Author Topic: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]  (Read 47614 times)

Offline big tone

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #660 on: August 06, 2009, 06:01:33 PM »
I'm not even a fan of a weighted lottery to be honest.  Anything that slews the odds will leave the system open to conjecture and misuse.  If you finish 9th to 16th then a straight lottery of 8 numbers.  No incentive to do anything except win games for the good of the club.  Those making the 8 can follow the normal order - there is no need to make those picks a lottery.  Simple and effective.
Totally agree, also this way gives clubs that are on the right track and doing everyting they can to improve (teams around 10, 11, 12) an equal chance to get the best player to thier club to lift them even further up the ladder. Why should we reward the really bad sides, they also need to find ways to improve their lists without help from the AFL via the draft.
If this was the case the Tigers may have been more succussful over the last 15 years.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #661 on: August 06, 2009, 07:25:27 PM »
A couple of anti-tanking suggestions from Jake Niall in the Age....

Only ‘experimentation’ we need is with the draft
Jake Niall | August 6, 2009

Michael Voss has proposed a lottery for the bottom four, in which the draft order is plucked from a barrel; this is how basketball picks are allocated in America’s NBA.

I don’t like the lottery, which could conceivably place a team with 10 wins on the same footing as a basket case club with two victories. It isn’t terribly fair.

A venerated former premiership coach suggested a variation on the lottery, which I’ll call the round-15 solution. His system had the teams that had won four games or less by round 15 (when everyone would have played once) competing for the first draft pick over the final seven rounds. The team that won the most games (and/or percentage) would be the No. 1 pick, second best would be pick No. 2, etc.

The problem with this seven-round play-off, of course, is that the worst teams are excessively punished. While the incentive created for dead rubbers is a positive, it would defeat the socialistic ideal of the draft.

Even without priority picks, finishing last is a prize. The 16th club receives not just access to the best kid in the land, but first call on an uncontracted player in the pre-season draft; in 2000, St Kilda used the pre-season draft as a lever to recruit Fraser Gehrig and Aaron Hamill, while Carlton and Collingwood managed to land Nick Stevens and Shane O’Bree for nothing.

In the current finals and draft system, the least-attractive position is ninth. As Richmond fans would attest, ninth is the worst of all worlds. No early picks and no finals, the ninth and 10th teams are stuck in a mid-table purgatory.

There’s an argument to say that the ninth and 10th teams should be compensated in the draft, and the rewards to the bottom teams should be reduced. Under what I will term the ‘‘Richmond option’’, the teams that finish just outside the eight would be compensated by receiving the first pick in the second round.

The first round of the draft would remain as it is (but without priority picks), in reverse ladder order. But, once the second round starts, the ninth club is given pick 17, the 10th club pick 18, and so on. The current status quo of reverse ladder order would apply to teams in the eight. The bottom team would receive picks one and 24, which is still superior to the ninth club’s eight and 17, or the 10th team’s seven and 18. Reverse ladder order would resume after pick 24.

There is no perfect system that will allocate access to talent fairly, ensure an even competition, retain interest in late-season games and restore the public’s faith in games in which there is ‘‘experimentation’’.

There might be a better way than what we have now, though.

ANTI-TANKING DRAFT OPTIONS

RICHMOND DRAFT  (rewarding ninth)

■ Priority picks are scrapped and the first round of the draft remains unchanged, in reverse ladder order, with the bottom team having pick one, the second-bottom team pick two and so forth.

■ But once the first round ends, it is the ninth-placed club that gets pick 17, the 10th team receives pick 18 and it continues in actual ladder order from 9-16 until the bottom club has pick 24.

■The draft picks of the top eight remain in reverse ladder order.

Why:
The bottom teams are already well-rewarded, and it gives incentive to win games to clubs outside the eight. Ninth is the worst spot on the ladder in a draft system.

SEVEN-ROUND PLAY-OFF

■ Proposed by a highly respected former premiership coach, this radical system would use round 15 as a cut-off date. Teams that had won four games or less would then compete for the top picks, with the spoils going to the ‘‘winner’’.

■ The bottom-four club that won the most games (and/or highest percentage) in those seven rounds would receive the first pick, the second-best pick two and so forth.

Why:
It creates huge incentives for winning dead games. The downside is that it does not reward the worst-performed team.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/only-8216experimentation8217-we-need-is-with-the-draft/2009/08/05/1249350592698.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Ramps

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #662 on: August 09, 2009, 05:27:20 AM »
Today is another day, against a team going nowhere - actually the swans are going somewhere and thats backwards. With West Coast winning yesterday, our chances of adding a gun to our midfield have improved markedly.

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #663 on: August 09, 2009, 07:51:32 AM »
Today is another day, against a team going nowhere - actually the swans are going somewhere and thats backwards. With West Coast winning yesterday, our chances of adding a gun to our midfield have improved markedly.

yep and watch the supporters start touching themselves if we win.
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Online camboon

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #664 on: August 09, 2009, 06:13:16 PM »
Buthcher or Tregrove coming our way, what would prefer, ready made mid or a KF.

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #665 on: August 09, 2009, 06:51:56 PM »
Buthcher or Tregrove coming our way, what would prefer, ready made mid or a KF.

neither player aint going to fix the issues at punt rd

Offline wayne

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #666 on: August 09, 2009, 07:55:41 PM »
Freo stitch up Melbourne next week and pick 3 is ours to lose. I thought the Eagles game could be dangerous, but at home they'll destroy us.
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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #667 on: August 09, 2009, 08:34:07 PM »
Pick 3 and 19 is almost in the bag. We must also trade out or delist as many as we can. I know that McMahon is contracted and King is contracted but in reality- they should be paid out or in the case of McMahon trade him to another club and offer to pay his contract for the year.

