Author Topic: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]  (Read 45579 times)

Offline Infamy

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #435 on: July 17, 2009, 06:06:52 PM »
Again problem lies within the resources for scouting.

Should go far and beyond to scot for 30 plus players that are draftable not a handful.

We don't get our wanted picks and we make rash decisions like Oakly Nicholls who should have gone pick 20+
JON was not a rash decision, Francis Jackson loved him, Miller did too. At the draft night when asked who's pick he was Miller joked that if he failed he was Francis' and if he was a success then he was his, although that may have been the other way around.

The rest of the football world rated Hurn.
Stupid comment
If that was the case, then why did he slip to Pick 13?

Why di Rich go @ 7?

Hurn was seen as a stand out.
Slipping to 13 is twice as far as Rich slipping to 7
Regardless, a few rated Hurn highly, almost everyone who didn't have a Top 6 pick rated Rich as Top 2

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #436 on: July 17, 2009, 09:55:04 PM »

From memory we wanted Ryder, JON or IIRC Dempsey in that order. Who said 2 out of 3 ain't bad  :P. Miller didn't rate Clarke as a top 10 pick. Kennedy, Dowler and Ryder were his 1st round talls. Clarke was rated on par with Cleve as late 1st/early 2nd round talls.
They preferred Dowler and Ryder, but they were taken immediately before. It was Varcoe that they rated next, but they ended up passing on him because of a negative medical report about his foot.Dempsey was a consideration, but they rated JON above him.
They didn't want Mitch Clark because of so-called character and "attitude" issues.
Ta for the memory filler GB. You're right Varcoe was the 3rd one along with Ryder and JON. I knew Dempsey fitted in somewhere in that puzzle. We knew Dowler would most likely be gone before our pick even after he was in that car accident so with Ryder picked just before our pick it was JON we were going to pick up  :P.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #437 on: July 17, 2009, 10:12:51 PM »
Everyone rated JON highly because of his impressive sprints and results from the academy, i remember reading in one forum they were saying he was going to be the next Judd  :lol Anyway, their is a degree of luck with every pick, shame it didnt work out for JON, I dont even think he could be a Blingers, he struggles to get a game and when he does, he reminds me of a deer in front of headlights  :rollin :banghead  :help

i think JON has been one of the biggest losers from our lack of player development skills in-club. We didn't know how to make a good footballer out of him and apparently couldn't convince him to eat a hamburger now and then to put some weight on.

I think his career (if it doesn't improve from here) is more a blight on the RFC dev. staff than his own personal ability or willingness to train or anything like that. All of this is my own opinion of course.
JON's situation is one of picking someone based on athletic ability rather than footy ability. He probably looked flashy in open space on the bigger WA grounds on a highlights tape but I wonder how many times we watched him playing live. Miller couldn't be everywhere. JON has good hands but virtually every other aspect of his game is lacking. His kicking technique is flawed. It's too 'open' - the ball takes too long to get from hand to boot and prone to miskick. Unless he's in open space you can easily force him into a turnover with even a bit of pressure. He also lacks footy smarts and just makes far too many mistakes full stop let alone for a top 10 pick. He's only once shown pace to the team's advantage and that was on debut kicking that winning point against Essendon. We got it wrong at the draft table.
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #438 on: July 18, 2009, 01:52:39 PM »
Demetriou was just on ABC 774 and still believes tanking doesn't exist. He said clubs are trying to win for memberships, sponsors, etc and he doesn't believe in conspiracy theories. Everything (Kerr missing through injury for instance) deep down has a logical explanation.

Offline Stripes

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #439 on: July 18, 2009, 01:58:28 PM »
Demetriou was just on ABC 774 and is still believes tanking doesn't exist. He said clubs are trying to win for memberships, sponsors, etc and he doesn't believe in conspiracy theories. Everything (Kerr missing through injury for instance) deep down has a logicial explanation.

He's either delusional or stalling until after the GC17 and NSW teams come in. I think the latter is the most likely as he wants to use the draft as the support to prop them up until success ensures. I think once these teams have lifted from the bottom of the ladder the AFL will sudden see the blatantly obvious and change the draft system to make it into a lottery or based on the first 15/17 games of the season when everyone has played each other once.

If Demetrio acknowledges there is a problem he would be obligated to attempt to fix it - something he can't afford to do currently.

