IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]

[gtig]

Voss wants any coach caught "tanking" banned for life and a lottery system brought in for the bottom 4 sides so the perception of tanking is removed.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/81934/default.aspx

Not sure how he imagines they will be "caught"? Strange idea really. But if we do end up keeping the ppicks system, one idea might be that it should not include the last 6-8 or so games, rather in counting # wins last 2yrs should wrap from (say) round 16 2 yrs previous to round 16 current year. that way late season games less likely to be thrown.

[one-eyed]

Tanking a 'non-issue' for Tigers
richmondfc.com.au
By Mic Cullen Tue 04 August, 2009

TANKING is a non-issue for the players but is something the AFL could take a look at, according to Richmond skipper Chris Newman.

The public debate around tanking has intensified in recent weeks, and reached a crescendo after Sunday's Richmond-Melbourne game – which the Tigers won with a kick after the siren – with critics pointing the finger at several positional changes and lack of rotations from the Melbourne camp.

Newman said the topic was not discussed by players.

"No, no, we haven't talked about tanking at all," he said on Tuesday.

"I think it's always going to be bandied around at this time of the year, but it's a non-issue for us players."

However, Newman said it was something the AFL should probably have a look at.

"Oh, I guess so, it's worth having a look at, but as I've stated before, I think that [the draft is] in place for a reason, to try and make the competition as fair, as even as possible, and I think that it has that effect now," Newman said.

"That's up to the AFL to decide, but as players we just go out there and try and win every week."

Newman said talk about tanking was a blight on the game and that he had never considered doing it, especially given how rarely the Tigers have won in his time at the club.

He said the reaction of the Demons players after their loss showed that they were committed to winning.

"I don't like hearing the word, and all I can speak on behalf of is the players, and there's just no way known I'd go out there to lose a game," Newman said.

"I haven't been in too many successful years and too many successful teams, so every win for me is a bonus.

"I think that both teams were really desperate at the end of the game to get the points, and I think that if you saw the look on the Melbourne players' faces after the game, I think you'd realise that tanking probably wouldn't be bantered round their change rooms either."

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/82000/default.aspx

[FooffooValve]

a self serving buffoon who took over a complete rabble of a club and made them constant finals performers and handed over a list to Ross Lyon which is gonna win a flag.

A self-serving buffoon who inherited a half decent list and was able to top up with more high picks and still couldn't get them any higher than 3rd (even I could have got that list that high), displaying an arrogance that he couldn't climb over when he refused to admit he was wrong about the role of ruckmen in the modern game.  Self-serving buffoon of the highest order.  He handed over a list that finished 9th in his last season.  Lyon has been the catalyst for this list (possibly) reaching it's potential, zero to do with Thomas.

Spot on smokey 

I'd also add that it has taken a change of administration and a redirection of funding to bring about the right environment for success. These are the kinds of things that bring about strong club culture — not tanking.

[Ramps]

a self serving buffoon who took over a complete rabble of a club and made them constant finals performers and handed over a list to Ross Lyon which is gonna win a flag.

A self-serving buffoon who inherited a half decent list and was able to top up with more high picks and still couldn't get them any higher than 3rd (even I could have got that list that high), displaying an arrogance that he couldn't climb over when he refused to admit he was wrong about the role of ruckmen in the modern game.  Self-serving buffoon of the highest order.  He handed over a list that finished 9th in his last season.  Lyon has been the catalyst for this list (possibly) reaching it's potential, zero to do with Thomas.

Your letting personal dislike for Thomas get in the way of fair opinion. Lyon has done nothing. The list is Grant Thomas's list, the players recruited- under Grant Thomas reign. A club that has been a laughing stock for 100 years and Grant Thomas sorted them out and made them way more professional than they have ever been. Thats the reality of it.

[Smokey]

Your letting personal dislike for Thomas get in the way of fair opinion. Lyon has done nothing. The list is Grant Thomas's list, the players recruited- under Grant Thomas reign. A club that has been a laughing stock for 100 years and Grant Thomas sorted them out and made them way more professional than they have ever been. Thats the reality of it.

Not at all Ramps.  I'm quoting facts AND including a personal dislike.

He had Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koschitzke, Jason Blake, Stephen Milne, Lenny Hayes, Steven Baker and Max Hudghton of the current list plus he had Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Burke, Loewe, Peckett and Thompson to work with when he took over plus he got Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, Matt Maguire, Nick Del Santo, Xavier Clarke and Leigh Montagna in his first year.  7 years, 3 final series, no grand finals.  Yeah, did real well with that ordinary list did Grant Thomas.  Self-serving buffoon.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Your letting personal dislike for Thomas get in the way of fair opinion. Lyon has done nothing. The list is Grant Thomas's list, the players recruited- under Grant Thomas reign. A club that has been a laughing stock for 100 years and Grant Thomas sorted them out and made them way more professional than they have ever been. Thats the reality of it.

Not at all Ramps.  I'm quoting facts AND including a personal dislike.

He had Nick Riewoldt, Justin Koschitzke, Jason Blake, Stephen Milne, Lenny Hayes, Steven Baker and Max Hudghton of the current list plus he had Harvey, Gehrig, Hamill, Burke, Loewe, Peckett and Thompson to work with when he took over plus he got Luke Ball, Xavier Clarke, Matt Maguire, Nick Del Santo, Xavier Clarke and Leigh Montagna in his first year.  7 years, 3 final series, no grand finals.  Yeah, did real well with that ordinary list did Grant Thomas.  Self-serving buffoon.

