Author Topic: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?  (Read 16566 times)

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #105 on: February 01, 2009, 10:14:35 PM »
Hey Big Tone,

Is TW totally responsible for his win loss ratio in the last four years.  Does he get any leniency due to the past recruiters/coaches who were responsible for our drafting between 98-03 and hence the list in the years after.

If the tiges make the finals this year will your opinion of TW change or is he still a pig in your rose coloured vision.

However I am glad you can give some slack to Dean Bailey who has inherited a dud list.  That is one dude I feel sorry for.

Offline Stripes

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #106 on: February 01, 2009, 10:40:24 PM »
You're right. TW should have made the finals every year over his coaching tenure. He should have found the best players out there, traded for them with our draft picks, instilled the 'Tigers Spirit of Old' in the list and instill fear back into the opposition clubs immediately! This is what wins premierships doesn't it! Well it did in the glory days didn't it?!  :o

If we want to make the same mistakes we have for the last 27 years, demanding immediate success and not allowing our club to finally form a list that could have a real crack at not only the finals but the flag - then we should be demanding TW head immediately! :P Patience, forget patience we want success now and we want a coach who can wave a magic wand give us the list of fantastic players we need, all of the right age, claiming the flag for the tiger faithful before flying back to wonderland.... ::)


Now back to reality. Premierships are difficult to acquire and getting more and more difficult as the years progress. You can not buy and flag any longer, nor can you expect to obtain one without a hell of a lot of hard work and a sh.ite load of luck. Love him or hate him TW has at least done (or been allowed to do by the administration) what no other Richmond coach has done in 27 years - he has rebuilt the list. This is undeniable, as is his devotion to this goal. The proof is in the turnover of the list in his tenure as in the games he has given the dveloping players.

The argument can be made that he should have gone completely down the rebuilding path - only recruiting youth and never trading in any senior players which may be true but IMO who would educate and protect the developing players?

I want to see success as much as any of you but I do not hold with getting rid of a coach after he is main the reason we find ourselves finally in the place where we can challenge in the future.

I hope we have a great season and TW gets his contract extended so this argument can be put to bed...at least for another year or so  :pray

Regardless I am not going to change many peoples minds here no more than you can change mine but I appreciate the intelligent arguments no the less.

Thanks

Stripes




Offline big tone

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #107 on: February 01, 2009, 10:43:03 PM »
Hi Chuck,

To answer your first question, i don't totally think TW is responsible for his win/loss ratio but after FOUR years he has to take responsibillty for a lot of it. He is the senior coach of our club and has ample time to change things imho. Even our own president only gave him a 5 for his assesment of last year. It has to be finals this year or not good enough for mine. What do you think? Is 5 years and no finals appearances good enough to get him another contract?

On Dean Bailey, and i feel sorry for him too because i think he has a worst list than TW had when he took over but i still think after 5 years if he does not have the Dees playing finals he has failed too. Good luck to him though

Offline big tone

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #108 on: February 01, 2009, 11:10:42 PM »
Hey Stripes,

It seems to me that the only reason you seem to want to keep TW is because he has turned over our list and recruited some young players, but i hate to break it to you but this is how the draft works- you recruit young kids and turn over players that are not up to it. Not rocket sience!
Getting games into kids is just what happens when you draft them and play them.
Not a real good reason to keep a coach even if we have had a bad 27 years prior.

And when you decide to go with a youth policy, you go with a youth policy, not sway from it when you feel like it. Again he has made some mistakes. He has tried it to many times for me not to bring it up again.
 
Anyway Stripes if you do have one of those magic wands please give it one almighty wave and lets all enjoy the year to come!

Go Tiges!!

Offline mat073

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #109 on: February 01, 2009, 11:50:57 PM »
What I love about the team at the moment is that there are atleast a dozen players in the 21-24 age group all comming through togeather.These guys are all in our best 22.Plus we have the best 18yo in the country.
TW has done a geat job fixing the midfield and the backline......and the seeds have been planted in the forward line.
Can anyone remember the last time we have had the depth and competion for places.(well on paper anyway).
I cant,then again I have only been barracking for the last 29 years.
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Offline Mr Magic

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #110 on: February 02, 2009, 03:03:32 AM »
You're right. TW should have made the finals every year over his coaching tenure. He should have found the best players out there, traded for them with our draft picks, instilled the 'Tigers Spirit of Old' in the list and instill fear back into the opposition clubs immediately! This is what wins premierships doesn't it! Well it did in the glory days didn't it?!  :o

I am not saying that and I don't see many who are. That's your impression.
I for one did not expect finals in year 1 and 2 and could quite happily have worn the pain a wooden spoon or even two had Wallace made truly tough decisions on our playing list. Sadly of course he didn't and he only pruned the edges of the obvious duds.
Bravo Terry, anyone could have made those decisions, pity you didn't cut a whole heap deeper and make some truly hard calls.

