One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: mightytiges on June 04, 2010, 01:14:46 PM
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I know it's way early to start talking about the Draft but I've heard GC17 are pretty certain already on who they want to pick up with their first 3 picks and it isn't Jack Darling or Andrew Gaff. Swallow is already one of the three of course and I'm guessing the other two may be talls Harley Bennell and Sam Day.
1. Bennell/Day
2. Day/Bennell
3. Swallow
4. We get choice of the best from the rest.
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No expert but reckon it will go like this:
GC Swallow
GC Day
GC Darling
Rich Choice between Gaff & Bennell. We are going to get a very, very good player either way.
I would like Bennell as he seems to be more a goal kicking midfielder.
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Dose GC lose picks if they get Ablett?
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Yes, but it wont be picks 1,2 or 3.
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Pretty sure GC doesn't lose picks at all, other teams just get bumped back (i.e. us)
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Actually if Geelong lose Ablett I'm pretty sure they get picks in future drafts and they can choose when they activate them prior to the start of the season. This is the same with all clubs.
Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Jack Darling slips to us, I think GC will take Day & Bennell with their 2 remaining picks.
There is a rumour on PRE that Day will leave AFL and go to the USA for baseball if GC picks him though as he wants to be with family in Adelaide and Melbourne. As much as I'd like to have him at Richmond, I also wouldn't mind seeing another player walk out on thee GC17 after Alex Keath chose cricket over his GC17 bottom age selection last year.
At this stage it's still pretty wide open for one or more of Day, Darling, Bennell or Gaff to be available at our pick. Would be pretty happy with either, with a preference for Day or Darling.
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It seems recruiters like Pelchen already expect Swallow, Day and Bennell to be Gold Coast's first 3 picks in the draft...
Pelchen ... believes Greater Western Sydney's draft pool could be even better next year.
But he describes Gold Coast's likely top three selections this year as ready-made guns.
Already they have David Swallow, brother of North Melbourne's Andrew, nominated as their No.1 pick in November with two obvious candidates to follow.
"Sam Day from South Australia could play league footy this year, so he will definitely play next year," Pelchen said.
"A kid like Harley Bennell from WA is an exceptional talent. It's Daniel Wells reincarnated. Put him on a wing and he would play for us this week, that's how good he is.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/this-will-kill-everyone/story-e6frf9jf-1225877215966
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I think our talls are starting to come along and we may end up with an embarrassment of riches with our forwardline in the future with Jack, Astbury, Griffiths, Post, Westoff and even Taylor(slightly small) all challenging for 2/3 positions.
Hardwick suggested we may be looking for a quality outside midfielder in the next draft which would mean either Gaff or Bennell (if he is still there) would be the most likely choice.
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Really want Bennell, but he should be gone by our pick. :(
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Gaff is our man.
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Id be happy with any of the top 4. Darling will give us another quality forward, Gaff will give us a quality mid, Bennell will give us a quality outside mid who kicks goals and Day gives us a quality CHB/CHF option
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I don't know much about Darling.
I know he's maybe a little undersized for a forward, is he agile and is his tank big enough to maybe play a midfield/wing role?
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Adding a darling would be ok IMHO.
Potential forward line down the track
Darling Astbury Riewoldt
Taylor Griffiths (Nason) - although Id prefer an upgrade on Nason for a forward pocket
In terms of September actions- this forward line fully developed could do some major damage.
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Does anyone believe that Darlings history will play a part in his draft position? The idea of adding a pav type player to our team sounds amazing though I imagine he will take time to develop that sought of engine.
This time last year the only player we were going after was john butcher, I'm sure it will change significantly!
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I believe butcher has had a back problem (stress fracture?). I wonder if that was affecting his kicking?
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Pick 4 - Andrew Gaff
Next Pick - Best Tall Defender
Next Pick - Outside Midfielder (however, I believe Tambling and Deledio are perfect for the outside midfielder role!)
Next Pick - Goalkicking Half Forward
Next Pick - Tall Forward (yes, another tall forward!)
ALL, must be Cubs! no 19,20,21,22,23,24 year olds!
trade for mature players, do not use draft picks for mature players!
:)
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I don't know much about Darling.
I know he's maybe a little undersized for a forward, is he agile and is his tank big enough to maybe play a midfield/wing role?
He can play midfield
Will we overlook the tall to go for a small yet again? You'd think we'd have learnt our lesson by now.
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I don't know much about Darling.
I know he's maybe a little undersized for a forward, is he agile and is his tank big enough to maybe play a midfield/wing role?
He can play midfield
Will we overlook the tall to go for a small yet again? You'd think we'd have learnt our lesson by now.
If he can play some midfield then he might be our Pav.
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ALL, must be Cubs! no 19,20,21,22,23,24 year olds!
I don't agree with that, the diluted talent pool will mean looking outside the box will come into play as much, if not more than it did last year. Nothing wrong with another Nason, Webberley, Silvagni or Barlow type.
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I think we need another quality midfielder to add to the engine room. With Martin, Cotchin and Foley in the middle we don't bat down very far from there. Jackson can continue to play the tagger role yet perhaps a better user of the ball may emerage in the future. At present we only have Cousins(not many games left), White, Collins and Tambling and Lids who are not playing midfielder roles at present. I think another quality ball user would be a better option over another young tall who we have plenty of at the moment all pushing for a regular spot.
Stripes
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ALL, must be Cubs! no 19,20,21,22,23,24 year olds!
Disagree Torch. The 'edge' in the next couple of drafts will come to those clubs looking at these non-traditional areas.
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A mock 1st round draft from BF:
1. David Swallow (WA/GC) - Midfielder - 190cm - Gold Coast
2. Sam Day (SA) - Forward - 196cm - Gold Coast
3. Harley Bennell (WA) - Midfielder - 184cm - Gold Coast
4. Luke Parker (VIC) - Midfielder - 181cm - Richmond
5. Andrew Gaff (VIC) - Midfielder - 180cm - Gold Coast
6. Shaun Atley (VIC) - Midfielder - 186cm - Adelaide
7. Lucas Cook (VIC) - Forward - 195cm - Gold Coast
8. Jared Polec (SA) - Midfielder - 188cm - West Coast
9. Jack Darling (WA) - Forward - 190cm - Gold Coast
10. Scott Lycett (SA) - Ruck/Forward - 202cm - Melbourne
11. Jayden Pitt (VIC) - Midfielder - 187cm - Gold Coast
12. Jamie Solly (SA) - Forward - 190cm - Port Adelaide
13. Josh Green (TAS) - Midfielder - 179cm - Gold Coast
14. Brodie Smith (SA) - Midfielder - 187cm - Brisbane
15. Dyson Heppell - Midfielder - 187cm - Gold Coast
16. Blayne Wilson (WA) - Defender - 183cm - North Melbourne
17. Joel Wilkinson (Qld) - Midfielder - 183cm - Essendon
18. Anthony Miles (NSW) - Midfielder - 181cm - Hawthorn
19. Kieran Harper (VIC) - Midfielder - 187cm - Sydney Swans
20. Ben Newton (WA) - Midfielder - 182cm - Carlton
21. Mitch Wallis (VIC) - Midfielder - 183cm - Bulldogs (F/S)
22. Mitch Hallahan (VIC) - Midfielder - 182cm - Fremantle
23. Zak Fitzgerald (SA) - Forward - 192cm - Collingwood
24. Jed Lamb (VIC) - Forward - 180cm - St Kilda
25. Daniel Gorringe (VIC) - Ruck - 197cm - Geelong
To me this just shows how much depth this draft has. A lot of good kids still not named here. Jacobs, Tape, Cripps , Darmody, Otten, Butcher, Prestia, O'shea, Fasolo, Michie, Caddy just of the top of my head.
http://bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=711212&page=3
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Everyone is saying its a quality draft
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dont' mind that one bit. quite happy to pick up luke parker.
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When you look at that mock draft you can see why pick 4 is so important!
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When you look at that mock draft you can see why pick 4 is so important!
Why is it so important? Theres alot of good players right down to 30. If Gold Coast offered you say pick 7, 9 and 11 for pick 4 and McGuane- wouldnt you take it? Just speaking hypothetically of course. I would. If we got a Ben Jacobs at 27 or 29 for example that would also be a great result.
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Yep have to look at offloading one of our KPD to the Gold Coast for a decent pick
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Yep have to look at offloading one of our KPD to the Gold Coast for a decent pick
true. that would be a good ploy.
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Here's the Mock Draft done on TAC Future Stars just now with Shifter Sheehan, Hutchy, Dixon and Wallace
1. David Swallow .......midfielder
2. Harley Bennell
3. Sam Day ..............key forward (vertical jump 81cm)
4. Andrew Gaff ..........midfielder (leader, good character, wins heaps of footy, good kick - like Deledio)
5. Daniel Gorringe .....ruckman (need to go early to get a ruckman, can go forward)
6. Scott Lycett ......... 202cm
7. Jack Darling ......... 190cm tall forward
8. Mitch Wallis ......... Bulldogs F/S at pick 21 but other clubs will bid. Can get Libba jnr at 38 as well.
9. Ben Jacobs .......... HB sweeper but can play forward. Very good kick
10. Shaun Atley ....... Melksham type, very good tackler
Scott Clayton said Gold Coast will be using 9 picks and pick up 8-10 experience players.
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From that list Id be happy with either Jacobs or Atley as well to be honest but a couple West Australians will be good to I reckon.
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We wont go tall, Hardwick has already said he wants outside speed
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The final round of the U18 Championship will be shown live on Fox Sports and the AFL website...
See the future stars of the AFL at Etihad Stadium on 30 June. FREE ENTRY
The NAB AFL Under-18 Championships will culminate with four games in one massive day at Etihad Stadium as all eight teams will be on show. Come along and see the future of the AFL in action.
You can also watch it live on Fox Sports or follow the whole day online at afl.com.au/u18s
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/96636/default.aspx
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Cool I will tape it and watch it when I get back from Africa on break!!
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Pick 4 is looking very shaky :clapping :clapping
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Pick 4 is looking very shaky :clapping :clapping
pick 6 is looking shaky!
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Plenty of good players available this year :gotigers
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Pick 4 is looking very shaky :clapping :clapping
it better not be.
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we wont get No 4 coz we wont come bottom, get used to it
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Pick 4 is looking very shaky :clapping :clapping
it better not be.
Well torch if you enjoy losing more than winning and pick 4 is so important to you then perhaps you should start following the Eagles, Crows or Port
Because.....
we wont get No 4 coz we wont come bottom, get used to it
:clapping :clapping :thumbsup
:gotigers
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we wont get No 4 coz we wont come bottom, get used to it
yep, at least 3 or 4 more wins to come this season
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we wont get No 4 coz we wont come bottom, get used to it
yep, at least 3 or 4 more wins to come this season
Doubt it. Will very much depend on the other teams. Our approach to the game will be consistent for the rest of the year so only teams with better skills, size and determination will beat us. Considering all the top 8 teams we face on the run home I can't see us winning may more...but at the start of the year I won't have picked us beating Brisbane either so time will tell. I'm hoping we are smart enough as a club to do the hard yards this year and tank!
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I can see us possibly winning another 3
All the rest of our games are in Melb which us a huge plus
And we have Port, Melb & Adel and they're the ones I reckon we are real show in
I am actually looking forward to see how we go against the Pies & Saints again. Carlton is an interesting one too it will good to see us play them again with our team structures & style working.
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With the draft looking so strong and no chance of getting a priority pick i dont see the point in tanking.
Why not win as many as we can and take pick 6 or 8. Then if GC want any of our players its up to them to offer a higher pick to get whoever they are after.
A pick we can use next year when the draft isnt looking so deep and GWS also come into the equation.
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And lets not forget that we seem to have gone OK this year with our late picks ;) ;D
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And lets not forget that we seem to have gone OK this year with our late picks ;) ;D
Nah, you've got it all wrong WP. It's all about the highest pick - all those tanking teams winning all those premierships can't be wrong.................................can they? ::)
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Nah, you've got it all wrong WP. It's all about the highest pick - all those tanking teams winning all those premierships can't be wrong.................................can they? ::)
Oops sorry smokey I forgot ;D
You know what ....
I wouldn't swap that feeling on Saturday night when the siren went for pick 4
it was sweet.... to see those kids win like that picks really don't matter to me because I know we are heading in the right direction :thumbsup
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Pick 4 is looking very shaky :clapping :clapping
it better not be.
Well torch if you enjoy losing more than winning and pick 4 is so important to you then perhaps you should start following the Eagles, Crows or Port
Because.....
we wont get No 4 coz we wont come bottom, get used to it
:clapping :clapping :thumbsup
:gotigers
i am!
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Nah, you've got it all wrong WP. It's all about the highest pick - all those tanking teams winning all those premierships can't be wrong.................................can they? ::)
Oops sorry smokey I forgot ;D
You know what ....
I wouldn't swap that feeling on Saturday night when the siren went for pick 4
it was sweet.... to see those kids win like that picks really don't matter to me because I know we are heading in the right direction :thumbsup
That's the reason we are where we are WP. People at the club (in the past i hope) like yourself with short minded thoughts. I enjoyed the feeling too but we need to look at the big picture not the short term rewards.
To say you wouldn't swap a win at the Gabba against a team that has won 1 in 9 games for pick 4 in a comprimised draft is just plain DUMB!!!!! Not to mentention the extra pick at the start of the second round too if we are smart!!!!!
Suck it up Tigers supporters and give the recruiters the best chance to lift this club to where it should be.
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Nah, you've got it all wrong WP. It's all about the highest pick - all those tanking teams winning all those premierships can't be wrong.................................can they? ::)
Oops sorry smokey I forgot ;D
You know what ....
I wouldn't swap that feeling on Saturday night when the siren went for pick 4
it was sweet.... to see those kids win like that picks really don't matter to me because I know we are heading in the right direction :thumbsup
That's the reason we are where we are WP. People at the club (in the past i hope) like yourself with short minded thoughts. I enjoyed the feeling too but we need to look at the big picture not the short term rewards.
To say you wouldn't swap a win at the Gabba against a team that has won 1 in 9 games for pick 4 in a comprimised draft is just plain DUMB!!!!! Not to mentention the extra pick at the start of the second round too if we are smart!!!!!
Suck it up Tigers supporters and give the recruiters the best chance to lift this club to where it should be.
:clapping
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I am actually leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games. Yes the wins are great for the kids and for the supporters but in the long run is it really worth it this year??
I am on the fence with this one!!
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That's the reason we are where we are WP. People at the club (in the past i hope) like yourself with short minded thoughts. I enjoyed the feeling too but we need to look at the big picture not the short term rewards.
To say you wouldn't swap a win at the Gabba against a team that has won 1 in 9 games for pick 4 in a comprimised draft is just plain DUMB!!!!! Not to mentention the extra pick at the start of the second round too if we are smart!!!!!
Suck it up Tigers supporters and give the recruiters the best chance to lift this club to where it should be.
Couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. The reason we have been no good for so long has been because of a large number of factors both on and off field and to single out a lack of high picks is a blinkered view of the highest order. Our financial position has been precarious, our board has been splintered and misled, our football department has been under resourced and poorly chosen, our membership department has been unprofessional and misguided, our playing list has been poorly developed, our recruiting has been sub standard, our coaching has been crap etc etc etc. Even if we had the top 3 picks every year for 5 years in a row it would have made stuff all difference to us as a club over recent years and would just have served to highlight how poor we have been in every facet of running a successful football club at AFL level. The number of the pick doesn't matter - it's who you select with the picks you have, how you develop them that counts. We get just that one fundamental right and we will be more successful than we could hope to believe. Get most of the above deficiencies right and we can't possibly be anything but successful. Tanking is a placebo for fools.
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I am actually leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games. Yes the wins are great for the kids and for the supporters but in the long run is it really worth it this year??
I am on the fence with this one!!
So you think we missed out by not getting pick 1 this year, and only having pick 3 instead? Or maybe you think Fremantle should have tanked so that they had an earlier pick than #8 in the rookie draft?
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I am actually leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games. Yes the wins are great for the kids and for the supporters but in the long run is it really worth it this year??
I am on the fence with this one!!
So you think we missed out by not getting pick 1 this year, and only having pick 3 instead?
Thats not what I said smokey, I actually said I was on the fence and posed the question as well. At the moment no we haven't lost out with pick 3 but will that be the case in 5 years, time will tell.
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I am actually leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games. Yes the wins are great for the kids and for the supporters but in the long run is it really worth it this year??
I am on the fence with this one!!
So you think we missed out by not getting pick 1 this year, and only having pick 3 instead?
Thats not what I said smokey, I actually said I was on the fence and posed the question as well. At the moment no we haven't lost out with pick 3 but will that be the case in 5 years, time will tell.
Beg to differ WAT but "leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games" is implicit in it's support of tanking. There is not one word you can say to me that can convince me of any single benefit to be gained by tanking, not one.
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I am actually leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games. Yes the wins are great for the kids and for the supporters but in the long run is it really worth it this year??
I am on the fence with this one!!
So you think we missed out by not getting pick 1 this year, and only having pick 3 instead?
Thats not what I said smokey, I actually said I was on the fence and posed the question as well. At the moment no we haven't lost out with pick 3 but will that be the case in 5 years, time will tell.
Beg to differ WAT but "leaning more towards pick 4 rather than winning anymore worthless games" is implicit in it's support of tanking. There is not one word you can say to me that can convince me of any single benefit to be gained by tanking, not one.
I am not saying we should tank Smokey, but would I rather have the wooden spoon to get pick 4, maybe. We don't have to tank to finish bottom, there is no reason the Eagles or the Crows can't win more games than us this year. We have turned our form around as they can.
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I am not saying we should tank Smokey, but would I rather have the wooden spoon to get pick 4, maybe. We don't have to tank to finish bottom, there is no reason the Eagles or the Crows can't win more games than us this year. We have turned our form around as they can.
Fair enough then WAT. I just don't buy the theory that the more early picks you have, the more successful you are likely to be, and I can't ever begin to think of wanting to win a wooden spoon just for that reason. There are so many more factors and influences in the composition of a successful club and draft picks are only a few small pieces of that complicated jigsaw. Tanking to get early picks gives the impression of a rebuild in progress, a future with potential, a pathway to success but it just fails the test of history over and over and over again. It masks the myriad of reasons that are the 'real' reasons why a club is unsuccessful, and why the same clubs go back to mediocrity without ever achieving their goal. I'll repeat what I have said many times before - when we fix all of our issues and deficiencies then we will become very successful without ever having a need to tank, and until we fix them we can only ever hope that a bandaid called tanking will fix our sucking chest wound.
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Nah, you've got it all wrong WP. It's all about the highest pick - all those tanking teams winning all those premierships can't be wrong.................................can they? ::)
Oops sorry smokey I forgot ;D
You know what ....
I wouldn't swap that feeling on Saturday night when the siren went for pick 4
it was sweet.... to see those kids win like that picks really don't matter to me because I know we are heading in the right direction :thumbsup
That's the reason we are where we are WP. People at the club (in the past i hope) like yourself with short minded thoughts. I enjoyed the feeling too but we need to look at the big picture not the short term rewards.
To say you wouldn't swap a win at the Gabba against a team that has won 1 in 9 games for pick 4 in a comprimised draft is just plain DUMB!!!!! Not to mentention the extra pick at the start of the second round too if we are smart!!!!!
Suck it up Tigers supporters and give the recruiters the best chance to lift this club to where it should be.
:clapping
i second that BT.
good post.
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I am not saying we should tank Smokey, but would I rather have the wooden spoon to get pick 4, maybe. We don't have to tank to finish bottom, there is no reason the Eagles or the Crows can't win more games than us this year. We have turned our form around as they can.
Fair enough then WAT. I just don't buy the theory that the more early picks you have, the more successful you are likely to be, and I can't ever begin to think of wanting to win a wooden spoon just for that reason. There are so many more factors and influences in the composition of a successful club and draft picks are only a few small pieces of that complicated jigsaw. Tanking to get early picks gives the impression of a rebuild in progress, a future with potential, a pathway to success but it just fails the test of history over and over and over again. It masks the myriad of reasons that are the 'real' reasons why a club is unsuccessful, and why the same clubs go back to mediocrity without ever achieving their goal. I'll repeat what I have said many times before - when we fix all of our issues and deficiencies then we will become very successful without ever having a need to tank, and until we fix them we can only ever hope that a bandaid called tanking will fix our sucking chest wound.
Can see what you saying smokey, many of the best players have come from late to even later picks in the draft than pick 4. However pick 4 will at least give our recruiters first crack out of every other club (other than GC17 of course) at securing the best talent, in their opinion, for our club at that pick.
I also don't believe in tanking, never have and never will, it's cheating, but like I said we don't have to tank to finish bottom.
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Clubs look at what they are after, not always going after the player everyone thinks is the #1 Draft which for most clubs is pick #4 this year.
A club could be 1st pick of the draft & not take the best player, instead taking the best player that will fit into thier side
We know we are going to finish low so wins & confidence is alot more important to a club than the aweful feeling of a wooden spoon. l detest wooden spoons :banghead thier is no aweful feeling & being labeled the worst team in a year. If we finish higher than the critics than thats alot better feeling all round.
More wins thanks :gotigers if they knock off Collingwood than there is nothing better in this world
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That's the reason we are where we are WP. People at the club (in the past i hope) like yourself with short minded thoughts. I enjoyed the feeling too but we need to look at the big picture not the short term rewards.
To say you wouldn't swap a win at the Gabba against a team that has won 1 in 9 games for pick 4 in a comprimised draft is just plain DUMB!!!!! Not to mentention the extra pick at the start of the second round too if we are smart!!!!!
Suck it up Tigers supporters and give the recruiters the best chance to lift this club to where it should be.
Trust me BT the win isn't about how I feel when we win. We win, we win, we lose I don't really care as long as they are competitive.
But for me it is the pride I have when I see these kids achieve something - that's what I wouldn't swap.
For these kids to grow together they need to win together.
And I don't think that it's DUMB. Reckon it's about building something from the ground up and that's what we are doing for the frist time in god knows how long and I am enjoying the ride
And I think long term these kids; winning now is important for their development, confidence and belief.
You shouldn't lose sight of the fact we are winning games with a team of babies and the winning formula is coming predominantly from the babies not the old blokes
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Wouldn't you love another Dustin Martin, Lids or Cotchin in the team? These players are not left in the later picks and players such as Barlow are such a remarkable story because they are rediculously rare rather than common place. Great players are very rarely allowed to slip down the draft order these days. Recruiters are too educated and astute to miss too many. Players such as Hodge, N. Riewoldt, Goddard and Cooney are what you build a team around and are the difference between a good team and a great team.
In saying this, I do think you are right to some degree Smokey with your opinion that we could have been given great picks for years now under previous administrations and still gone no where but this has changed now. Look at what we did with our choices last year. We have the recruiters to find talent and, more importantly, the coaches to develop them. If we get a great pick such as 4 then we will be able to develop them to turn into Dusty's right hand man but you can only develop players to reach their potential.
I love to see us win as much as anyone. Can't tell you how excited I was to share the song with my mates, family and little boy the last two weeks but in the end I would rather take the pain now so I can enjoy the rewards of it later when we are streaking up the ladder. A few wins now will not build a winning culture or make our players better, they only make our rebuilding harder.
It is more the extra pick that I want because I think our recuiters we do something with it unlike in the past. Play the whole list, test players in different positions and gauge which players should be with us next year. This year is about building the foundation for future success, not winning at all cost...
Stripes
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Wouldn't you love another Dustin Martin, Lids or Cotchin in the team? These players are not left in the later picks and players such as Barlow are such a remarkable story because they are rediculously rare rather than common place. Great players are very rarely allowed to slip down the draft order these days. Recruiters are too educated and astute to miss too many. Players such as Hodge, N. Riewoldt, Goddard and Cooney are what you build a team around and are the difference between a good team and a great team.
In saying this, I do think you are right to some degree Smokey with your opinion that we could have been given great picks for years now under previous administrations and still gone no where but this has changed now. Look at what we did with our choices last year. We have the recruiters to find talent and, more importantly, the coaches to develop them. If we get a great pick such as 4 then we will be able to develop them to turn into Dusty's right hand man but you can only develop players to reach their potential.
I love to see us win as much as anyone. Can't tell you how excited I was to share the song with my mates, family and little boy the last two weeks but in the end I would rather take the pain now so I can enjoy the rewards of it later when we are streaking up the ladder. A few wins now will not build a winning culture or make our players better, they only make our rebuilding harder.
It is more the extra pick that I want because I think our recuiters we do something with it unlike in the past. Play the whole list, test players in different positions and gauge which players should be with us next year. This year is about building the foundation for future success, not winning at all cost...
Stripes
Top post Stripes :clapping.
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That's the reason we are where we are WP. People at the club (in the past i hope) like yourself with short minded thoughts. I enjoyed the feeling too but we need to look at the big picture not the short term rewards.
To say you wouldn't swap a win at the Gabba against a team that has won 1 in 9 games for pick 4 in a comprimised draft is just plain DUMB!!!!! Not to mentention the extra pick at the start of the second round too if we are smart!!!!!
Suck it up Tigers supporters and give the recruiters the best chance to lift this club to where it should be.
Trust me BT the win isn't about how I feel when we win. We win, we win, we lose I don't really care as long as they are competitive.
But for me it is the pride I have when I see these kids achieve something - that's what I wouldn't swap.
For these kids to grow together they need to win together.
And I don't think that it's DUMB. Reckon it's about building something from the ground up and that's what we are doing for the frist time in god knows how long and I am enjoying the ride
And I think long term these kids; winning now is important for their development, confidence and belief.
You shouldn't lose sight of the fact we are winning games with a team of babies and the winning formula is coming predominantly from the babies not the old blokes
Good to hear a voice of reason amongst the dross.
:thumbsup
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Wouldn't you love another Dustin Martin, Lids or Cotchin in the team? These players are not left in the later picks and players such as Barlow are such a remarkable story because they are rediculously rare rather than common place. Great players are very rarely allowed to slip down the draft order these days. Recruiters are too educated and astute to miss too many. Players such as Hodge, N. Riewoldt, Goddard and Cooney are what you build a team around and are the difference between a good team and a great team.
In saying this, I do think you are right to some degree Smokey with your opinion that we could have been given great picks for years now under previous administrations and still gone no where but this has changed now. Look at what we did with our choices last year. We have the recruiters to find talent and, more importantly, the coaches to develop them. If we get a great pick such as 4 then we will be able to develop them to turn into Dusty's right hand man but you can only develop players to reach their potential.
I love to see us win as much as anyone. Can't tell you how excited I was to share the song with my mates, family and little boy the last two weeks but in the end I would rather take the pain now so I can enjoy the rewards of it later when we are streaking up the ladder. A few wins now will not build a winning culture or make our players better, they only make our rebuilding harder.
It is more the extra pick that I want because I think our recuiters we do something with it unlike in the past. Play the whole list, test players in different positions and gauge which players should be with us next year. This year is about building the foundation for future success, not winning at all cost...
Stripes
You are making the same mistake all pro-tankers make Stripes - thinking that the best picks are only available early. Here is a comparison of the Top 5 picks of the last 5 years versus those that were taken later in the drafts:
2005
- Top 5 - Marc Murphy, Dale Thomas, Xavier Ellis, Josh Kennedy, Scott Pendlebury.
- Others - Patrick Ryder, Mitchell Clark, Shaun Higgins, Nathan Jones, Shannon Hurn, Grant Birchall, Travis Varcoe, Richard Douglas, Paul Bower, Bernie Vince, Sam Gilbert, Andrew Swallow, Alipate Carlile, Joel Patfull, Clint Bartram, Mathew Stokes.
- Pre-Season - Matt Thomas, Jason Porplyzia.
- Rookie - Mathew Priddis, Stephen Gilham, Ben McGlynn, Kieran Jack.
2006
- Top 5 - Bryce Gibbs, Scott Gumbleton, Lachlan Hansen, Matthew Leuenberger, Travis Boak.
- Others - Joel Selwood, Nathan Brown, James Frawley, Jack Riewoldt, Mitchell Brown, Leroy Jetta, Gavin Urquhart, Brent Renouf, Shane Edwards, Kurt Tippett, Alwyn Davey, Nathan Krakoeur, Josh Kennedy, Tom Hawkins, Karl Reimers, David MacKay, Lindsay Thomas, Robbie Gray, Josh Hill, Tyson Goldsack, Justin Westhoff, Jesse White.
- Pre-season - Ben Ross
- Rookie - Clint Jones, Sharrod Wellingham, Michael Jamison, Jarrod Harbrow, Matt Campbell, Jason Davenport.
2007
Top 5 - Mathew Kreuzer, Trent Cotchin, Chris Masten, Cale Morton, Jarrad Grant.
Others - David Myers, Rhys Palmer, Lachlan Henderson, Patrick Dangerfield, Cryiul Rioli, Brad Ebert, Jack Grimes, Harry Taylor, Callan Ward, Scott Selwood, Tayte Pears, Andy Otten, Brendan Whitecross, Stephen Browne, Scott Thompson, Chris Mayne, James Polkinghorne, Dennis Armfield, Cale Hooker, Craig Bird, Taylor Walker.
Pre-season - Stefan Martin
Rookie - Aaron Joseph, Nathan Grima, Austin Wonaeamirri, Jared Petrenko, Cruize Garlett, Andrew McQualter, Cameron Stokes, Shane Mumford.
2008
Top 5 - Jack Watts, Nic Naitanui, Stephen Hill, Hamish Hartlett, Michael Hurley.
Others - Chris Yarran, Daniel Rich, Ty Vickery, Jack Ziebell, Steele Sidebottom, Ryan Schoenmakers, Tom Swift, Hayden Ballantyne, David Zaharikis, Nicholas Suban, Jack Redden, Dayne Beams, Daniel Hannebery, Jamie Bennell, Mitch Robinson, Todd Banfield, Liam Anthony, Neville Jetta.
Pre-season - Liam Jurrah, Tom Rockliff.
Rookie - Jeff Garlett, Robin Nahas, Zac Dawson, Matthew DeBoer, Liam Picken, Greg Broughton.
2009
Top 5 - Tom Scully, Jack Trengove, Dustin Martin, Anthony Morabito, Ben Cunnington.
Others - Gary Rohan, Brad Sheppard, Jake Melksham, Jordan Gysberts, Lewis Jetta, Ryan Bastinac, David Astbury, Ben Stratton, Ben Nason.
Pre-season - Nil.
Rookie - Michael Barlow, Alwx Silvagni, Brodie Moles, James Podsiadly.
If we had not received any one of those Top 5 picks in any of those 5 years, yet picked astutely with the picks we were given, we could have had a far better side than the one we currently have. So I will stand by my opinion that getting early picks are not the panacea to a premiership, it is who you pick and how you develop them that matters. And we can do that at the same time as we work on learning and building a winning culture. Win, win, win if all those responsible at the club get their collective acts together.
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I agree that it is exciting to see the kids developing and winning together but make no mistake I am certain we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet. Have we really kid ourselves into believing that we have enough quality midfielders? Do we look at Jack and say that our forwardline is set for the future? What about our ruck and backline?
Sure we have players developing and coming through all the time but we have equally as many that disappoint and never get there. We need another quality midfielder to work along with Cotchin, Martin and possibly Foley. We need talented outsiders and support players roating though the engine which we just don't have.
What about the forwardline - is Griffiths assured of remaining injury free and making it? What about Astbury - is he a backman or forward? Will Post or Westoff come in? Are our small man stocks sufficent with Taylor, Nahas, Nason and Collins/White?
What I am trying to say is that we still have a huge amount of holes which need to be filled and we need as many quality players on our list pushing for spots as possible because the reality is is that most won't make it. An early pick will almost always assure you of a quality long-term player while the further up the order you are forced, the smaller the chances are. Two players in the 20s would also increase our chances in finding successful players.
I just wish we weren't forced into this position where, being so success-starved, we struggle to see past the short term uphoria of a few meaningless wins instead of enduring the build a bit longer to give us the best chance we have beyond this year.
I doubt we will not win more than 3 but surely people can see beyond the 'team-building' hype and see you need quality materials to work with before you can build anything of exception - that's what early picks are.
Stripes
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Wouldn't you love another Dustin Martin, Lids or Cotchin in the team? These players are not left in the later picks and players such as Barlow are such a remarkable story because they are rediculously rare rather than common place. Great players are very rarely allowed to slip down the draft order these days. Recruiters are too educated and astute to miss too many. Players such as Hodge, N. Riewoldt, Goddard and Cooney are what you build a team around and are the difference between a good team and a great team.
In saying this, I do think you are right to some degree Smokey with your opinion that we could have been given great picks for years now under previous administrations and still gone no where but this has changed now. Look at what we did with our choices last year. We have the recruiters to find talent and, more importantly, the coaches to develop them. If we get a great pick such as 4 then we will be able to develop them to turn into Dusty's right hand man but you can only develop players to reach their potential.
I love to see us win as much as anyone. Can't tell you how excited I was to share the song with my mates, family and little boy the last two weeks but in the end I would rather take the pain now so I can enjoy the rewards of it later when we are streaking up the ladder. A few wins now will not build a winning culture or make our players better, they only make our rebuilding harder.
It is more the extra pick that I want because I think our recuiters we do something with it unlike in the past. Play the whole list, test players in different positions and gauge which players should be with us next year. This year is about building the foundation for future success, not winning at all cost...
Stripes
agree Stripes!
our coaches seem to be doing very well.
Graham --- Lade
Cotchin/Martin --- Campbell
if we have the 4th pick, there is no doubt in my mind that Richmond will draft Andrew Gaff.
you add him with Cotchin and Martin, and you have three players under the age of 21 that will play with each other for over 250 matches!
maybe Collins you could add too
then, add Foley, Jackson, Tuck, Cousins that are your big bodied players that come in and share the work load.
Hardwick said that we need a outside midfielder, why doesn't he use Tambling as this?
i would love to see Deledio in the midfield or half forward line, simply because he is a match winner.
off the half back line, i understand why he is there.
if he can have 33 touches like last week in the midfield or half forward line, we will win more matches easily.
:)
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If we had not received any one of those Top 5 picks in any of those 5 years, yet picked astutely with the picks we were given, we could have had a far better side than the one we currently have. So I will stand by my opinion that getting early picks are not the panacea to a premiership, it is who you pick and how you develop them that matters. And we can do that at the same time as we work on learning and building a winning culture. Win, win, win if all those responsible at the club get their collective acts together.
There's no doubt that who you pick is far more important that the pick number itself and, as you yourself have said, regardless of the picks we had over the last half of a decade we probably would have chosen average players at best given the recruiting resources we had. Now though we have invested in better recruits and coaches who know how to develop talent. This is why gaining early picks that can be groomed into excellent structual players has never been more important.
You mentioned a few names from every draft who were chosen later and become good players. Well for every one late draft choice who has been unexpectedly good there would be at least 5 times that many who haven't. In fact the percentages of players drafted who play more than 10 games of AFL football is less than one third of all those taken in the National, PSD and Rookie drafts and even those figures are heavily skewed by players taken in the first round. What does that tell you?
I'm not saying you are garenteed (sp?) a great player with an early pick but the percentages are certainly on your side and with 3 players taken below the 30s this year that would give us a tremendous chance of developing 3 long term players for our club going forward. The further we lift from the bottom this year our first choice order lifts dramatically. Coming second means our first choice becomes 6, normally reserved to the team finishing 11th on the ladder. Finishing 4th from the bottom means the equivalent of finishing in the finals with pick 10. This blows out our later picks too up close to a 3rd round pick in earlier drafts. I just don't think its worth it given the state of our list.
As I have already said I love us win as much as anyone but thinking about it without emotion, managing the team selection and positions to ensure we finish last this year is the responsible and most logical action to take.
Stripes
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I agree that it is exciting to see the kids developing and winning together but make no mistake I am certain we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet. Have we really kid ourselves into believing that we have enough quality midfielders? Do we look at Jack and say that our forwardline is set for the future? What about our ruck and backline?
Sure we have players developing and coming through all the time but we have equally as many that disappoint and never get there. We need another quality midfielder to work along with Cotchin, Martin and possibly Foley. We need talented outsiders and support players roating though the engine which we just don't have.
What about the forwardline - is Griffiths assured of remaining injury free and making it? What about Astbury - is he a backman or forward? Will Post or Westoff come in? Are our small man stocks sufficent with Taylor, Nahas, Nason and Collins/White?
What I am trying to say is that we still have a huge amount of holes which need to be filled and we need as many quality players on our list pushing for spots as possible because the reality is is that most won't make it. An early pick will almost always assure you of a quality long-term player while the further up the order you are forced, the smaller the chances are. Two players in the 20s would also increase our chances in finding successful players.
I just wish we weren't forced into this position where, being so success-starved, we struggle to see past the short term uphoria of a few meaningless wins instead of enduring the build a bit longer to give us the best chance we have beyond this year.
I doubt we will not win more than 3 but surely people can see beyond the 'team-building' hype and see you need quality materials to work with before you can build anything of exception - that's what early picks are.
Stripes
Many of us are not struggling to see past the euphoria of a few meaningless wins at all Stripes. We are seeing the value in playing to win and what winning brings to the development of good young footballers learning the true meaning of 'team'.
And the early picks are no guarantee of being any better quality. Again, it's who you pick and how you develop them. So why on earth would you forsake an integral part of your development to chase the rainbow of an early draft pick, when there are more good players who get missed at the top end of the draft than those who get taken? Surely the list of players taken outside the Top 5 demonstrates that to you?
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Just wondering if any of the match fixing advocates could list which games from the remainder of the year we deliberately lose and how specifically it should be achieved.