Brendon Goddard was inherited under Thomas' reign.
So does Malcolm Blight get credit in this too?

[Judge Roughneck]

a self serving buffoon who took over a complete rabble of a club and made them constant finals performers and handed over a list to Ross Lyon which is gonna win a flag.

A self-serving buffoon who inherited a half decent list and was able to top up with more high picks and still couldn't get them any higher than 3rd (even I could have got that list that high), displaying an arrogance that he couldn't climb over when he refused to admit he was wrong about the role of ruckmen in the modern game.  Self-serving buffoon of the highest order.  He handed over a list that finished 9th in his last season.  Lyon has been the catalyst for this list (possibly) reaching it's potential, zero to do with Thomas.

It was Lyon, and not the like of Reiwoldt, Goddard, Kosi? (pick 1, 1, 2)

[DallasCrane]

The list is Grant Thomas's list, the players recruited- under Grant Thomas reign. A club that has been a laughing stock for 100 years and Grant Thomas sorted them out and made them way more professional than they have ever been. Thats the reality of it.

I agree with that.

But I also agree that he got it horribly wrong on his stance on the importance of ruckman, and looks like a buffoon trying to defend it.

[Ramps]

The list is Grant Thomas's list, the players recruited- under Grant Thomas reign. A club that has been a laughing stock for 100 years and Grant Thomas sorted them out and made them way more professional than they have ever been. Thats the reality of it.

I agree with that.

But I also agree that he got it horribly wrong on his stance on the importance of ruckman, and looks like a buffoon trying to defend it.

Yep I agree he didnt get everything right, but he got way more things right than wrong. He did a good job at St K hopefully our new coach can do the same and atleast make us finals performers on a consistent basis.

[mightytiges]

gee i cant believe anyone who watched the BIG NAT last night would seriously prefer winning 6 games is as opposed to 4.

What bloody difference does it make. I would rather win 4 and at least show something in the other games we lose as opposed to winning 6 against Freo, Demons, North, Eagles etc etc and get smashed by the other teams at the top end. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!

Woosha is a VERY SMART OPERATOR. Our club can learn a hell of a lot from a club like that.

Yes, we can. 

Did you watch Footy Classified last night Fooffoo. They would have given you the answer as  to why WCE didnt tank and why they lost the game v Essendon. Anyway if you cant be bothered getting a copy of the answer, it doesnt matter, just look at the answer I gave yesterday. It was 100% exactly the same.

Essendon were inept was the answer. Hard to lose when the opposition is playing worse than you even when you're trying to tank. Melbourne tried everything in the book to lose against us and they still almost won we were that bad  .

[one-eyed]

Demetriou is in full support of Melbourne's "experimentation" 

‘‘Melbourne have been a poor performing team for several years. If they get a priority pick they will deserve it, believe me.’’

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/afl-boss-backs-dees-after-loss/2009/08/04/1249350546840.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

[one-eyed]

Hafey on 6PR...

The four-time Richmond premiership coach also called on the AFL to act on tanking, saying the time had come for a lottery system to be introduced for priority picks.

With the focus squarely on Melbourne coach Dean Bailey after the Eagles bucked the odds and the perception by beating Essendon last weekend, Hafey said the League had to act to end the perception teams did not want to win.

"The AFL have got to do something about it, they cant afford getting the bad publicity the way they have got," Hafey told Radio 6PR.

"They have got to change a little bit, even if they just go for the lottery in the last four positions.

"They have just got to stop this - the team selections and team moves by the coach can more or less restrict them about winning, and this is what  the papers have been talking about."

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/richmond-legend-backs-cousins-in-2010-20090805-ea0q.html

[Stripes]

I am a big fan of a lottery system, well at least a weighted lottery system where the bottom 8 are all involved, the bottom team receiving the biggest chance of securing the first pick while the 9th place team obtaining the smallest chance. I would scrap the priority picks altogether.

While having a lottery for the bottom 4 teams could have merit and be a better option than the current system, it would still not solve the problem. Eade pointed out that teams who were hovering around 12th - 9th position may tank to finish in the bottom 4 so this system would only shift the issue higher up the ladder.

If you just got rid of the priority picks you would still have teams tanking to secure particularly good players but in most drafts the difference between the first few picks in most drafts is marginally at best so this could help solve the problem.

Either way I solution needs to be at least trialled because all this speculation is hurting the game and confusing the supporters

Stripes

[Smokey]

I'm not even a fan of a weighted lottery to be honest.  Anything that slews the odds will leave the system open to conjecture and misuse.  If you finish 9th to 16th then a straight lottery of 8 numbers.  No incentive to do anything except win games for the good of the club.  Those making the 8 can follow the normal order - there is no need to make those picks a lottery.  Simple and effective.

[FooffooValve]

I'm not even a fan of a weighted lottery to be honest.  Anything that slews the odds will leave the system open to conjecture and misuse.  If you finish 9th to 16th then a straight lottery of 8 numbers.  No incentive to do anything except win games for the good of the club.  Those making the 8 can follow the normal order - there is no need to make those picks a lottery.  Simple and effective.

Agree, and then give the AFL Commission the right to award a priority or extra pick if they deem it necessary.