Again 3 draft picks in 2005. Hello!
No doubt in mine and many folks minds that Wallace overachieved in the first two years and had a distorted view of the list. This was indicated by continuing to play footballers who had let other coaches down before him previously thinking he could turn them into something that they weren't.

Terry's ego believed that he could play finals with the core of the playing list whilst rebuilding.
Essentially he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
All the rhetoric out of the club at the time was that it was felt that senior players 'deserved' to somehow play in finals and that we had to remain competitive. Unfortunately we just wallowed in mediocrity in '05/'06 until the poo finally hit the fan in 2007 and Terry finally woke up to himself that he had to call time on some old Tiger stalwarts.

Hindsight ;) indicates this had to happen much earlier. Big deal if we came last, we'd have picked up the number one draft picks as consolation. Wallace erred. Going for Kent Kingsley on the verge of 2007 had me tearing my hair out. If ever there was a shortsighted decision it was that one. It highlighted to me where Wallace thought we were at. We were soon to find out how badly he'd misjudged it.

Still in 2007, after a disastrous start again saw finals out of the question, at least Wallace did finally wake up to himself & make the tough calls. Fortunately enough it meant we were able to pick up young gun Cotchin.
Better late than never I guess but a shame we wasted two years. Lucky for Terry though he was given 5 years and not 3 to 'rebuild'.

I always think of the journey Mark Thompson took as mimicing TW coaching voyage through no accident of course. I'm sure everyone is well versed on the history of the rebuilding Geelong took during the 7 years Thompson had and how close he came to being sacked over the journey but most notably the year before they won the flag. Now why I'm under no illusions that we will win the GF within the next 2 years, the rebirth process of the club has definite parrallels because, of course, TW used the Geelong process as a model to first claim the Tiger coaching position and then attempt to reform the list.

I hate the Geelong comparison with our situation. Hate it. Our rebuild has followed Geelong's how exactly?
For starters Thompson made the finals in his first couple of years and has never won a wooden spoon.
These are bald facts although I am sure someone will try to spin it up as I have seen previously in this thread.
Thompson has built a side of big, strong bodies and angled towards a younger demographic.
Our team is based largely of unproven young, lightweight speeders with a core of rapidly aging champs who are still integral to our performances. It's getting better the last couple of seasons I'll admit but it's been a bumpy road. I am still unconvinced our kips can step up to fill the breach in a couple of key areas.

No to say that TW is being 'kept away from building our list' would be a bit of a stretch and even a tad niave IMHO. TW did not have as big of a say, I'll grant you, during last draft but all senior coaches have a big imput into recruitment. Whatever happens from this point on TW has been intricial to the development of the list and will take some of the glory and all of the blame depending on the outcome.

Tad naive huh?
No doubt in my mind that Wallace's input in the list building processes has been significantly reduced upon Miller's departure. Bear in mind Wallace has a history of having little input in recruiting, it's the recycled players he has brought to the club where he has had more of an impact.
M Graham, P Bowden, Kingsley & finally McMahon for 19 was the straw that broke the camels back for Terry's power plays and where he probably still a part of the process, his influence will have been greatly reduced in the current setup.
Finally we now have someone who's there to make Wallace accountable for the decisions that are made by the club regarding recycled players we select.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 03:21:38 AM by Mr Magic »

Offline dereel-tiger

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #111 on: February 02, 2009, 09:01:32 AM »
When Wallace took over from Joyce at the Bulldogs ,he inherited an excellent list.
A list which should of played in a grand final,or at least won one,as far as lm concerned he under achieved.

He left the Bulldogs list in a mess which took a few years to get over.

I think it was stripes who said Terry was adaptable and innovative.(your kidding)
Terrys game plan does not work with the list we have,yet he still persists with it.
I would not call that being adaptable.
As for being innovative ,he has done a couple of things in 4 years .
The chipping around the back line farce  did win us the crows game,but also created bad habits which has cost us quite a few matches.

The game plan we play is quite predictable,because it has hardly changed in 4 years.
Personally l think we need a coach who understands the list we have,and who can plan a game plan to suit the structure.
Not someone who expects a young team to play like veterans.

Offline Smokey

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #112 on: February 02, 2009, 09:16:21 AM »
Hey Stripes, it will be very interesting to hear all these opinions in September after we win a final or 2.  For me, I think Wallace has done a very good job in very trying circumstances.  He has made mistakes but so do premiership coaches, all coaches, and in the whole I think he has shown a lot of courage to stick with a plan at a club that has a perception of sacking coaches for failing to gain immediate success.  He will live or die by the team's performance this year and personally I think you all need to get used to him coaching for another couple of years.

