Trade Period: Day One tidbits/SEN reported Otto deal

[H Tiger]

Love to sign off on pick 6 and gillbee  ..........but I don't think ottens will go to the Dogs .....so send him to the cats for two picks in the top twenty and take pick 20 off the table taking Simmons in the PSD. This tiger fans gives us 5 out of the top twenty kids in the country this draft, the competition between the young guys will send us up the ladder in a few years

What do you think? Can we come last again next year? The next Chris Judd and Reiwolt would be nice

[Tiger Spirit]

Hi H Tiger, it seems that Ottens wants either the Cats or Swans.  Doubt any other Clubs come into real contention.

5 picks in the first 20 is a real positive, no doubt.

With TW being so competitive, I doubt we will come last again next season. Wouldn’t expect too much from the next season or two, would just be hoping for a more competitive team, but if the recruiters know what they are doing, there are other ways to re-build a team without needing to finish last.

Imo, second and third round picks are just as important as any earlier picks.  Having a Judd/Riewoldt is good, but Premiership teams tend to have an even spread of players (i.e. depth), because the superstars aren’t going to do it on their own.  They can lift those around them, but as we know, without enough players with ‘footy smarts’, the top line players can easily be negated by the opposition.

[WilliamPowell]

This is from this mornings Australian. Interesting to say the least

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http://theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,10994136%255E2722,00.html

Bombers, Cats eye Ottens
Greg Denham
October 07, 2004

OFF-CONTRACT Port Adelaide midfielder Josh Carr last night was somewhere west of Adelaide, but still a fair way east of Perth, as at least one other club attempted to buy into his swap to Fremantle.

Carr's future may depend on negotiations by Power and Geelong, which is attempting to enter into the previously independent trade deal in a bid to gain the highly sought-after Brad Ottens from Richmond.

Essendon coach Kevin Sheedy also said last night the Bombers were keen to secure Ottens, despite being warned off by Ottens' management, who reinforced the ruckman's desire to continue his career with Sydney or Geelong.

But so far the Swans have failed to mount a challenge that would satisfy Richmond.

Sheedy said Essendon had offered its first pick, No.14, and Mark Bolton in a deal to Richmond that could also involve the Bombers gaining out-of-favour Tiger Ty Zantuck.

But negotiations will continue today between the Tigers and the Kangaroos for a straight swap of Zantuck and Roos forward Leigh Harding.

Port rejected the Dockers' initial offer for Carr of national draft selections 11 and 27, but the Power would consider the same picks and promising young Fremantle player Ryley Dunn as part of the deal.

Port Adelaide could then on-trade pick No.11 to another club, with Geelong the front-runner, in return for a quality midfielder and possibly another player.

By trading with Port Adelaide, Geelong or even the Bombers could move a step closer to snaring Ottens, provided Richmond reduced its demands of at least one draft pick under 10 in return.

While Essendon showed its hand for the first time yesterday as being keen to land Ottens, Sheedy denied speculation that Mark Johnson would be used as bait.

"I'd be sacked if I did that, he's not in the picture," Sheedy said of offering Johnson, a tough onballer who won the Bombers' best and fairest award from the back pocket in 2002.

After so far failing to trade with Collingwood for pick No.7 which would clinch the Ottens deal, Geelong's bid for selection 11 consisted of a package involving Corey Enright, originally recruited from Port Adelaide.

Richmond, however, last night was firm it had not reduced its demands of two first-round draft choices, one being in the top 10, for Ottens. Football director Greg Miller said: "There are a lot of different stories out there but we haven't changed our parameters."

And while Richmond was clear yesterday it would secure out-of-contract ruckman Troy Simmonds, Fremantle upped its offer significantly to retain him.

The Dockers added a year to his contract with a pay increase, to a new four-year deal which chief executive Cameron Schwab said "has given him something to think about".

The Lance Whitnall-to-St Kilda scenario failed to gain legs yesterday with Carlton, where he is contracted in 2005, and the Saints, saying little.

===============

Have to say I'd be happy with Bolton. Think this would be a better deal.

Bolton = 194cm (25yo)
Harding = 180cm (23yo)

We need height down back desperately

[H Tiger]

Leigh Harding, I hope not. ???

14 sounds better than what I thought we would get for Ty, Bolton couldn't be worse than Ty ............but he will probably be a star for the Bombers.

Bring on the Kids ...... Richmond Premiers in the next ten years.

*Don't worry I'm sane I've only seen them in the finals two times in my life* 

[mightytiges]

Sheedy said Essendon had offered its first pick, No.14, and Mark Bolton in a deal to Richmond that could also involve the Bombers gaining out-of-favour Tiger Ty Zantuck.

Interesting....

So if we could convince Otto to go to the dogs (excuse the pun) then we could gain picks 6 and 14 plus Bolton and Gilbee for Otto and Zantuck. I could easily live with that 

btw Welcome aboard H Tiger 

[Harry]

Love to sign off on pick 6 and gillbee  ..........but I don't think ottens will go to the Dogs .....so send him to the cats for two picks in the top twenty and take pick 20 off the table taking Simmons in the PSD. This tiger fans gives us 5 out of the top twenty kids in the country this draft, the competition between the young guys will send us up the ladder in a few years

What do you think? Can we come last again next year? The next Chris Judd and Reiwolt would be nice

Exactly right H !!

Tell the cats to trade for an early second rounder (say 22) and request them to hand this over along with their 1st and 2nd round picks.  This way Geelong won't have to disrupt their untouchables.  Geelong would jump at that.

Also take pick 20 off the table, and take simmonds in the PSD seeing that the Ottens deal is done.  Keep all our picks and possibly get 1 or 2 more picks in the top 30 for Zantuck and some others. 

This scenario will give us picks 1, 4, 16, 20, 22, 32, 36, 52, (plus 1 or 2 if other deals can be done).  This will give us 8-10 picks inside the top 50 with 6 inside the top 30.  What more do you want if you are in a rebuilding phase. 

I get the feeling that Millers insistance on a top 10 deal will have us screwed in more than 1 way. 

Firstly it might well screw the Ottens deal and then we will lose him for nothing or will be forced to re-draft him in the PSD and thus losing the no. PSD pick. 

Secondly the delay of the Ottens deal will force us to give away pick 20 to secure Simmonds as we would want the PSD pick available for Ottens.  Losing pick 20 is in effect losing an u18 all australian.

and thirdly, the delay in the Ottens deal is wasting precious time in which we can be doing other deals.

Come 2pm tomorrow Miller and Wallace will be left scratching their balls with no trade done just because they are obsessed with this top 10 pick which no-one wants to give up.

Just because we were stupid enough to do so last year and the year before doesn't mean the other clubs are just as stupid.

[H Tiger]

Don't worry HH. Everyone keeps saying GM's a smart operator
If he doesn't get anything for ottens he will be looking for a new job.

Things can't go bad at the trade table for us year after year. 

Surely this is the year when we pick up some decent recruits and they actually play the way they are payed to.

We capitalise on our draft picks (no Luke Hodges....Please).

And........ things turn around at Tigerland.

+I am an eternal optimist+

[Harry]

Imo, second and third round picks are just as important as any earlier picks.  Having a Judd/Riewoldt is good, but Premiership teams tend to have an even spread of players (i.e. depth), because the superstars aren’t going to do it on their own.  They can lift those around them, but as we know, without enough players with ‘footy smarts’, the top line players can easily be negated by the opposition.

That's the spirit, Spirit 

I'm strongly of this beleif...........that 2nd and 3rd rounders are just as important as 1st rounders.  In the situation we are in I would rather 2-3 late first rounders/second rounders than a top 10 pick.  We need depth !!  And flooding our list with heaps of kids picked between 10 and 36 will give us this.  If we were 1 or 2 good players away, then yes, go for those first rounders.  But we are a long way from that. 

Geelong rebuilt its list soley from 2nd and third round daft picks.  They never finished last or near the bottom and never had priority picks.  They jus chipped away and traded away their half decent players for numerous 2nd/3rd rounders. 

If you can get 6 picks inside the top 30 each year for 3-4 years straight, and use them with astute recruiting of kids, you will rebuild your list in no time and will be a contender in years to come.

We seem to be obsessed with either a particular player, in which we throw away early draft picks for, or a high top ten pick, for which we do not consider an option of numerous late first rounders/second rounders.

I just don't understand us sometimes.

[Harry]

And another thing, during the year we were all ranting and raving about Jackson, Raines, Roach, Hartigan, and Gilmour.  Well besides Gilmour, all these kids were all picked up with draft picks after 36.  Imagine the exitement level when we have another 6-8 kids on our list coming through Coburg, all of whom are of higher quality than this years batch, and all of whom were picked up with draft picks before pick 36.  Imagine if we did this for 2-3 years straight !!

Miller - Don't be too fussed with the top 10 pick - Don't stuff it up.  Aim to get a first rounder and 2 early second rounders.  This is easily achieved.

[JohnF]

The foreplay continues.....

We will go for a compromise tomorrow most likely. But kudos to Miller for refusing to touch his toes and trying to get the best out of this situation.

Stay clear of Bolton at all costs. The epitome of a soft player. Looked average in Essendon's side. How average will he look without the likes of Solomon, Fletcher, Wellman and McPhee helping him out?

[Tiger Spirit]

Stay clear of Bolton at all costs. The epitome of a soft player. Looked average in Essendon's side. How average will he look without the likes of Solomon, Fletcher, Wellman and McPhee helping him out?

There might be something in what you say JohnF.  I think he may have been used as trade bait last year as well.  If so, he seems expendable at the Bombers, so why would we want him?

[Tiger Spirit]

And another thing, during the year we were all ranting and raving about Jackson, Raines, Roach, Hartigan, and Gilmour. Well besides Gilmour, all these kids were all picked up with draft picks after 36. Imagine the exitement level when we have another 6-8 kids on our list coming through Coburg, all of whom are of higher quality than this years batch, and all of whom were picked up with draft picks before pick 36. Imagine if we did this for 2-3 years straight !!

Too right HarryH.   Seeing those players you mention is the reason why I think if Clubs have a plan and know what they are doing then they can quickly build a list.

You don’t necessarily need to finish last to do that, you just need to be shrewd with your selections and do a bit of homework on the players in the draft.  Last season, RFC convinced Daniel Jackson to go into the 2003 and we were able to pick him up at pick 53.  Had he been in this year’s draft, he more than likely would have been a first round selection.

Had we done that sort of homework in previous years then I doubt some of the players that have been on our list would have made it so far.

[mightytiges]

Sydney are now out of the hunt for Otto after giving up their first pick for Jolly 

Dees now have picks 12,13 and 15.

[JohnF]

LOL, unbelievable!

Are the demons interested in Ottens? 

[mightytiges]

Given the top 11 picks will most likely come from the likes of Deledio, Tambling, Griffen, Franklin, Roughead, Wood, Monfries, Meyer,  Deluca, Willits, Meeson and Lewis then picking up 3 of these guys is a good start to rebuidling our list. I'd reckon we should hang out until tomorrow just in case the Cats crack but if pick 11 is available then that might have to be our compromise. Add to that we would also be able to use pick 16 on one of these kids if they slip through.