IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]

[Stripes]

But IMO, the problems that we have now have much more to do with what we do with players once they are drafted than how high our draft picks are.

My dad used to say - 'You can't make strawberry jam out of horse manure son'. Let's just say I kept him away from my toast at all costs!  

But all the same his point is a valid one. If I went down to the club with a few of my mates and we were trained together play as the new Richmond team, to fight for each other, to shepherd, block and never give up etc etc. To build a strong culture, we would still lose every game by 200 points(if we're lucky!). Why? Well because we haven't the talent.

We need to get the raw talent into the club first before we can hope to develop a winning culture in the team. Will a group of average players play better with the type of development, support and team focus you refer to - you bet they will but the question remains will this be good enough? If we get more quality talent into the team with high draft picks we can then develop the same culture and club focus you refer to but with much greater results.

Right now we need a strong foundation to build from and without quality young players to form our core, whatever development/culture we create can only go so far regardless of the club culture.

We need the draft AND we need to change our culture.... but the draft is the first step.

Stripes

[Ramps]

Just my opinion but the Club should get rid of the 4 senior blokes - not including Richo or Cousins, unless of course Richo retires or Cousins does an injury in that case the 6 should retire en masse. The savings should go towards paying for a couple of extra full time development coaches adding onto what we already have and trying to get a Balme to Richmond as Football Operations Manager.

[mat073]

                                       Hypothetical Question Time

I realise that most likely we are going to be blown off the park against the inform dogs.......But "WHAT IF"

On Friday night the Tigers play at a level not seen in 09.The quality of their play has Bruce & Dennis describing it as SORCERY.We go goal for goal with our much fancied opponents.

Dying seconds....Richmond down by 2pts....Jack Marks 45 m out......siren goes.

Would you want Jack to.... (A) Kick the winning goal  OR
                                     (B) Miss and score a behind

Love to hear the opinions of Pro-Tankers and Anti-Tankers.....I know my heart would be ruling my brain.                                

[camboon]

I usually pick against the Tiges this year but I am happy to see them win (hopefully not more the 4).

My answer would be I would be happy to see Richmond win if we were playing all our kids.

[cub]

Spoken to Balmey, he is a true tiger and pretty sure he would love to be back. How come we didn't try before he went to Geelong has me  ??? the usual bad judgment and missing the boat.

Regards the Tank, may as well forget it guys we are gunna win more than 50 % of our games from here on which will give us 8 wins + guarenteed.

[FooffooValve]

My dad used to say - 'You can't make strawberry jam out of horse manure son'. Let's just say I kept him away from my toast at all costs!  

We need to get the raw talent into the club first before we can hope to develop a winning culture in the team.

You can easily make manure out of strawberry jam though.

Worrying about the raw talent first before the culture is putting the cart before the horse. You can bring in all the raw talent you like, but induct them into a poor culture and they will fit right in.

I firmly believe that if we'd drafted Franklin ahead of Tambling, with our current culture, he'd be playing for Coburg or in and out of the side like Riewoldt, or inconsistent like Tambling.

No, it is far far far more important to start fixing our broken culture than worrying about losing games to finish higher in the draft. Of course, we must participate in the draft, up to our necks. Nobody is suggesting that the draft isn't important. But it is only as important as all the other components that make up our culture.

[Smokey]

My dad used to say - 'You can't make strawberry jam out of horse manure son'. Let's just say I kept him away from my toast at all costs!  

We need to get the raw talent into the club first before we can hope to develop a winning culture in the team.

You can easily make manure out of strawberry jam though.

Worrying about the raw talent first before the culture is putting the cart before the horse. You can bring in all the raw talent you like, but induct them into a poor culture and they will fit right in.

I firmly believe that if we'd drafted Franklin ahead of Tambling, with our current culture, he'd be playing for Coburg or in and out of the side like Riewoldt, or inconsistent like Tambling.

No, it is far far far more important to start fixing our broken culture than worrying about losing games to finish higher in the draft. Of course, we must participate in the draft, up to our necks. Nobody is suggesting that the draft isn't important. But it is only as important as all the other components that make up our culture.

Yep.  And fear of losing is just as important as anything else.

[Stripes]

This is a bit of a 'chicken and egg' or tank v winning culture argument we have going on here.  

Firstly I argue completely with you regarding the desperate need we have for changing our club culture, developing a team orientated game plan, focusing on structures and accountability...but I just don't agree with you regarding the timing.

Now is not the time to start changing the club, game plan etc when in a few months we will have a new coach with a new style, focus, ideas and leadership. Why would we want to change everything immediately, turn the place on its head, create club goals/focus etc only to have it all turned on its head with the inclusion of a new coach?