Offline peggles

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #668 on: August 09, 2009, 09:18:23 PM »
Pick 3 and 19 is almost in the bag. We must also trade out or delist as many as we can. I know that McMahon is contracted and King is contracted but in reality- they should be paid out or in the case of McMahon trade him to another club and offer to pay his contract for the year.

yep pick 3 and 19 and hopefully a few more with trade would be awesome.  the club says we're expected to invest heavily in the draft this year, let's see them carry that out.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #669 on: August 09, 2009, 09:59:04 PM »
We won't get anything for King or McMahon at the trade table. Only at Richmond do these VFL standard footballers get multi-year contracts that we can't delist them  :scream ::). Pay Jordie out please  :help.

To get a decent pick we have to cough up someone decent that other clubs would be interested in - Tuck, Foley or alike. Even Rainesy is still rated!

Thanks to Freo losing their PP and North flogging the Dees, right now we have picks 4, 20, 36, 52, 68, etc. We need another 2nd round pick at least.



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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #670 on: August 09, 2009, 10:01:09 PM »
Pick 3 and 19 is almost in the bag. We must also trade out or delist as many as we can. I know that McMahon is contracted and King is contracted but in reality- they should be paid out or in the case of McMahon trade him to another club and offer to pay his contract for the year.

yep pick 3 and 19 and hopefully a few more with trade would be awesome.  the club says we're expected to invest heavily in the draft this year, let's see them carry that out.


We could have had so much more losing to Essendon and Melbourne the way things have panned out with Freo surprising Port today. Freo lose to Melbourne next week won't matter as Dees get to 4 wins and get their priority picks.
Melbourne could have been on 5 wins next week win win for us.
Freo would be on five wins win win for us.
Essendon would be the worst team ever to make the 8 and boy wouldn't they be patting themselves on the back in the boardroom at Windy Hill appointing Knight ahead of Hardwick win win for us
Hardwick gets the gig at Richmond win win for us
We would finish with 3.5 wins. Win win
Instead we do things the hard way for "winning culture" We have been crap for 27 yrs another 5 games here or there won't change anyones perception of us.

We just need to ensure we will finish in 15th spot if Freo beat Melbourne next week.  



Offline Infamy

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #671 on: August 09, 2009, 11:48:16 PM »
We won't get anything for King or McMahon at the trade table. Only at Richmond do these VFL standard footballers get multi-year contracts that we can't delist them  :scream ::). Pay Jordie out please  :help.

To get a decent pick we have to cough up someone decent that other clubs would be interested in - Tuck, Foley or alike. Even Rainesy is still rated!

Thanks to Freo losing their PP and North flogging the Dees, right now we have picks 4, 20, 36, 52, 68, etc. We need another 2nd round pick at least.
To be fair, King's been good since Jade took over and he started playing him as a tagger. He smashed Shaw today, probably the only matchup we won all day. I'd take King a million times over before Sanchez McMahon who should retire and become a butcher, he certainly knows how to be one on the footy field.

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #672 on: August 10, 2009, 12:50:56 AM »
To be fair, King's been good since Jade took over and he started playing him as a tagger. He smashed Shaw today, probably the only matchup we won all day. I'd take King a million times over before Sanchez McMahon who should retire and become a butcher, he certainly knows how to be one on the footy field.
I agree Kingy was our best player today and the only Tiger to beat his opponent but with all due respect to Kingy who tries his guts out if he's our best player on any day then it's an indictment on the rest of the team.
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Offline Infamy

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #673 on: August 10, 2009, 01:07:55 AM »
To be fair, King's been good since Jade took over and he started playing him as a tagger. He smashed Shaw today, probably the only matchup we won all day. I'd take King a million times over before Sanchez McMahon who should retire and become a butcher, he certainly knows how to be one on the footy field.
I agree Kingy was our best player today and the only Tiger to beat his opponent but with all due respect to Kingy who tries his guts out if he's our best player on any day then it's an indictment on the rest of the team.
I agree, however I still think King gets a bit of a bad wrap. He played injured last year, had a complete ankle reco in the preseason and in the last month has played good, disciplined, team football. He's contracted for next year and each week is making me less concerned about that. Sanchez on the other hand...

Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #674 on: August 10, 2009, 01:36:53 AM »
To be fair, King's been good since Jade took over and he started playing him as a tagger. He smashed Shaw today, probably the only matchup we won all day. I'd take King a million times over before Sanchez McMahon who should retire and become a butcher, he certainly knows how to be one on the footy field.
I agree Kingy was our best player today and the only Tiger to beat his opponent but with all due respect to Kingy who tries his guts out if he's our best player on any day then it's an indictment on the rest of the team.
I agree, however I still think King gets a bit of a bad wrap. He played injured last year, had a complete ankle reco in the preseason and in the last month has played good, disciplined, team football. He's contracted for next year and each week is making me less concerned about that. Sanchez on the other hand...
Jordie can be summed up with that "attempted" shepherd in the last quarter where the Swans player just went straight through him and Jordie cartwheeled away to the ground. It was pretty funny lol.

As for Kingy - as much as I think he has zero trade value if any other club even rated him slightly and was willing to part with a late 3rd or 4th round pick I'd trade him. He's not going to be apart of our long-term future.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd