[The Big Richo]

Always gets up for Riewoldt.

[the claw]

we have done rance to death, i stick by my comments. if you wish to see my thinking on rance i suggest you peruse the rance thread.
the differing opinion on rance is not on weather he can play but the role he should play based on his 7yrs.

i still think we would be a much better side if rance played the third tall role and we found a say 195cm plud 100kg full back.
i still think alex is very vulnerable when taken deep and forced to play body on body.
statistically he has always found plenty of ball and rebounded. hes always got high 1%ers mostly spoils but imo he has always been suspect when taken deep. most of his 1%ers are intercepts or third man up.
if you think rance has not warranted criticism over the yrs you are kidding your self. has he got better as hes gone along of course.

David Astbury at 195cm and 95 kg?

 

Rance 194cm and 96kg 

whistle all you like. alex is best suited to a thirds tall role imo. yes in saying that hes played some real good footy this yr both as an attacking player and defender.
your missing the point.
the idea is to become a premiership side, having the ability to play rance in the role hes best suited to would mean we have also found a very reliable big bodied one v one f/b and a proven chb.
i still maintain to get to be a contender we need a super reliable f/b who is rarely beaten in any situation some one like rutten or mcpharlin. we need another tall running defender hopefully mcintosh, we need a chb maybe thtats astbury maybe its not.

our list will not get us close to a premiership the bar must be raised and continually raised until we are good enough to challenge.
this thinking of ,  we dont need anybody else attitude is just rubbish. its time supporters starting raising the bar no more 9th placed finishes, no more having a season fall apart on the back of just a few injuries. build the depth with quality and the success will come.

anyway if people want to discuss rance im happy to go back over to the rance thread. this thread is about gordon and as usual i will stand by what ive said on this bloke as well.

I haven't missed the point, I simply don't agree with it. You and one or two other posters talk about Rance ideally being a 3rd tall so he can rebound..... Well playing as a KPD  isn't he number 1 in intercepts and one of the top rebounding defenders in the comp anyway? This is on top of him winning more one v one contest against the big forwards in the comp than any other KpD. Sorry claw, I'm whistling bc I think it's time to drop it. He'd be grossly under utilised if he was just a 3rd tall

no one said you have to agree.  so we will just have to disagree. for me he doesnt play as a kpd he plays more as a running third tall type. his physical attributes and best strengths imo allow him to play well on the mobile running types like franklin and riewoldt.
 i still think him more vulnerable than most when hes caught deep body on body. hence i have regularly advocated we finsd a rutten or mcpharlin type players who can be relied on 99.9 % of the time to win phsical one v one aerial battles.

you would think by reactions over the yrs that ive called rance a dud or he cant play.  ive constantly said  this is not so. i watched him here as a junior and was adamant we take him at pick 18.
imo his strengths as a junior have become the weapons he uses best as a  afl player. the weaknesses he had in his game as a junior still exist.  alex has never ever been really strong in the air. hes never imo been a great body on body player. its when hes in motion that he does his best work. you know what lance franklin is the same. the best tall player in the game but buddy has weaknesses.

ive regularly voiced criticism of one area of his game and advocated we use him in a different role than we do. but to change that role we need to find others who can play kpd and play it well.
im sorry if it doesnt sit well with people but alex is not perfect.

[big tone]

id like a dollar for every time ive been abused on forums for daring to say he should never play deep.  and abused for regularly saying the following. is poor in the air makes poor decisions and  has poor skills and struggles one on one.

he was drafted in 07 and none of these things has ever truly improved enough. hmm yr 6 and very deficient in absolute key aspects of the game have to say it really is time to look for an alternative option in the key posts. we at the  least need another option ready to go.
 not saying delist but am saying its time to make him a depth player and its certainly time to give him an alternative role. no more playing deep please 6 yrs of the same mistakes has to be enough for all and sundry surely.

imo what keeps people on his band wagon is he will do all of the criticisms well at times.  but invariably he does em poor numerous times as well for a defender the lack of consistency and the cost is just too much.

First page I opened up.
This was last year and you wanted Rance as a depth player??
Come on mate!

[the claw]

id like a dollar for every time ive been abused on forums for daring to say he should never play deep.  and abused for regularly saying the following. is poor in the air makes poor decisions and  has poor skills and struggles one on one.

he was drafted in 07 and none of these things has ever truly improved enough. hmm yr 6 and very deficient in absolute key aspects of the game have to say it really is time to look for an alternative option in the key posts. we at the  least need another option ready to go.
 not saying delist but am saying its time to make him a depth player and its certainly time to give him an alternative role. no more playing deep please 6 yrs of the same mistakes has to be enough for all and sundry surely.

imo what keeps people on his band wagon is he will do all of the criticisms well at times.  but invariably he does em poor numerous times as well for a defender the lack of consistency and the cost is just too much.

