Alex Rance [merged]

[Judge Roughneck]

Not really.Expect Melb footscary saints Brisbane to offer big money. Don't be surprised if he another Schultz. Buy I spose we can suck each other off in our future mutual vindication "oh yes but that game as a 22/year he kicked those two goals, he should have got more possessions"

Meanwhile here we are sitting here, basking in dimma aura of topping full speed ahead - building our core around hampson. Aaron Edwards. Orren. Salivating at the prospect at delisting every young bloke over 6'2 on the list just as Elton Darrou mcintosh."  Loverly.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

and this is what i mean about precious. what a total distortion of the debate. tone and i have only asked that at the least he perform at a bare minimum acceptable level which just has not happened.

Define bare minimum acceptable level.

I will.... More than 2 touches of the footy.
Also people say he was good on the weekend, he had 7 touches in a game of footy against a team on the bottom of the ladder. And no tackles. Now I'm no mathematician but that's less than 2 touches a quarter for a bloke that has a licence to play basically in at least 3/4 of the ground.  In today's footy that's not acceptable even for a big bloke.

Also you say he has only played 32 games, there is a reason for that too. He couldn't get a game in our side SCREAMING out for a KPF to help Jack. They preferred to play McGuane and Edwards over him. Now that speaks for itself.
He has been injured and I except that for part of it but he has been on the list a long time now but delivered very little in those 32 games. To compare him to Rance in anyway shape or form is plain silly.
Good luck to him and I hope he turns it around because make no mistake he needs to.
Stick to your guns Y&BB, there is nothing wrong with supporting the guy but there is also nothing wrong with expecting a lot more from him. 

One question for you- if he wasn't 200cm tall and he couldn't kick 60m, would you still rate him as highly? IMO if you take those two things away, he is O'Hanlon.

Of course I would not. But as the good judge has said he is.
Big tone, you do realise he is 17th in the whole league for contested marks? He rucks quite a bit too so you should include tap outs in his stats. He also does average over 9 possessions per game. The game he had two possessions he was poor but he was subbed off too so didn't play a whole game.

[Andyy]

He also had 12 hitouts and took 5 marks.

No way I'd lose this kid when he's finally showing a bit more. Anybody who can't see it isnt watching properly.

[tony_montana]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

The same could be said of Griff. Played only 32 games and still learning. However big tone and claw are expecting a veteran of 32 games should be tearing it up in the seniors.
How good was Rance after 32 games? How good would he be if he played the majority of his early years with Coburg? Interesting questions....

and this is what i mean about precious. what a total distortion of the debate. tone and i have only asked that at the least he perform at a bare minimum acceptable level which just has not happened.

Define bare minimum acceptable level.

I will.... More than 2 touches of the footy.
Also people say he was good on the weekend, he had 7 touches in a game of footy against a team on the bottom of the ladder. And no tackles. Now I'm no mathematician but that's less than 2 touches a quarter for a bloke that has a licence to play basically in at least 3/4 of the ground.  In today's footy that's not acceptable even for a big bloke.

Also you say he has only played 32 games, there is a reason for that too. He couldn't get a game in our side SCREAMING out for a KPF to help Jack. They preferred to play McGuane and Edwards over him. Now that speaks for itself.
He has been injured and I except that for part of it but he has been on the list a long time now but delivered very little in those 32 games. To compare him to Rance in anyway shape or form is plain silly.
Good luck to him and I hope he turns it around because make no mistake he needs to.
Stick to your guns Y&BB, there is nothing wrong with supporting the guy but there is also nothing wrong with expecting a lot more from him. 

One question for you- if he wasn't 200cm tall and he couldn't kick 60m, would you still rate him as highly? IMO if you take those two things away, he is O'Hanlon.

That was 1 game BT, he had a shocker no qualms about it. Funnily enough he averages about 1.5 possessions less than Vickery who you give a pass mark too. Not much difference at all except one has played about 50 more games so its fair to say I and most people would expect a lot more from Vickery, especially given that Griff has him in tackles, 1%ers and contested marks.

[tony_montana]

He's improved his body work and 1 on 1 contest work substantially now claw, very different to when he was 21 and still learning the caper as well as still developing physically.

i think in the last 3 or so pages ive acknowleged hes improved a few times. for me though i still think hes suspect deep in one key area of a kpds game.

ive continually stated we need another big strong 1v1 kpd it can only make us a better side.
it gets hard having these debates because people get so precious and up in arms.
so what i think he struggles when asked to play deep 1v1. i want a second high quality kpd who is excellent in this area ffs id like another 2 or 3 tall defenders on our list in an attempt to strengthen up this area and build genuine depth.

Claw, I agree with a fair bit of what you say, although with all due respect I find you too black and white with your opinions. Just because Im disagreeing with you, doesn't mean Im up in arms about it.

Astbury showed this season he can be that extra big KPD - now whether injury will alow him to first get back to the consistency he showed this season, and then develop further - next season will tell the tale. The thing that struck me about this season was once he went down Rance stepped up and has done a stirling job deep. Last I'll say about it, but he's improved heaps and is now very competent in all aspects

[the claw]

Claw Astbury looked good in the first 10 games as our big KPD,cant remember are game he got towled up.Question tho if he can stay fit on the park.

i would agree. he has when fit at times shown plenty. im still not sure if hes arrived or will.

like griffiths this bloke was drafted in 09 and has managed just 4 more games than griffiths with 37 ???. hes injury prone and has some deficiencies that are of concern.

look im all for hanging onto nearly all of our talls but i would be looking to off load one of vickery griffiths because of type and the simple fact with mcbean we have 3 of the same.
my preference to trade is clearly vickery who i have never ever really rated. i only mention griffiths as trade because hes uncontracted.

imo and that is all it is i think hanging onto  existing tall fwds is preventing us from looking at and taking more tall fwds and we need different types to the ones we have imo.

id give my right arm to add as a type of tall fwd to our list players like tyler kietel or tom lamb both third tall type fwds.  id also like a mckenzie or mccartin type. pure fwds who have the scope to become power fwds.

id love to add a player like calb marchbank if we went after a defender imo he will become a v good 1v1 tall defender.

all im saying is lets add to what we have and where possible trade players to get a needed type.

[tony_montana]

yep we've been lacking a darling/hammill type 3rd tall for goodness knows how long - as a club we just don't seem to ever take them.

[Judge Roughneck]

Aaron Edwards is rubbish but kind of fits that mode

I would say deledio is not too far off

Next year
 1. Jack
2. Grigg / Vickery
3.  Bean

Deledio isyour 4th forward

[Judge Roughneck]

Best player of the team

[Andyy]

As per claw.

Average player.

GTFO.

Absolute lion.

[WA Tiger]

Absolute stuffing champ, no doubt we would of lost without him, no doubt!!!!!!!

No bike riding for him in the off season...

[Judge Roughneck]

Might be best player in the game. 

[big tone]

Absolute stuffing champ, no doubt we would of lost without him, no doubt!!!!!!!

No bike riding for him in the off season...

Wouldn't have won without Edwards too WA. Played very well.

[WA Tiger]

Absolute stuffing champ, no doubt we would of lost without him, no doubt!!!!!!!

No bike riding for him in the off season...

Wouldn't have won without Edwards too WA. Played very well.

Went well but could of really played better..

[Owl]

Clone him