In addition, finishing down the bottom does not create a losing attitude otherwise the Lions would never have won 3 flags in a row, the Hawks one last year, the Saints be unbeaten and even Geelong be so dominant for so long. All of these team have had their time at the bottom and built up good young list before they then created the type of winning culture we are so desperate need at Tigerland.

Right now we need the cattle to work with more than the culture. Players such as Bling, Polo and even JON    etc are not lost in terms of culture and development. With a new coach, development focus and support they can still realize their potential but does it need to happen immediately when wins will only damage our draft chances....???

On a side note, I am becoming more and more convinced that we will win 5/6 games this season and make this argument defunk. The players all talk about winning and turning the season around and a caretaker coach will be keen to make a name for themselves so I think you will get the wins you want Fooman.

At just what cost winning will be to us at this stage of our rebuilding and development to our future can only be judged later.  

Stripes

PS Chuck - I support with my heart while the game is being played but head otherwise.  

[FooffooValve]

Now is not the time to start changing the club, game plan etc when in a few months we will have a new coach with a new style, focus, ideas and leadership. Why would we want to change everything immediately, turn the place on its head, create club goals/focus etc only to have it all turned on its head with the inclusion of a new coach?

Who said anything about changing the game plan or whatever?

What I'm saying is that whatever sides we select for the remainder of the season should be asked to prepare to win like they've never prepared before. As thoroughly and as professionally as they humanly can. If we win, great. If we lose, well at least we did everything we could to improve ourselves. What new coach wouldn't want that?

We get too fixated on draft picks, or on the coach (saviour), or the next champion, and lose sight of the fact that we need to distribute our resources and, more importantly, attitudes across every corner of the organisation. We need to put our eggs in all baskets. We need to ask every employee of the RFC to do all he/she can to improve his/her performance, every board member, every trainer, every bootstudder. Not just to improve, but work towards being the absolute best in their field. We need to recruit the right people on field and off field, and we need to develop them and bring them into and help us create the culture that trickles down to everyone, including the playing group.

Forget about tanking. It is a massive red herring.

[Danog]

As for that hypothetical, I'd want Jack to kick the goal.  Not so much for the win, but for the fact that missing would destroy Jack's confidence.

[Ox]

First thing we do to change the culture,before drafting,is,
sack all the lagging dogs.

Identify and make an example of them.

Johnson,Simmonds and all the weak rats that "just couldn't stand to play under terry" anymore,
forcing the club into public embarrassment and once again, the laughing stock of professional sports.
These are the ones who put themselves before the club,clearly as they genuinely are selfish individuals,willing to lay blame for their own misgivings on anyone but themselves.
That would take responsibility.

A sign that they have not yet dealt with it is a sign that our management is insipid,forever catering to the players and their clueless aspirations.

Make an example of these bufoons and then come talk to me.

[Infamy]

We have had far more success on average with the rookie draft than we have with the Nation Draft. I wonder if the two drafts were the responsibility of two different recruiters?

I do agree although it's a bit of a false economy when we have to play our late and rookie draft picks due to our early picks failing so often.

Trades such as the ones made for Polak, McMahon, Thomson, Hislop are the most harming given they were made with relatively high picks.

Polak was only a downgrade of a pick and we got the player we were after anyway. McMahon was a disasterous trade and I never agreed with it. Thomson I also think we over paid for, but not by that much. Hislop as a 4th rounder I have no problem with, although it wasn't a trade.

[Judge Roughneck]

                                      Hypothetical Question Time

I realise that most likely we are going to be blown off the park against the inform dogs.......But "WHAT IF"

On Friday night the Tigers play at a level not seen in 09.The quality of their play has Bruce & Dennis describing it as SORCERY.We go goal for goal with our much fancied opponents.

Dying seconds....Richmond down by 2pts....Jack Marks 45 m out......siren goes.

Would you want Jack to.... (A) Kick the winning goal  OR
                                     (B) Miss and score a behind

Love to hear the opinions of Pro-Tankers and Anti-Tankers.....I know my heart would be ruling my brain.                                

I would hope miss.

[camboon]

Now let me get my head around it.

We are going to lose a lot of older and players (8to10) who arnt up to it at the end of the year anyway, so I guess alot of you are saying is that we should finish 9th or 10th then get a whole lot of late draft picks or heaven forbid rejects from other side to replace the guys that are cut. We also dont put the required experince into the kids so they take longer to develop just so we can win 8 games. Correct me if I'm wrong but as a rule the top 10 picks generally make it and the further you go the less likely they will.

We have some good kids but we need more!

This is why I was hoping Terry was going to hang around as he had nothing to lose by developing the list.

[Ox]

but the dogs cried and got wallet sacked....