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It's all about playing the percentages smokey. There is a much greater chance of securing quality players with early picks why later picks are a lottery. Whether we win one more game or five will not change our culture. It is how we go about things as a club and as a complete list. This year is meant to be about 'transformation', rebuilding and education not about winning. Hardwick needs to find his teams spine, discover who the pretenders and contenders are, figure out where individuals best positions are and ensure that the whole list understands the game plan and team rules not just the 22 on the park at the moment. How can he do this if winning is the first priority?
We can't get blinded by the moment. We need to keep our eye firmly on the big picture and understand that the draft and development remain our number one priority. When everything is firmly in place then and only then should winning become the ultimate goal.
Stripes
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Just wondering if any of the match fixing advocates could list which games from the remainder of the year we deliberately lose and how specifically it should be achieved.
Easy done al. We play our best team against the best teams until we win a game. Against the weaker teams or after we have won a game we experiment with the list. We alternate and rest our better younger players with unproven youth who the club would like to trial such as Browne, Hicks(elevated), Gourdis(elevated) and Roberts. Trial players in different positions to legitimately see which position they would best be suited in or could play in a pinch.
If after all this we still win well then our list is healthier that we thought, we learnt a great deal about our list and its strengths/weaknesses and we have given our young guns time to recuperate so they are fully fit for the preseason and next year when it really matters.
That's my take at least al. Won't happen but it's what I believe would be best for our future both with draft options and list management.
Stripes
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It's all about playing the percentages smokey. There is a much greater chance of securing quality players with early picks why later picks are a lottery. Whether we win one more game or five will not change our culture. It is how we go about things as a club and as a complete list. This year is meant to be about 'transformation', rebuilding and education not about winning. Hardwick needs to find his teams spine, discover who the pretenders and contenders are, figure out where individuals best positions are and ensure that the whole list understands the game plan and team rules not just the 22 on the park at the moment. How can he do this if winning is the first priority?
We can't get blinded by the moment. We need to keep our eye firmly on the big picture and understand that the draft and development remain our number one priority. When everything is firmly in place then and only then should winning become the ultimate goal.
Stripes
This exactly what is happening and has been happening all season stripes. The thing is now that is starting to make us competitive, which means we can win some games.
It is also most probably what will happen for the rest of the season, meaning that we may win a game or two.
Hardwick said that this isnt about winning and so far it hasnt. I dont expect that to change. All wins are a bonus - to the players, the coaches, club and the supporters.
Me, i'll enjoy each and every one, regardless of how many there are, as long I can see that Hardwick is on the right path.
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It's all about playing the percentages smokey. There is a much greater chance of securing quality players with early picks why later picks are a lottery. Whether we win one more game or five will not change our culture. It is how we go about things as a club and as a complete list. This year is meant to be about 'transformation', rebuilding and education not about winning. Hardwick needs to find his teams spine, discover who the pretenders and contenders are, figure out where individuals best positions are and ensure that the whole list understands the game plan and team rules not just the 22 on the park at the moment. How can he do this if winning is the first priority?
We can't get blinded by the moment. We need to keep our eye firmly on the big picture and understand that the draft and development remain our number one priority. When everything is firmly in place then and only then should winning become the ultimate goal.
Stripes
This exactly what is happening and has been happening all season stripes. The thing is now that is starting to make us competitive, which means we can win some games.
It is also most probably what will happen for the rest of the season, meaning that we may win a game or two.
Hardwick said that this isnt about winning and so far it hasnt. I dont expect that to change. All wins are a bonus - to the players, the coaches, club and the supporters.
Me, i'll enjoy each and every one, regardless of how many there are, as long I can see that Hardwick is on the right path.
Fair call al.
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It's all about playing the percentages smokey. There is a much greater chance of securing quality players with early picks why later picks are a lottery. Whether we win one more game or five will not change our culture. It is how we go about things as a club and as a complete list. This year is meant to be about 'transformation', rebuilding and education not about winning. Hardwick needs to find his teams spine, discover who the pretenders and contenders are, figure out where individuals best positions are and ensure that the whole list understands the game plan and team rules not just the 22 on the park at the moment. How can he do this if winning is the first priority?
We can't get blinded by the moment. We need to keep our eye firmly on the big picture and understand that the draft and development remain our number one priority. When everything is firmly in place then and only then should winning become the ultimate goal.
Stripes
The percentages you talk about do not only apply to the order of the draft pick Stripes, that is the single biggest flaw in the tanking theory. Every piece of the puzzle has it's own cause and effect and if you use all your best endeavors in one area alone - high draft pick via tanking - then you must pay the ferryman at some point, and the trade off of losing games when our kids are trying their guts out but they 'see' their coaches deliberately throwing games by their actions is just not palatable or acceptable to me as a strategy. I think it has major flaws in an environment where you are going to great lengths to teach and breed success.
Hardwick has spent the whole season so far (re)teaching our team the very basics of football as well as a simplified version of his planned, eventual game plan. He has tried many players in different positions and with different roles, and he continues to do that now. Every single week of this season we have seen improvement, small snippets at times and large chunks at other times, but gradual and consistent improvement none the less. He has not comprised his beliefs, his teachings, or our chances of winning any given game in doing that. And here we sit with 3 wins from our last 5 games (should have been 4) with our team now learning how to go about winning games of football - the ultimate lesson to be learned. And Hardwick does not have to deviate from that plan one iota for the rest of the season to have a profound effect on the playing list as a whole. This season has been a nirvana for them in so many areas and so much has been taken on board because the players have been taught trust and belief. And now he should be expected to compromise the very fibre of his message to his list? All for the sake of possibly getting a good player in the draft when he will trust his recruiters to do that anyway, regardless of the pick? The players are not stupid, they know a tank when it happens and by seeing their coach do that they will subconsciously get the message that less then 100% is acceptable at times. Do you honestly think Hardwick would be happy with the opportunity for that message to be delivered?
Percentages and blindness are 2 key areas that the tankers get wrong, big time.
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It's all about playing the percentages smokey. There is a much greater chance of securing quality players with early picks why later picks are a lottery. Whether we win one more game or five will not change our culture. It is how we go about things as a club and as a complete list. This year is meant to be about 'transformation', rebuilding and education not about winning. Hardwick needs to find his teams spine, discover who the pretenders and contenders are, figure out where individuals best positions are and ensure that the whole list understands the game plan and team rules not just the 22 on the park at the moment. How can he do this if winning is the first priority?
We can't get blinded by the moment. We need to keep our eye firmly on the big picture and understand that the draft and development remain our number one priority. When everything is firmly in place then and only then should winning become the ultimate goal.
Stripes
This exactly what is happening and has been happening all season stripes. The thing is now that is starting to make us competitive, which means we can win some games.
It is also most probably what will happen for the rest of the season, meaning that we may win a game or two.
Hardwick said that this isnt about winning and so far it hasnt. I dont expect that to change. All wins are a bonus - to the players, the coaches, club and the supporters.
Me, i'll enjoy each and every one, regardless of how many there are, as long I can see that Hardwick is on the right path.
Fair call al.
You make way to much sense Stripes. :thumbsup
And trying to convince people about list management is like bagging your head against a wall. If they cannot see that getting early draft picks gives you the BEST chance to succeed than what is the point of the draft?? It is why it is designed the way it is.
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There is way too much text on this page
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Have to say some of the posts on this thread have been fantastic :clapping Great discusssion points from both sides
Wouldn't you love another Dustin Martin, Lids or Cotchin in the team?
No doubt I think we all would.
However, the argument seems to be that the only way to get these types of players this year is if we have pick 4. The draft is supposedly deep so who says we wont get a gun with pick 6?
My biggest problem with tanking now (even more so after reading the Hardwick interview in the Age over the weekend) is what price do we pay if we try and lose games now?
