Author Topic: Trouble is brewing  (Read 57810 times)

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #255 on: September 30, 2004, 04:50:00 PM »
PS: Can anyone tell me how much of the $2mil loss was due to poker machine revenue going down as a result of the Vic govt's decision to ban smoking?

Froars,

The accounts for 2004 have not been finalised - the club's financial years doesn't finish until 31/10/04. So until they are relased probably late December we wont know how much of the loss can be contributed to the gaming venues.

Last year (2003) gaming revenue was down on budget by $400K and our loss was $881K. Last years accounts also said that since 2001 gaming revenue had reduced by $645k

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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #256 on: September 30, 2004, 04:50:27 PM »
They are both flawed and probably as bad as one another, if we really get down to it.  But what good would any of that do?

I'd guess people are just demanding a higher class of candidate given the standard of board members in the past has not be up to the task of leading our Club forward. Maybe in this election it's a futile demand given the choice but maybe over time by making board members and wannabee boards members accountable we can lift the standard and attract better people instead of leaving vacancies to those with egos.

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In the event that one of these parties, or a combination of the two, is going to play a part on the RFC Board, then the only way I can see out of this is to determine who has the capacity and ability to take us into the future.  Clearly, that's how you think MT. :thumbsup

 :thumbsup

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The fact that people stuffed up in the past isn’t reason enough to suggest they are incapable of taking us forward, is it?  Especially if they show the ability to change and get into action to quickly and effectively get things done.

That's true TS but I guess what I was trying to say is if these people continually make the same mistakes and don't appear to show the ablility to change or resist change despite blind freddy knowing what needs to change then I think it's safe to say they aren't the people to take us forward. Spud being an example of that.

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I don’t see how a decision can be reached by determining who has committed the least number of sins, because that’s never going to help us in the future.  But their ability to bring about change and make things happen, quickly and effectively can.

Agree TS.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

froars

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #257 on: September 30, 2004, 04:53:13 PM »
Thanks WP, that's a lot of money, and really, out of anyone's control - and i think most clubs suffered the same result.
Doesn't excuse the $2 mil+ projected loss, but certainly explains a fair chunk of it!

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #258 on: September 30, 2004, 04:57:27 PM »
Thanks WP, that's a lot of money, and really, out of anyone's control - and i think most clubs suffered the same result.

You're right froars other clubs have suffered as well. I know it cut into the Doggies and the Bombers.

It also cut into the state government coffers too - I remember reading that the Govts tax collection from pokies dropped by over 55% after they bought in the smoking legislation :lol
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #259 on: September 30, 2004, 04:59:03 PM »
The ability to learn from our mistakes determines how quickly we progress froars.

The blinkered vision of these people on alternative tickets shows they have no idea about learning from past mistakes, because they are trying to resolve issues in the same way as they have been created for the past 24 years.

So if Schwab and co got in they wouldn’t realise this, they would continue to make the same decisions and mistakes that have been made in the past, because they lack vision, foresight and are inflexible in their thinking.

It’s taken us all this time to work out how to stop making the same mistakes over and over again.  It’s taken Casey and Miller less than 5 years to make any significant changes here, yet we’ve been making them for over two decades.  They put a stop to it by not taking any notice of outside influences, factions, people in the background and all the doomsayers.

They have commenced to create the changes we badly need and some people don’t like it and no doubt have their noses out of joint because of it.  Good on them I say, because at least now we have been able to attract a coach such as Terry Wallace.  They can continue to make further inroads if people wake up to the fact that it’s people like Schwab and co who are living in the past, trying to resolve things by old methods that have never worked previously, but just perpetuate mediocrity.  It’s thinking like theirs that has seen us become such a rabble for so long.

And it’s a new way of thinking that gives us hope.
Everything that is done in this world is done by hope.  --Martin Luther

The time you enjoy wasting isn’t wasted time.

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #260 on: September 30, 2004, 05:05:26 PM »
If we did vote along those lilnes [ed. individually], Casey, Schwab ,Welsh and Macek wouldn't have a snowball's if i had my say.

I'm in the same boat as froars. Please no failed ex-board members!