Stripes

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #440 on: July 18, 2009, 03:48:21 PM »
Demetriou was just on ABC 774 and still believes tanking doesn't exist. He said clubs are trying to win for memberships, sponsors, etc and he doesn't believe in conspiracy theories. Everything (Kerr missing through injury for instance) deep down has a logical explanation.

Struth Andy D did the rounds of the wireless station today. He was on SEN between 12.00 and 12.30 and said tanking doesn't exist. then he was on 3AW just after 1.00pm and said tanking doesn't exist and then ABC

And btw he reckons tanking doesn't exist  :wallywink :wallywink :wallywink
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #441 on: July 18, 2009, 05:00:08 PM »
Demetriou was just on ABC 774 and is still believes tanking doesn't exist. He said clubs are trying to win for memberships, sponsors, etc and he doesn't believe in conspiracy theories. Everything (Kerr missing through injury for instance) deep down has a logicial explanation.

He's either delusional or stalling until after the GC17 and NSW teams come in. I think the latter is the most likely as he wants to use the draft as the support to prop them up until success ensures. I think once these teams have lifted from the bottom of the ladder the AFL will sudden see the blatantly obvious and change the draft system to make it into a lottery or based on the first 15/17 games of the season when everyone has played each other once.

If Demetrio acknowledges there is a problem he would be obligated to attempt to fix it - something he can't afford to do currently.

Stripes
It's probably a bit of both. Andy D can wipe his hands clean of the issue next year with no priority picks and GC17 having the first 3 picks and 6 inside the top 10.

It's a farce at the moment even for those sides fighting for the finals. Any side playing mostly the bottom 5 or 6 sides for the remainder of the H/A season is getting a cushy ride straight into September compared to others who need to fight against mainly top 8 sides.
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #442 on: July 19, 2009, 08:13:35 PM »
good result i spose

Offline WilliamPowell

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #443 on: July 19, 2009, 08:18:23 PM »
good result i spose

Yep bloody fantastic
"Oh yes I am a dreamer, I still see us flying high!"

from the song "Don't Walk Away" by Pat Benatar 1988 (Wide Awake In Dreamland)

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #444 on: July 21, 2009, 11:48:53 AM »
it will all come down to the melbourne game, if we lose against the dees then we still have decent hope for a really good pick.

Offline wayne

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #445 on: July 21, 2009, 12:37:21 PM »
I hope Freo beat Wet Toast this week.

Like Sheahan said last night On The Couch, the Eagles don't deserve a priority pick, they won a Grand Final in 2006.
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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #446 on: July 21, 2009, 07:24:56 PM »
I hope Freo beat Wet Toast this week.

Like Sheahan said last night On The Couch, the Eagles don't deserve a priority pick, they won a Grand Final in 2006.

Its tax time. If you employ a good accountant to find loopholes in tax laws to pay less tax and get a maximum refund then W Coast are entitled to find a loophole in another flawed system in the priority pick tanking issue and do the same.

I'm with you Wayne. I hope Freo win this week too and West Coast get their cumuppance from us in round 22. We should be accomodating enough in our generosity to let them kick 8 in the first quarter.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #447 on: July 21, 2009, 10:17:29 PM »
The priority pick was designed to help clubs that continually struggled over a number of years. Perhaps they should make it a 5 year criteria whereby if you miss the finals for 5 years straight only then do you get a priority pick. Under the 2 year system with a 4 win limit a club like Richmond misses out on the major benefit (2 picks in the top 5) because we are a yo-yo club between 9th and 16th. We've never been totally pathetic for 2 years in a row. We bounce between pathetic and just mediocre and miss out  :P. Potentially (if we don't win another game) we could be wooden spooners in 2 of the past 3 years yet the system rewards the Eagles who won a flag in 2006. It's a ridiculous system.

As for Freo vs West Coast - no doubt Freo will win. The Eagles can't afford another win while Freo get Sandilands and Pavlich back this week.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2009, 03:17:14 AM by one-eyed »
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Offline one-eyed

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How to tank in 10 easy steps (Herald-Sun)
« Reply #448 on: July 22, 2009, 03:19:17 AM »
How to tank in 10 easy steps
Jon Ralph | July 21, 2009 11:50pm

EVERYONE agrees players don't throw games. But that doesn't mean there aren't many ways for coaches eyeing priority picks to minimise their chances of winning.

Here is the Herald Sun's how-to guide to tanking.

1. PLAY YOUR STARS OUT OF POSITION

When you are a bottom-four side and your coach is planning for the future, no one notices positional changes in the name of experimentation.

