Angus Graham [merged]

[jackstar is back again]

dont anyone put up stats again or I will spew( words from our ex coach, LOL)
Please people, watch the game of football.
Charman actually blocks for his team mates, smashes and collects opposition players and makes them earn there possesions.
In previous years he has been a very good player
Angus is just a big girl, end of topic

[Smokey]

I don't think I saw one of Graham's taps go to our advantage.  Actually, I think most of them went fair and square down the throat of the Hawthorn mids.

[blaisee]

sheesh i carry on about glass half fulls, but with angus its only about a quarter full.

so how many more yrs do people propose we give angus.  2 3 4 . im certyain in 4 yrs time he will still have the many same deficiencies and he will still be  a quarter full. well maybe a bit harsh if we are lucky he may reach  the glass half full rating.

another 2  4 yrs would make him a 7 yr  long term underachiever just like the bulk of players we have had over the yrs.
for christs sake just once cant we look at a players deficiencies and make the correct early call on him.

if hardwick does nothing else in his 3 yrs  i hope like hell this is one area he fixes.

claw the problem is the following
 
If we dont play Gus we have to play two raw 19 yr old ruckman, and they will be broke before they mature. Gus has to play because he has to protect the youngsters and limit their TOG in the ruck to 25-40% of the game, at least until they grow into their bodies. Hardwick has no choice but to play Gus and Simmo  this year. For all his faults at least gus is 22 and has the right work ethic, who knows he may well improve, unlikely but stranger things have happened, I repeat he has age on his side.

[jackstar is back again]

Gus protecting the youngsters
Gus is scared of his own shadow
Gus has NO WORK ETHIC.
What games do you watch Blaisee
And Gus wont improve, you know why ??/ You cant improve if you have no ability
Let me know next time he takes a mark in  a game will you

[WA Tiger]

Well hoora and this is what I have been saying, Graham is a tap ruckman and thats it,

He maybe just be a "tap ruckman" but where and who he taps it to is more then relevant. the way the game is played today he needs to be much more...

Just to revist this, I noticed this while scouting for Dreamteam players

Round 1 NAB Cup
Graham 0 Kicks 3 Handballs 0 Marks 19 Hitouts 1 Tackle 0 Goals 0 Points (22 Years Old/18 Games Experience)
Charman 1 Kicks 3 Handballs 0 Marks 20 Hitouts 1 Tackle 0 Goals 0 Points (27 Years Old/129 Games Experience)

He can get 40 hit outs a game but if he is tapping it down to his own feet, or tapping it down the throat of the opposition then they aren't worth very much as it doens't help his team.

Another thing from the other week if people are going to compare the stats between to the Charman & Graham is the conditions. Graham played in perfect conditions and had 3 handballs. Charman played in a monsoon  not exactly ideal conditions for big blokes.... but look at his tap outs and where they go and you soon realise why young Gus should what a bit of Charman 

So if we can't have a game plan to ensure he hits the ball to our players then gee whats going on?? Graham does not understand the plan or our rovers dont??? More time for this guy than Polo, regardless of their positions!!!!!!!!!!! Splitting hair with conditions as well WP, you can either tap or you cant!! Thats like saying Charman taps to the opposition all the time???? Yes I know you did not sy that but get mey drift???

[WilliamPowell]

More time for this guy than Polo, regardless of their positions!!!!!!!!!!!

WAT I am acutely aware that you don't rate or like Polo - that's fine. Not quite sure what relevance Polo has in this discussion

Splitting hair with conditions as well WP, you can either tap or you cant!! Thats like saying Charman taps to the opposition all the time???? Yes I know you did not sy that but get mey drift???

Exactly... and on what he shown in the years I've been watching him - he CAN'T

Reality is Graham's tap work is ordinary. More of his taps either go straight to the opposition or straight down to his feet. He rarely and I mean rarely gets a tap to the advantage of his mid fielders. Ours mids set up for him, they practice it a training but in the heat of battle he doesn't execute.

Gus spends more time at centre ball ups watching his opponent than he does the ball, he rarely jumps at centre bounces  ... I could go one

For a bloke who's primary job is to get it to his mids - I would say he isn't doing his job well. And I will repeat that when things are going his way - his body language is deplorable

That's always been my issue with Gus - he should do a lot more than he does and after 4+ years in the system he like others who have been around the same amount of time he has to step up.

[Francois Jackson]

sheesh i carry on about glass half fulls, but with angus its only about a quarter full.

so how many more yrs do people propose we give angus.  2 3 4 . im certyain in 4 yrs time he will still have the many same deficiencies and he will still be  a quarter full. well maybe a bit harsh if we are lucky he may reach  the glass half full rating.

another 2  4 yrs would make him a 7 yr  long term underachiever just like the bulk of players we have had over the yrs.
for christs sake just once cant we look at a players deficiencies and make the correct early call on him.

if hardwick does nothing else in his 3 yrs  i hope like hell this is one area he fixes.

claw the problem is the following
 
If we dont play Gus we have to play two raw 19 yr old ruckman, and they will be broke before they mature. Gus has to play because he has to protect the youngsters and limit their TOG in the ruck to 25-40% of the game, at least until they grow into their bodies. Hardwick has no choice but to play Gus and Simmo  this year. For all his faults at least gus is 22 and has the right work ethic, who knows he may well improve, unlikely but stranger things have happened, I repeat he has age on his side.

No idea pal

Look at Kruzer. They rolled the dice with him and look how good he is now.

If Gus is no good then stuff him send him to Coburg. Whats this business to play him so he can nurture the youngsters. I hope Hardwick doesnt think like you or we will be at the bottom for a very long time.

[Mr Magic]

I don't get the flack this kid cops. Thought he showed a fair bit of improvement last season.
Will he end up good enough? Maybe not but not his fault he's shouldering the ruck division at 22 years of age.

[taztiger4]

I don't get the flack this kid cops. Thought he showed a fair bit of improvement last season.
Will he end up good enough? Maybe not but not his fault he's shouldering the ruck division at 22 years of age.

I agree Maurice, reminds me in a way of Benny Gale, Bartlett gifted him games early to get exp and it took a while but he became a very good player

[1965]

I don't get the flack this kid cops. Thought he showed a fair bit of improvement last season.
Will he end up good enough? Maybe not but not his fault he's shouldering the ruck division at 22 years of age.

I agree Maurice, reminds me in a way of Benny Gale, Bartlett gifted him games early to get exp and it took a while but he became a very good player

Brendan always had the spark behind the eyes, not sure that we could say the same thing about Angus.

 

[jackstar is back again]

I don't get the flack this kid cops. Thought he showed a fair bit of improvement last season.
Will he end up good enough? Maybe not but not his fault he's shouldering the ruck division at 22 years of age.

I agree Maurice, reminds me in a way of Benny Gale, Bartlett gifted him games early to get exp and it took a while but he became a very good player

Brendan always had the spark behind the eyes, not sure that we could say the same thing about Angus.

 

Angus gives you the ""lights on, nobody home look ""

[the claw]

geez people just dont get it.

look at it this way.  if he was a u 18 you would not touch him with a barge pole  having watched him play for  3 yrs.

if footskills  ability agility smarts  and more a are a prerequisite then gus fails abysmally. for a future ruck aggression  would be another key ability in the air another.  he doesnt meet  any criteria.  he fails. 
having watched him now  since 07 i dont need to see him play anymore to know  outright that there is little chance of him being a decent afl player.
if i had watched him for 3 yrs  as a junior leading up to the nd draft you would literally say buggerr off.

people keep saying give him a chance  he will improve. how will he improve just look at his weaknesses they are insurmountable at this level.
why this footy club did not chase a mature ruckman and a mature key forward in the off season still has me bewildered.
14 new faces and we could not target 2 mature types. oh wait a minute we did but they did nothing for  structure or in ones case quality.

[Ox]

No Rucks since Greg Dear

[Danog]

geez people just dont get it.

look at it this way.  if he was a u 18 you would not touch him with a barge pole  having watched him play for  3 yrs.

if footskills  ability agility smarts  and more a are a prerequisite then gus fails abysmally. for a future ruck aggression  would be another key ability in the air another.  he doesnt meet  any criteria.  he fails. 
having watched him now  since 07 i dont need to see him play anymore to know  outright that there is little chance of him being a decent afl player.
if i had watched him for 3 yrs  as a junior leading up to the nd draft you would literally say buggerr off.

people keep saying give him a chance  he will improve. how will he improve just look at his weaknesses they are insurmountable at this level.
why this footy club did not chase a mature ruckman and a mature key forward in the off season still has me bewildered.
14 new faces and we could not target 2 mature types. oh wait a minute we did but they did nothing for  structure or in ones case quality.

Are you questioning our recruitment of Farmer?  We were crying out for a good back pocket, and he could be it.

[the claw]

no polak.we delist him then rookie him knowing we will likely need experience i can understand the logic but a real quality player was available to us in bradshaw.

i have mentioned on here a few times the club should have actively targeted  someone like sam jacobs at carlton  for a ruck berth in fact i wanted him as a rookie  moran was another i was prepared to take a punt on.

its about proper succession plans and ours was is flawed. we had an ageing simmonds and then graham who was supposed to take over the #1 mantle which in turn would allow  vickery time to develop.  but graham was always a high risk and we have done nothing to cover for his possible failure. its coming home to roost now.