Those who were and want to be on the board due to their footy experience haven't played football for 20 years and before the modern footy environment and its pressures existed. They show(ed) no understanding of the key aspects of modern footy - attracting a top CEO, attracting a top coach, recruiting top young players via the draft, having a TPP that rewards individual performances realistically yet provides team depth - until now (despite the jury still being out in some regards as time will tell).


What? Are you claiming Casey does understand these things?

Attracting a top CEO? Are you referring to Ian Campbell or Steve Wright who's been there for all of 5 minutes?

Attracting a top coach? Did they bother to interview Michael Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy? You can make that claim when Wallace wins his first granny, hopefully with us. Until then he's the coach Sydney didnt want.

Which top young players were recruited whilst Casey has been there? I can tell you which top young players we missed out on in preference for hacks like Hudson, Sziller, Marsh, Fletcher......

And we have been at the ceiling of our player payment quota paying thse hacks to win 7 games a year in 2002, 7 games in 2003 and the wooden spoon in 2004. And its cost us $2m in losses.

Who has been in charge whilst all this has been going on????




Jackstar

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #261 on: September 30, 2004, 05:06:01 PM »
I have a suggestion 1980, you do better !

froars

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #262 on: September 30, 2004, 05:10:56 PM »
Well most of those are football related matters 1980.  I'd say Welsh, as a former footballer and DIRECTOR OF FOOTBALL, would have had a pretty heavy say in some of those decisions.  Do you not question his abilities?
In fact, most of the problems that have faced the RFC can be all traced back to onfield performance.  Do you trust Welsh to try again and repeat the same errors?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2004, 05:26:47 PM by froars »

Offline mightytiges

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #263 on: September 30, 2004, 06:06:51 PM »
What? Are you claiming Casey does understand these things?

1980 if you re-read my post again you'll see Casey's name listed along with the others who didn't understand. You'll also see that I said the decisions needed to move our Club forward haven't been made until now (past two months).

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Attracting a top CEO? Are you referring to Ian Campbell or Steve Wright who's been there for all of 5 minutes?

Attracting a top coach? Did they bother to interview Michael Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy? You can make that claim when Wallace wins his first granny, hopefully with us. Until then he's the coach Sydney didnt want.

The current board overruled Leighton Wood getting the job automatically after what happened with Ian Campbell and appointed Wright instead after a interview process. I also said the jury is still out but signs are promising. Campbell was also appointed while Schwab and Welsh were on the board. Same goes for Brayshaw.

As for the coach. 5 years ago no one wanted to coach us. Malthouse and Thomson laughed at us. Sheedy said no to once again boost his contract as Essendon. Even Peter Schwab said no. Spud got the gig by default.

If we didn't remove that stupid clause and honoured Frawley's contract in full no matter how painful and sacked him we'd be back in the same boat.

You can't deny we got the best bloke available. Yes time will tell as I said. A flag is 4-5 years away at the very least even if we had Sheedy or Matthews. Once again signs from Wallace are promising.

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Which top young players were recruited whilst Casey has been there? I can tell you which top young players we missed out on in preference for hacks like Hudson, Sziller, Marsh, Fletcher......

Yes we picked up those duds under the current admin (including Casey, Schwab and Welsh)

You can add giving up pick 8 and 24 for Hilton and Bidders. Add to that Sampson, Robbie Powell, ... oops that was the previous admin (including Macek)

Rectifying this lunacy didn't begin until last year's draft and even then we gave up our first round pick. We have 3 picks (soon to be more) in the top 20. Add these top kids to the Cogs, Newmans, Jacksons, etc and we're on our way to buidling and developing our own quality players and in numbers.

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And we have been at the ceiling of our player payment quota paying thse hacks to win 7 games a year in 2002, 7 games in 2003 and the wooden spoon in 2004. And its cost us $2m in losses.

Big bucks for Daffy, Knights, Cambo and Richo when we going to finish 13th after not making the finals for 4 years ...oops the previous admin again (including Macek and Schwab)

Big bucks for Holland, Gas and Otto under current admin (including Casey, Schwab and Welsh).

Once again we did not begin to rectify this until now. Yes we've been deluding ourselves for 20+ years and it's taken a $2 million loss and a wooden spoon to the make the whole Club realise we've been kidding ourselves all this time. In 5 years time we'll be saying thank god for season 2004!

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Who has been in charge whilst all this has been going on????

Casey, Macek, Schwab, Welsh, ...... and basically every board for the past 20+ years. Argubly the cutural rot began eariler with the dismissal of Hafey after he lead us to 4 flags in 10 years.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Jackstar

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #264 on: September 30, 2004, 06:25:29 PM »
Macek a leader ???
he would be better suited calling the numbers at the local bingo

froars

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #265 on: September 30, 2004, 07:48:14 PM »
Well said MT  :bow

Offline Tiger Spirit

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #266 on: October 01, 2004, 12:47:39 PM »
Tiger - I guess somebody has to keep you honest - might as well be me  ;D

ps - I'm not necessarily supporting the Schwab group - just like to see some balance

Ok then RonB.  I’m up for the challenge.  Let me put it to you this way and feel free to let me know if my views are unbalanced. ;)

The RFC constitution, without going into it too much, you would think, was put in place to give the Club workable guidelines by which to operate, regardless of its administrators and in fairness to its members.  In this way, those with the privilege of being appointed to the Board, by the Members, could make decisions for and on behalf of them.

However, for a number of years now, and for whatever reason, our footy club seems to have all but ignored that constitution and way of running things.  Two or three elections in two decades perhaps points to how undemocratic this footy Club has become.  The reason for that seems to be that we members don’t have any trust in the system put in place to do its job, or just don’t understand why it is there.  And just seem content to allow rebels to dictate terms for us and have our say for us.

Even though, if followed, we can ensure that our Board is run democratically, whereby the Club’s members, each year, have the opportunity to nominate for the Board and/or vote others on and off the Board.

Instead of following these simple and effective guidelines that take away the ego factor associated with rebel groups and others, members have unwittingly allowed such people, to take matters into their own hands.  On members’ behalf, so they tell us, because they weren’t elected by us, they decide they know what we want and can do better, far more quickly than any guidelines can allow.  The fact that none of them has ever had any success doesn’t seem to deter them or us from following them.

The reason people take this course of action and allow it is because they lack trust and if we wake up and realise why we continue to make the same mistakes, time and again, then we can finally put a stop to it.  Because by having people who lack trust run our footy Club, we invite more of the same people to it.  And so we will never attract the sort of people we want on the Board.  Before dismissing any of this as just aimless ramble, be assured that, without trust, our footy Club can achieve nothing of significance.  As evidenced by our recent past.  And if we give these people credence then we only have ourselves to blame for the situation we continually find ourselves in.

One way to change that is to ignore the calls from any alternative tickets, rebel groups and whatever else out there wanting to intervene and make decisions without going through the proper procedures and should be treated with the contempt they deserve.  Because these people, driven by ego and a lack of trust represent everything we don’t want in the people running our footy Club.

They think they know and can do better.  But, simply because they have taken this course of action and without them needing to do anything, we know that they cannot do what they say they will do.  Because, first and foremost, they lack trust.  They can preach and hot gospel all they like.  The simple fact is that their lack of faith gives them 0% chance of bringing meaningful, significant and sustained success to this Club.

This is merely stating a fact of life that, without trust, there are no solid foundations upon which success or anything can be built.  (Upon the foundations of trust you can build anything and all it takes to destroy it is ego.  Just ask the Brisbane Lions).

If we revert to running things as they should be and as they are at other well run clubs then we can easily straighten things up and ensure that, in the future, people will nominate for the Richmond Board for all the right reasons, so that we can have an even chance at success.

We have a choice as to how we want the future to be.  And it is very easy to predict that future.  All we need do is see what we are doing now to change things, because that determines what the future will be like.

If we continue to allow RFC to be ruled by people in the background and those who think they know better, but only serve to continually railroad the Club and further mire it where it is then we can be assured of more of the mediocrity we have become associated with.

The only real alternative is to put our faith in the system, however boring, dull, uninspiring and simple that seems.  That system is there for a very good reason.  And those who put it there knew what they were doing and had the faith in it that we need to regain, before we can achieve anything to be proud of.