First page I opened up.
This was last year and you wanted Rance as a depth player??
Come on mate!

yep ive been very consistent in the criticisms ive had of him. the same criticisms go back to when we first drafted him. ive been asking for us to draft a f/b for almost as long as i can remeber. every yr i ask we take our share of talls because we have never ever addressed the issue.
when that post was done there were plenty of people bemoaning the falling over. being out bodied one v one, the mistimed punches  misreading of the ball in the air and constantly being caught out of position. i stand by those comments still. i will concede the depth comments a bit over the top

i clearly cant say any more to convince people but i think if we are to become a premiership side we  need to find a big bodied 100kg f/b who can go toe to toe deep in defense against the big kpfs freeing rance up to do what he does most of the time now anyway.

[tony_montana]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

[Yeahright]

yep ive been very consistent in the criticisms ive had of him.

You like to talk about how "consistent" you are with your "unwavering" opinion on people like it's something special but to me it makes it seem like you're just stubborn and can't acknowledge the progress and improvement some players make.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

[the claw]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

and this is what i mean about precious. what a total distortion of the debate. tone and i have only asked that at the least he perform at a bare minimum acceptable level which just has not happened.

[georgies31]

Claw Astbury looked good in the first 10 games as our big KPD,cant remember are game he got towled up.Question tho if he can stay fit on the park.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

and this is what i mean about precious. what a total distortion of the debate. tone and i have only asked that at the least he perform at a bare minimum acceptable level which just has not happened.

Define bare minimum acceptable level.

[big tone]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

and this is what i mean about precious. what a total distortion of the debate. tone and i have only asked that at the least he perform at a bare minimum acceptable level which just has not happened.

Define bare minimum acceptable level.

I will.... More than 2 touches of the footy.
Also people say he was good on the weekend, he had 7 touches in a game of footy against a team on the bottom of the ladder. And no tackles. Now I'm no mathematician but that's less than 2 touches a quarter for a bloke that has a licence to play basically in at least 3/4 of the ground.  In today's footy that's not acceptable even for a big bloke.

Also you say he has only played 32 games, there is a reason for that too. He couldn't get a game in our side SCREAMING out for a KPF to help Jack. They preferred to play McGuane and Edwards over him. Now that speaks for itself.
He has been injured and I except that for part of it but he has been on the list a long time now but delivered very little in those 32 games. To compare him to Rance in anyway shape or form is plain silly.
Good luck to him and I hope he turns it around because make no mistake he needs to.
Stick to your guns Y&BB, there is nothing wrong with supporting the guy but there is also nothing wrong with expecting a lot more from him. 

One question for you- if he wasn't 200cm tall and he couldn't kick 60m, would you still rate him as highly? IMO if you take those two things away, he is O'Hanlon.

[Judge Roughneck]

If unicorns drove Toyotas, what would be the price of fish in north west Tokyo?

Fun hypothetical there mate but the facta bases in this realm of reality as far as I can see are

He IS 22
He IS 200
He DID kick two goals
He CAN kick 65 meters

If your aunty had a knob she's be your uncle.

[Chuck17]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

and this is what i mean about precious. what a total distortion of the debate. tone and i have only asked that at the least he perform at a bare minimum acceptable level which just has not happened.

Define bare minimum acceptable level.

I will.... More than 2 touches of the footy.
Also people say he was good on the weekend, he had 7 touches in a game of footy against a team on the bottom of the ladder. And no tackles. Now I'm no mathematician but that's less than 2 touches a quarter for a bloke that has a licence to play basically in at least 3/4 of the ground.  In today's footy that's not acceptable even for a big bloke.

Also you say he has only played 32 games, there is a reason for that too. He couldn't get a game in our side SCREAMING out for a KPF to help Jack. They preferred to play McGuane and Edwards over him. Now that speaks for itself.
He has been injured and I except that for part of it but he has been on the list a long time now but delivered very little in those 32 games. To compare him to Rance in anyway shape or form is plain silly.
Good luck to him and I hope he turns it around because make no mistake he needs to.
Stick to your guns Y&BB, there is nothing wrong with supporting the guy but there is also nothing wrong with expecting a lot more from him. 

One question for you- if he wasn't 200cm tall and he couldn't kick 60m, would you still rate him as highly? IMO if you take those two things away, he is O'Hanlon.

Good post