In the "Hasleby Game" of 1999, where Fremantle won a priority pick by coughing up a halftime lead to Geelong, even the Freo players were suspicious.

The Cats were down by nine points at halftime but Fremantle bled the last 11 goals, and Dockers midfielder Brodie Holland smelled a rat.

"I do remember sitting with (teammate) Jess Sinclair and talking about how it's the first time he's played back pocket and the first time I've played on the half-back flank," Holland later said. "There were a few funny moves. There's definitely been a few chats amongst the older boys because we were curious."

2. PLAY ALL YOUR KIDS

It is now the norm rather than the exception -- force-feed your up-and-coming kids with games late in the year.

When the Pies lost 10 of the last 11 games of 2005 to secure Scott Pendlebury and Dale Thomas, they gave games to anyone. Promising kids such as Heath Shaw, Harry O'Brien and Sean Rusling were rewarded.

But many other debutants, including Ben Davies, Chris Egan, David Fanning, Brent Hall, and Adam Iacobucci, sank quickly from sight.

3. DON'T TAG THE OPPOSITION'S STAR

In the infamous Carlton-Melbourne Round 22 clash of 2007, silky Demons onballer Travis Johnstone was allowed to run rampant, gathering 42 possessions loose across half-back. It was perhaps the only time that season he was not assigned the opposition's best tagger.

Heath Scotland earned three Brownlow votes for his 31 possessions a fortnight earlier in Round 20, but the Demons didn't tag him that day either.

In the same round, Essendon's Andrew Lovett cut Carlton to shreds. Yet a Carlton official has twice recounted the story that when a coaching member asked "Who is on Lovett?", the reply was something like, "Let's not worry about picking up Lovett".

4. PUT PLAYERS IN FOR SURGERY

Tony Liberatore, who was banished from Carlton for his tanking claims, said defender Bret Thornton was forced into a needless ankle operation late in 2007.

The Blues and Thornton denied that, but many players are now given early surgery.

Clubs call it "list management", and we don't blink an eye. But if you are rewarded with a priority pick for a low finish, the pressure is on to manage that list a little harder.

5. DUMP THE 30-PLUS TYPES

It doesn't need explanation any more. Last year Demons Adem Yze and Jeff White played out their careers in the VFL. This year it is Tigers Joel Bowden, Nathan Brown and probably Troy Simmonds when he resumes from injury.

Bowden was in excellent form when dumped, but hasn't been able to get back in the side.

6. GIVE BATTLERS A GO

If you haven't already succeeded by putting the elders out to pasture and introducing raw kids, there is Plan C.

Every list has a host of strugglers desperate for one last chance to prove they deserve another contract.

Mostly they are no good, but playing them in prominent or key-position roles helps to death-ride your team.

7. CHANGE TACTICS

In that 1999 Kardinia Park game, a Fremantle team that had flooded heavily all year suddenly played one-on-one football.

"A lot of the boys were talking about a few of the moves," Docker Garth Taylor said. "The older players were having a conversation about it."

Boundary rider Richard Osborne noted "how refreshing in this day and age when coaches are just obsessed with flooding the backline, seeing Barry Stoneham one-out in the forward line".

8. LIMIT ROTATIONS

As Terry Wallace said this month, it's not what you do. It's what you don't.

If your players just don't have any petrol in the tank because they haven't had enough rest, it stands to reason they will be overrun.

9. TAKE YOUR MATCH-WINNERS OFF LATE

As Carlton's priority pick went down to the wire in 2007, Brendan Fevola was at several times brought from the field at key stages in games.

Against Collingwood, the Blues were level in time-on of the last term.

Then Fevola left the field for more than two minutes with a thigh problem, and Collingwood kicked the last four goals.

The evidence is not damning, but it doesn't hurt.

10. ASK YOUR COACH

In 2003 former Hawthorn coach Ken Judge claimed Hawks board member Don Scott had asked him in 1998 to lose the last five games of the year to help the club's draft prospects.

Scott denied the allegation and threatened legal action.

But according to Andrew Demetriou, tanking doesn't exist, so Judge must have simply misheard him.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,25817489-19742,00.html

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #449 on: July 22, 2009, 06:08:46 PM »
I almost fell off my chair laughing when I heard Eddie today say priority picks provide no benefit. I wonder how you got both Daisy Thomas and Pendlebury Eddie  :wallywink.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd