Author Topic: Who would be the more attractive proposition to coach: Richmond or North?  (Read 11177 times)

Offline Stripes

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I left, what I felt, was a more balanced view on the subject under the name of FootTragic. I'm looking forward to seeing the responses  :P

What a shame Stripes...busted.
Roo beauty must have someone on 24 hr troll watch. :lol

Try stirring up those mongrels at "Talkin Carlton" next. :thumbsup
Slightly sprung lol

Just tell them Stripes that Richmond's side last weekend was 2 years younger and 25 games less experienced per player. Oh and Morton is only 22, Tambling 22, Collins 20. Jackson and Foley are still only 23. They are no Lids or Cotch but still a decent young core to build a side around.

I'll have to add that to my next post. I replied but they seem pretty measured at the moment and not like the typical rabid Carlsum, Collinwooble or Boomers supporters.  :shh

Offline Chuck17

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I'll have to add that to my next post. I replied but they seem pretty measured at the moment and not like the typical rabid Carlsum, Collinwooble or Boomers supporters.  :shh

I am pretty impressed how quickly they picked you up, you werent over the top at all in your trolling

Offline Stripes

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I'll have to add that to my next post. I replied but they seem pretty measured at the moment and not like the typical rabid Carlsum, Collinwooble or Boomers supporters.  :shh

I am pretty impressed how quickly they picked you up, you werent over the top at all in your trolling

My guess si that it is actually mat73 moonlighting  :whistle  ;)

Offline wayne

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Ross Lyon was just interviewed on Fox and said it's surprising that we're down the bottom of the ladder.

We're great at contested ball and he said it'd be a good time to coach them.
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Offline Chuck17

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Ross Lyon was just interviewed on Fox and said it's surprising that we're down the bottom of the ladder.

We're great at contested ball and he said it'd be a good time to coach them.

What does he reckon now.

Offline one-eyed

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Roos or Tigers: which is better bet? ............ Garry Lyon (Age)
« Reply #50 on: July 15, 2009, 05:29:41 AM »
Roos or Tigers: which is better bet?
Garry Lyon | July 15, 2009

What's it to be, giving the Roos a leg up the ladder or rebuilding Tiger culture and pride?

WHAT holds more appeal for the aspiring senior coach? Awakening one of the once super powers of the competition, Richmond, from an almost 30-year slumber and inspiring it to achieve what 11 other men, with similar aspirations, failed to do?

Or securing the future of a proud and traditional, blue collar football club in North Melbourne, which, despite having achieved the ultimate success in the same 30-year time frame twice, and participated in 13 more finals series, has largely failed to capture the imagination of the football public?

It is a conundrum that Nathan Buckley (and potentially one or two others) will be wrestling with in the coming weeks.

Being the one to finally get it right at Tigerland is an enticing proposition that would stimulate the minds of any competitive beast with an ego. And let's face it, ego and senior coaching are very comfortable bedfellows.

The Tiger Army is alive and well. I've experienced it off the field, having run the London Tavern Hotel in the heart of Richmond territory. Like most teams' supporters they are great winners, and ferocious losers.

As an opposition player who has stood in the goal square while the ball has been up the other end of the ground, I have had a front row seat to their passion on match day as well.

It is palpable and the roar they are able to generate is as loud and parochial as any in the competition.

What the Roo faithful may lack in numbers they make up for in loyalty and commitment. Despite being the team of the '90s, winning two flags, and boasting the best player, in my opinion, to have ever played the game, it has never been able to fully capitalise on its success.

Perennially in the bottom couple of the membership ladder and a constant battle to keep pace off the field in terms of corporate support and the requisite football facilities, makes its achievements all the more meritorious.

The primary consideration though, in any decision, will be the playing list and the potential to develop it to the point where it is a genuine contender.

The Kangaroos have, under Dean Laidley, defied expectation and involved themselves in three of the past four finals series, including a preliminary final in 2007.

That they will miss this year gives rise to the argument that their time has passed and a rebuild will be required.

With the Tigers' absence from September since 2001 it is reasonable to expect that their rebuilding should have been well and truly completed by now. That they have had to pour the concrete for the foundations on more than one occasion is cause for concern. At best, the latest "base" is just starting to dry.

Both teams have 16 players aged 22 or under. The Tigers' top five in that age bracket would consist of Trent Cotchin, Brett Deledio, Tyrone Vickery, Jack Riewoldt and I'm including Jayden Post who was super impressive on the weekend.

The Roos' top five youngsters would read: Jack Ziebell, Liam Anthony, Sam Wright, Lachie Hansen and Andrew Swallow.

At he other end Richmond has five players aged 30 and over in Joel Bowden, Nathan Brown, Troy Simmonds, Matthew Richardson and Ben Cousins while the Roos have two: Brent Harvey and Adam Simpson.

It's reasonable to say two of the five at Richmond might survive while Harvey will definitely play on and Simpson is a good chance.

The deeper you go into the lists the harder it is to separate them. Richard Tambling is to the Tigers what Daniel Wells is to the Roos. Variously an emerging superstar or a big disappointment, depending on the week or month of the year.

Both sides have only one genuine superstar in their midst: Harvey at the Roos, Richo at the Tiges. Cotchin could be the next big thing in the midfield and may be a future captain. Ziebell has similar claims at Roo land.

Robbie Tarrant is a highly rated youngster who is yet to play; Post has similar raps on him and has just started on his AFL journey.

Robin Nahas is an exciting small forward; so are Lindsay Thomas and Matty Campbell.

In terms of improving the list, the Roos may have more avenues available to them through the draft.

With three 200-centimetre-plus ruckmen on board, plus Drew Petrie, trading options present themselves, with the recently re-signed David Hale among them. A potential deal with the Gold Coast is still on the cards.

Belatedly both clubs have been able to address their archaic off-field facilities as they prepare to move into the modern era, enabling them to compete on equal terms with other clubs.

The Tigers expect to complete a $20 million development of Punt Road in time for the 2010 season, while work is well under way on North's $16 million redevelopment of Arden Street.

The importance of these works cannot be overstated. The absence of such a development at one club over the other could be enough to sway a candidate.

Off-field stability and future certainty present their own challenges. The Tigers have been no strangers to off-field controversies and their various coaches have found it almost impossible to remain immune.

Precedent and history are undeniable considerations for prospective candidates.

The Roos have appeared more settled and the returning of the club to its members this year was both timely and welcome.

James Brayshaw and Eugene Arocca have worked diligently in the past 24 months to reassure everyone that their decision to turn their back on the offer to relocate to the Gold Coast was the correct one. But they have painted a target on their back for those, particularly in the media, which saw that as a missed opportunity.

The re-signing of leading sponsor Mazda this week is significant. Brayshaw is a persuasive advocate for the Roos cause, and while his "white knight" call may have been a little naive, he has delivered on his other presidential pledges.

It is a close call as to which job might be the better one, and although the Roos may just shade it, there is no such thing as a "bad" AFL coaching job.

The glare of the spotlight would not be as severe at North Melbourne and the capacity of the playing group to get the job done may be the attraction for some.

For others, pulling into work alongside the MCG every day and leading Richmond back to its ferocious and feared best may be an urge too strong to deny.

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/roos-or-tigers/2009/07/14/1247337122813.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Offline mightytiges

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Not sure how Lyon ended up with those 5 names other than four of ours were top 10 picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Jack (8 ), Vickery (8 ) and Post (26). As promising as Vickers and Postie were last Saturday they have only played a couple of games each. They may end up guns (let's hope so) but it's way too early to judge. Nahas and Collins have shown more this year and both are in the 22 and under bracket.
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Offline mightytiges

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The only answer we got out of today is both sides are ordinary and a long way from being finals sides. As much as the journos keep telling us North's list is better I'd still take ours over theirs to take into the future. Harvey will leave a massive hole when he retires and they had more mature players they we did. Our better players today were all 23 and under except for Newy and Tucky.
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Offline WilliamPowell

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The only answer we got out of today is both sides are ordinary and a long way from being finals sides. As much as the journos keep telling us North's list is better I'd still take ours over theirs to take into the future. Harvey will leave a massive hole when he retires and they had more mature players they we did. Our better players today were all 23 and under except for Newy and Tucky.

Someone phoned 3AW tonight after the game and asked the question how many games experience did each side have

Bondy said that the Tigers had 1100 odd games of experience and the Roos over 2100 games

Based on those numbers I would think the answer is pretty obvious
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Total Players By Games
 Richmond Games North Melbourne 
16 Less than 50 11
4 50 to 99 2
2 100 to 149 5
0 150 or more 4

Richmond Attribute North Melbourne 
187.0cm Height 188.2cm
82.3kg Weight 89.4kg
22yr 11mth Age 24yr 11mth
42.8 Games 81.3

Offline mightytiges

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Someone phoned 3AW tonight after the game and asked the question how many games experience did each side have

Bondy said that the Tigers had 1100 odd games of experience and the Roos over 2100 games

Based on those numbers I would think the answer is pretty obvious
Agree WP. Although it will take a bold coach to accept a first year of pain given the young list we will have next year. North have an older core (albeit mediocre apart from Harvey) which may get them more wins than us next year but they've got more mature deadwood to clear out. Not a year you'd think you can trade players away for good picks either being the last draft before the new teams come in. They may get a good pick for Hale in the 2010 draft if he decides to join GC17.
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Offline harry bosch

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Still pretty unclear , yes the side we fielded today had more young talent but they had a lot more younger players
out of the side like Ziebell ,Smith and Tarrant plus a heap more...

Offline 1980

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If you're Buckley, you're looking much harder at how things work off the field than on. 80% of his decision will be based on who he is working for, not who is working for him.

And I doubt many in the football world rate March/Wright over Brayshaw/Arocca.

Offline mightytiges

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Still pretty unclear , yes the side we fielded today had more young talent but they had a lot more younger players
out of the side like Ziebell ,Smith and Tarrant plus a heap more...
That's a fair point too HB. For Ziebell and Smith you know already from the few games they've played they'll be top players for the Roos. Warren looks a promising midsized forward and they were also missing Wells who isn't young but still has plenty of footy ahead of him at 24. But apart from that the rest are unknowns apart from their junior reputations. Robbie Tarrant hasn't yet debuted. We were missing Cotchin, Collins and Connors so not all of our young talent was on show either. Foley is still only 23.

I'm not bragging about our list HB. It's ordinary and needs a broom through it. I just don't see where journos say North's list is obviously better than ours when they've won just one more game than us. Structurally you can argue it's better because they have a large group of 24-28 year olds whereas we don't but that senior group is average and will take the Roos nowhere. If you take those players who have played 10 games or more this year as the core of each side then out of the 16 Roos who have played 10+ games in 2009 only 3 are 22 and under (Ziebell being on of them). The bulk of their side this year has been the senior group yet they have won only 4.5 matches. Compare that to the 17 Tigers who have played 10+ games this year and 11 of them are 22 and under. I think journos look at the six over 30s we have and probably the total average age of list which is skewed in our case and they just lazily say oh Richmond has too many old players to get rid of rather than them looking at the detailed make up of both teams each week. 
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Still pretty unclear , yes the side we fielded today had more young talent but they had a lot more younger players
out of the side like Ziebell ,Smith and Tarrant plus a heap more...

What is Norths best XXII?

Ziebell & Jesse Smith both class. Cotchin not playing evens it up abit.

Not seen alot of Tarrant.