Offline Smokey

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #113 on: February 02, 2009, 09:27:49 AM »
It's also interesting to read this thread against the 2009 Crystal Ball thread.  Of the 16 posts so far, only 1 has us not making the 8.  That would mean in 5 years we have almost completely turned over our list and taken this new list to the finals.  If the predictions come true it will be pretty hard to argue with that simple fact.

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #114 on: February 02, 2009, 11:25:27 AM »
Terrys game plan does not work with the list we have,yet he still persists with it.
I would not call that being adaptable.
As for being innovative ,he has done a couple of things in 4 years .
The chipping around the back line farce  did win us the crows game,but also created bad habits which has cost us quite a few matches.

The game plan we play is quite predictable,because it has hardly changed in 4 years.
Personally l think we need a coach who understands the list we have,and who can plan a game plan to suit the structure.
Not someone who expects a young team to play like veterans.

How can you fault our performance in the second half of 2008, our list is developing well and playing exciting fast football.  You are only as good as your last performance and at the moment we are doing well.  Of course if that doesnt continue in 2009 then there are issues that will need to be addressed.

You dont want to see our 2008 game plan carried into 2009, I think you are the one who doesnt understand our list.  We are not going to beat big bodied sides, Swans, Norths, Adelaide until our youngsters are allowed to develop and mature in body.

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #115 on: February 02, 2009, 11:35:11 AM »
What do you think? Is 5 years and no finals appearances good enough to get him another contract?


Defintely not, finals is a must for 2009, as Stripes has said just about everyone agrees with that.

With the rebuild and allowances he has had with his first five years I also want to see finals in 2010 and 2011.

The issue I have is that the first real test for TW is in 2009 and until that year is done we cant judge him on the first three years.  Until the pudding is cooked there is no proof in it.

Offline mat073

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #116 on: February 02, 2009, 03:34:27 PM »
I would just like to point out that when joyce was coach of the bulldogs......they lost the first two games of the 96 season by a combined 220 points.From memory they sacked Joyce midyear and won only 5 1/2 games for the year.They finished only above fitzroy(one win)
After being rolled by freo in the opening round of 1997 TWs bulldogs were on top of the ladder after round 14 and went within a bees d##k of making the GF.In 1998 the bulldogs were in the top 2 of the ladder the whole year.Played their worst game of the year when it mattered most.They finished 4th at the end of the home & away season in 99.Only team to beat Essendon in 2000.

Was he suppose to take a list that lost the last 14 games of the year in 2004 and have us 3 times defending premiers by now ?
I would lke to see him finish what he started
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Offline Smokey

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #117 on: February 02, 2009, 04:09:29 PM »

Until the pudding is cooked there is no proof in it.


I like that one Chuck.  Is there a licence on it or is it freeware?   ;D

Offline Chuck17

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2009, 04:35:18 PM »
I like that one Chuck.  Is there a licence on it or is it freeware?   ;D

LOL, no haven't trademarked it yet Smokey

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Age Poll: Will Terry Wallace be coaching Richmond in 2010?
« Reply #119 on: February 02, 2009, 11:35:23 PM »
I am a little surprised at the emphasis/concentration on the "must play finals in 2009 to get a contract extension" line. What the Board should be considering first and foremost is whether Wallace has the skills to complete the development of the squad into a consistent finals performer. If he doesn't have the skills then this is his last year regardless of ladder position. If we do consider he has the skills then the question is - is he the best available to further develop the squad from other available options? Only if he is the very best option then we give him another contract and we then base the performance reviews on ladder positions
While I think there's no excuse for missing the finals this year barring a mass list of injuries to our best players, I agree with you Gracie. There are far more important variables to what decides whether Wallace is the best coach to take us forward than just ladder position. As I just said what happens if like the doggies in 2007 we have 4 key mids go down with ACLs and we just miss the finals - does Wallace go? On ladder position then the answer is yes. What happens if we repeat 2008 yet Jack or Kel kick that one goal against the Saints which sneaks us into 8th spot despite another poor record against the top 8 sides - does Wallace go? On ladder position the answer is no. The judgement should be on the state of the list at the end of this season, its further scope for further improvement and development, its ability to match the top sides, and whether the Club believes Wallace is the man to take the team post 2009 consistently into finals and eventually to a flag. We know all too well ladder positions can be fool's gold. 

The emphasis on "must play finals in 2009" comes from March and Board publicly making it the emphasis and making it 'the' criteria on which Wallace will be judged at least in the media and public's eyes. He even said which round a judgement will be made - rounds 14-15 :-\. A big boo-boo on March's part when that sort of thing should be kept inside the boardroom and footy dept. As long as Wallace and the footy dept know what the expectations are from the Board then that is all who needs to know. How can you state when you will make a decision on the coach's future 6 months prior to the start of the season  ???. Poor and naive PR from the Prez who caved into pushy media questioning at the time.
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