If anyone has the opportunity, read Miller’s letter to Pahoff, it will make the point better than I can and might mean a bit more.
Everything that is done in this world is done by hope.  --Martin Luther

The time you enjoy wasting isn’t wasted time.

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #267 on: October 01, 2004, 01:10:12 PM »
I have a suggestion 1980, you do better !

I know my limitations, and Casey should know his. If not before he took the job, now that he's been at it for 5 years.

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #268 on: October 01, 2004, 01:17:28 PM »
Macek a leader ???
he would be better suited calling the numbers at the local bingo

Macek: founded County investment management; $14b in funds, sold it for 100m to Invesco a couple of years ago. Currently director at Telstra and Wesfarmers.

And you're saying he's better suited to the local bingo. Laughable.

And which boards do you sit on?   

Offline 1980

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Re: Trouble is brewing
« Reply #269 on: October 01, 2004, 01:57:25 PM »
What? Are you claiming Casey does understand these things?

1980 if you re-read my post again you'll see Casey's name listed along with the others who didn't understand. You'll also see that I said the decisions needed to move our Club forward haven't been made until now (past two months).

Quote
Attracting a top CEO? Are you referring to Ian Campbell or Steve Wright who's been there for all of 5 minutes?

Attracting a top coach? Did they bother to interview Michael Malthouse or Kevin Sheedy? You can make that claim when Wallace wins his first granny, hopefully with us. Until then he's the coach Sydney didnt want.

The current board overruled Leighton Wood getting the job automatically after what happened with Ian Campbell and appointed Wright instead after a interview process. I also said the jury is still out but signs are promising. Campbell was also appointed while Schwab and Welsh were on the board. Same goes for Brayshaw.

As for the coach. 5 years ago no one wanted to coach us. Malthouse and Thomson laughed at us. Sheedy said no to once again boost his contract as Essendon. Even Peter Schwab said no. Spud got the gig by default.

If we didn't remove that stupid clause and honoured Frawley's contract in full no matter how painful and sacked him we'd be back in the same boat.

You can't deny we got the best bloke available. Yes time will tell as I said. A flag is 4-5 years away at the very least even if we had Sheedy or Matthews. Once again signs from Wallace are promising.

Quote
Which top young players were recruited whilst Casey has been there? I can tell you which top young players we missed out on in preference for hacks like Hudson, Sziller, Marsh, Fletcher......

Yes we picked up those duds under the current admin (including Casey, Schwab and Welsh)

You can add giving up pick 8 and 24 for Hilton and Bidders. Add to that Sampson, Robbie Powell, ... oops that was the previous admin (including Macek)

Rectifying this lunacy didn't begin until last year's draft and even then we gave up our first round pick. We have 3 picks (soon to be more) in the top 20. Add these top kids to the Cogs, Newmans, Jacksons, etc and we're on our way to buidling and developing our own quality players and in numbers.

Quote
And we have been at the ceiling of our player payment quota paying thse hacks to win 7 games a year in 2002, 7 games in 2003 and the wooden spoon in 2004. And its cost us $2m in losses.

Big bucks for Daffy, Knights, Cambo and Richo when we going to finish 13th after not making the finals for 4 years ...oops the previous admin again (including Macek and Schwab)

Big bucks for Holland, Gas and Otto under current admin (including Casey, Schwab and Welsh).

Once again we did not begin to rectify this until now. Yes we've been deluding ourselves for 20+ years and it's taken a $2 million loss and a wooden spoon to the make the whole Club realise we've been kidding ourselves all this time. In 5 years time we'll be saying thank god for season 2004!

Quote
Who has been in charge whilst all this has been going on????

Casey, Macek, Schwab, Welsh, ...... and basically every board for the past 20+ years. Argubly the cutural rot began eariler with the dismissal of Hafey after he lead us to 4 flags in 10 years.

Well, you're persisting on grouping Casey, Welsh, Swab and conveniently ommitting that the reason Swab and Welsh left the board is because they claim they had no input into and insight of decisions, and Casey made all the decisions on his own without consulting the rest of the board.

You're entitled to not believe them, but this is the reason they've given for leaving the Casey board and challenging it.

I for one believe that Casey has been running the place at his own whim, which is why I will vote against him.