Hardwick and the club is clearly trying to build something and one the core elements of this build is respect.
The playing group clearly respects Hardwick and Hardwick also comes across as man with great integrity (again something I took out of the Age article).
What message does it send to our young group if he compromises his integrity and starts playing for losses. What happens to the respect that is clearly being developed and earned at all levels?
Is it really worth jepordising all the gains we've made so far and could make as the year progresses for pick 4?
Pro-tankers will say YEP most definitely but for me right at the moment the answer is NOPE
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Have to say some of the posts on this thread have been fantastic :clapping Great discusssion points from both sides
Wouldn't you love another Dustin Martin, Lids or Cotchin in the team?
No doubt I think we all would.
However, the argument seems to be that the only way to get these types of players this year is if we have pick 4. The draft is supposedly deep so who says we wont get a gun with pick 6?
My biggest problem with tanking now (even more so after reading the Hardwick interview in the Age over the weekend) is what price do we pay if we try and lose games now?
Hardwick and the club is clearly trying to build something and one the core elements of this build is respect.
The playing group clearly respects Hardwick and Hardwick also comes across as man with great integrity (again something I took out of the Age article).
What message does it send to our young group if he compromises his integrity and starts playing for losses. What happens to the respect that is clearly being developed and earned at all levels?
Is it really worth jepordising all the gains we've made so far and could make as the year progresses for pick 4?
Pro-tankers will say YEP most definitely but for me right at the moment the answer is NOPE
I think you can achieve both.
Firstly the players I mentioned were all top 3 draft choices in an uncompromised draft. A later pick may get us a player of similar quality but it is increasing unlikely the higher we go.
In terms of losing player respect and derailing what Harwick has achieved, I think that can be avoided while still retaining last spot. If players are rested and played in alternative positions why would this be alert the players that the club was attempting to position itself for the draft? Hardwick and the Selection Committee have been making decisions such as these all year. Hardwick would not be trying to lose but he would also not be trying to win either - he would be focusing on what is really important, like what he has said he would do, and that is developing and finding a team.
If we win games while playing all the list, including as many rookies as possible, and trialling people in various roles and positions, I'll be happy. The minute winning becomes the number one priority at the expense of development and the 'transformation' process, is the minute Hardwick begins to lose his way and take short cuts.
Holding true to these principals we can achieve development, culture while still perhaps securing a priority pick. Unlikely I know but I can dare to dream can't I?
Stripes
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In terms of losing player respect and derailing what Harwick has achieved, I think that can be avoided while still retaining last spot. If players are rested and played in alternative positions why would this be alert the players that the club was attempting to position itself for the draft? Hardwick and the Selection Committee have been making decisions such as these all year. Hardwick would not be trying to lose but he would also not be trying to win either - he would be focusing on what is really important, like what he has said he would do, and that is developing and finding a team.
I think he has not moved from the development thing (as promised) one iota. Only thing now is things are coming together and the results are reflecting that. He has said all along that our 2nd half of the season was going to be a lot better than the first half and we are seeing that
If we win games while playing all the list, including as many rookies as possible, and trialling people in various roles and positions, I'll be happy. The minute winning becomes the number one priority at the expense of development and the 'transformation' process, is the minute Hardwick begins to lose his way and take short cuts.
I don't think winning is the number one priority and it was never going to be this year. However, as I said things are coming together now as the players get used to the game plan, structures and team rules and the reuslts are refelcting that. As I said if we win, we win and if don't as long as we are competitive.
But I think you are wrong in saying the moment winning becomes the priority then we are taking short cuts - they (wins) aren't shortcuts they are the justified results of a lot of hardwork by alot of people especially a bunch of kids who just want to be successful and they should be encouraged not discouraged
But it seems to me that for some people the idea that if we continue to win is not in the best of the RFC long term. Getting this group to play together as a team is what is important to this club and if that means we win some along the way then so be it
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I don't think winning is the number one priority and it was never going to be this year. However, as I said things are coming together now as the players get used to the game plan, structures and team rules and the reuslts are refelcting that. As I said if we win, we win and if don't as long as we are competitive.
But I think you are wrong in saying the moment winning becomes the priority then we are taking short cuts - they (wins) aren't shortcuts they are the justified results of a lot of hardwork by alot of people especially a bunch of kids who just want to be successful and they should be encouraged not discouraged
But it seems to me that for some people the idea that if we continue to win is not in the best of the RFC long term. Getting this group to play together as a team is what is important to this club and if that means we win some along the way then so be it
But who is to say this group will be good enough in the long run WP?! That is the whole point. 'Pro-Tankers' are not trying to cripple the club by proclaiming loses are better than wins or that encouraging success as a team is a terrible thing but rather that we need more quality players to compliment our list. That is it.
The argument is fairly simple as I see it. You think winning as a team will be better in the long run for our future while I say getting the best possible collection of draft choices so we can get the best young players is the most important thing. In an ideal world you cn have both but in reality, winning now means that we lose on draft day. It's pretty simple. The more we win short term, the more we lose long term with the chances of finding quality players diminished.
I don't know if we have all the players we need. I don't think anyone here can safely speculate that we do. I don't want to take any chances. We need to add depth, we need to add talent and we need to do it this draft. If we make the same mistake this year as we have done in the past and won a few meaningless game only to hurt us long term - it will be a mistake in my eyes.
Stripes
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The problem is, when do we flick that switch and start competing for a flag? When does winning change from a short term view to a long term one? I agree that every team always needs more depth, but at some stage you have to switch mentalities from rebuilding to contention. This is more general than where we are currently, I mean - we're not ready to contend for a flag right now I know!
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The argument is fairly simple as I see it. You think winning as a team will be better in the long run for our future while I say getting the best possible collection of draft choices so we can get the best young players is the most important thing. In an ideal world you cn have both but in reality, winning now means that we lose on draft day. It's pretty simple. The more we win short term, the more we lose long term with the chances of finding quality players diminished.
It seems to me (and correct me if I am wrong) you seem willing to put faith in our ability to develop players that we draft but question whether we can develop what we've got.
Further to that I see the we must lose argument as being flawed in that there is quality deep in this draft you just have to know where to find it - so many seem unwilling to acknowledge that.
Whether we have pick 4 or pick 6 we are going to get a quality kid in this draft - it is a deep draft. Whether we have pick 27, 29 or 30 again we are going a pretty good pick up if our recruiters are smart just like any other year
I understand the argument about needing another good draft to bring in more kids but at the same time I don't think we should be "short circuiting" the development of the kids coming through just so we can sow up pick 4. We need to get the balance right
I will repeat let them play and let's see what happens, if we win; then we win if we don't then I will sit back and enjoy the ride. Reality is we are going to finish somewhere between 16th and 14th no higher so let's just see what happens and enjoy it :thumbsup
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I dont think that Tanking is something we could or should do. In reality it does not make much difference in the draft unless you are prepared to finish with four or less wins for 2 seasons in a row. I cant see that happening at the same time as developing this group, learning the game plan, and changing the culture. These things just dont mix for that long, I wouldnt wont this group to go though two years of that. Two years of that would put thoughts of changing clubs, lack of confidence in team mates, coaches and game plan. These negatives should be taken out of the if possible.
So even though I understand the arguements on both sides its a NO to tanking for me.
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I'd love to finish ahead of the Demons.
I had a cousin giving me the 'don't worry the Tiges will get there one day' speech after the Dee's beat Brisbane and we lost our 5th game.
They're so incredibly insecure about their drafting. Dustin Martin is the best from the 2009 draft is answered with Sculley had 19 touches in a quarter against the Dogs (no mention of the 50% efficiency). Don't even dare try to suggest that Riewoldt is better than Frawley, apparently Riewoldt is inconsistent, while Frawley is the best full back in the land, despite his team losing about 90% of games he's played in.
I'd love to see the handful of Demon supporters try and fathom how the Tigers finished above their so called superstar list.
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The argument is fairly simple as I see it. You think winning as a team will be better in the long run for our future while I say getting the best possible collection of draft choices so we can get the best young players is the most important thing. In an ideal world you cn have both but in reality, winning now means that we lose on draft day. It's pretty simple. The more we win short term, the more we lose long term with the chances of finding quality players diminished.
It seems to me (and correct me if I am wrong) you seem willing to put faith in our ability to develop players that we draft but question whether we can develop what we've got.
Further to that I see the we must lose argument as being flawed in that there is quality deep in this draft you just have to know where to find it - so many seem unwilling to acknowledge that.
Whether we have pick 4 or pick 6 we are going to get a quality kid in this draft - it is a deep draft. Whether we have pick 27, 29 or 30 again we are going a pretty good pick up if our recruiters are smart just like any other year
I understand the argument about needing another good draft to bring in more kids but at the same time I don't think we should be "short circuiting" the development of the kids coming through just so we can sow up pick 4. We need to get the balance right
I will repeat let them play and let's see what happens, if we win; then we win if we don't then I will sit back and enjoy the ride. Reality is we are going to finish somewhere between 16th and 14th no higher so let's just see what happens and enjoy it :thumbsup
My argument is not that we can not develop existing players because the proof that we can is in our teams and individuals growth this year. Players such as Edwards, Gus, Riewoldt and White are all proof of that plus the ability of most our first year players to step up immediately. What I am suggesting though is that probability is not on our side if we believe every single one of our young draftees will develop sufficently to become premiership players.
Players have various levels of potential which sometimes is hard to guage while other times simple. Will Nason ever be the player Martin is? What about Polo while he every be as valuable to us with years of development invested into him as Deledio? The answer is - it is extremely unlikely. While they can all be valuable contibutors to our future, the upside of players is not even and depends on their base talent. This is why first round, and even moreso - top 5 draft picks, are so valuable because the potential upside of the players usually selected is far higher than later picks. Put a list together of first draft selections and compare them to a list of pick 10, 20 or 30. Every now and then a player bursts on to the scene and performs unexpectantly well but these are exceptions not the rule.
I am not saying that we can not uncover good or even very good players later in the draft but the further we drift in the draft the more difficult and unprobable uncovering quality players will become. We can develop average players into good and good into very good but we need as great players which we can develop into stars as we can. That is the difference between pick 4 and pick 8 in my book - the ability to pick who we want rather than who is left. You can't make strawberry jam out of horse manure ;)
In addition I don't think we should field a team to lose. The players should be playing together to win all year. What I am saying is that the administration should select players and recommend positional changes in the effort to continue the teams development...so we lose. You are saying the players aren't silly and that they would see through such a ruse but we have been making similar decisions all year so changes such as these would not seem amiss. If we win then well we did so finding out more about the list and players but if we lose then it would be better for our future list development.
Stripes
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The funny thing is that the most recent draft that can be evaluated with some form of relevance is 2006. I.e. The drafts post 2006 toofew player have played enough yet.
The best two players from that draft went 7 and 13. I'd take pick 13 from 2006 again in a heartbeat.
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The funny thing is that the most recent draft that can be evaluated with some form of relevance is 2006. I.e. The drafts post 2006 toofew player have played enough yet.
The best two players from that draft went 7 and 13. I'd take pick 13 from 2006 again in a heartbeat.
Do you mean from out list or in general?
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If you go through the drafts from the last 6-8 years, I don't think there is much at all between picks 4-7. In fact I think it could be argued that the best players from those picks have been those who went to clubs who draft cleverly and develop players well, e.g. Pendlebury.
I agree it is better to have an early pick than a later one, but after pick 2 or 3 it seems to depend more on having the right system and development culture in place than the natural talent of the player.
I read an interesting book several years ago by Sven-Goran Erikssons team sports shrink at Lazio who said the rarest and most important quality in an athlete is the will to win in all situations. If you have players like this then tanking wont be viable anyway.
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If you go through the drafts from the last 6-8 years, I don't think there is much at all between picks 4-7. In fact I think it could be argued that the best players from those picks have been those who went to clubs who draft cleverly and develop players well, e.g. Pendlebury.
I agree it is better to have an early pick than a later one, but after pick 2 or 3 it seems to depend more on having the right system and development culture in place than the natural talent of the player.
I read an interesting book several years ago by Sven-Goran Erikssons team sports shrink at Lazio who said the rarest and most important quality in an athlete is the will to win in all situations. If you have players like this then tanking wont be viable anyway.
There is no doubt that how your teach and educate players is the most important element of list development but drafting comes a close second. Teams like Collingwood have been successful for so long because of the money they invest into recruiting and development. They find quality players from the draft who they develop to their utmost potential. But their lies a problem of sorts also and is why they seem to over preform during the season but underperform during finals when you would expect players to step up. The continuous difficulty for that club is that their players are developed and coached to perform at their peek week in week out but their peek is not as high as other players from opposition teams who make the extra jump in standard during finals.
Here lies my point. Development and education can only lift a player to a certain level, there utmost potential. Players chosen early in the draft are usually those that already have a very exciting, strong base to grow from. There potential improvement is greater than those who have more to learn or improve which are the player chosen later in the draft. The more stronger, talented players we can choose early the better scope we have to improve them as individuals and therefore the team as a whole.
It's like anything - the better raw materials you have to work with the better the end product. Sure a truly wonderful artist can create a beautiful painting using average paint but if they had superior paint, brushes and canvas to start with - what a truly magnificant masterpiece they could create. :juggle Hardwick appears to be a great coach at the moment, with a strong team beneath him. They are beginning to develop the makings of a masterpiece but they are currently using a mixture of poor, average and superior players. If they could get rid of the poor and as much of the average as they can and bring in as much of the superior as possible, imagine what they could create. Anyone following me here... :o :weights :help
Anyway - I realize the importance of developing culture, game plan and winning ethos but I also see the incredible importance that ensuring we get as many quality picks as possible to give us the best chance to bring the best players we can to our club. This is our last chance to have a good cleanout and add as many quality young players to the list. After this year, regardless, our masterpiece with begin to be painted ;) :P
Stripes
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You can't make strawberry jam out of horse manure ;)
Thank you Caro's dad ;)
In addition I don't think we should field a team to lose. The players should be playing together to win all year. What I am saying is that the administration should select players and recommend positional changes in the effort to continue the teams development...so we lose. You are saying the players aren't silly and that they would see through such a ruse but we have been making similar decisions all year so changes such as these would not seem amiss. If we win then well we did so finding out more about the list and players but if we lose then it would be better for our future list development.
For example promoting and playing Gourdis at FB on Barry Hall and Pavlich in the next two games now that McGuane is out injured. If he struggles we lose; if Goo holds his own and we win then we've found another key defender. Win-win long-term!
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You can't make strawberry jam out of horse manure ;)
Thank you Caro's dad ;)
In addition I don't think we should field a team to lose. The players should be playing together to win all year. What I am saying is that the administration should select players and recommend positional changes in the effort to continue the teams development...so we lose. You are saying the players aren't silly and that they would see through such a ruse but we have been making similar decisions all year so changes such as these would not seem amiss. If we win then well we did so finding out more about the list and players but if we lose then it would be better for our future list development.
For example promoting and playing Gourdis at FB on Barry Hall and Pavlich in the next two games now that McGuane is out injured. If he struggles we lose; if Goo holds his own and we win then we've found another key defender. Win-win long-term!
My thoughts exactly MT. The same can go with Browne - play him on Mumford. If he gets beaten well we lose but either way it develops him as a ruckman and shows us where he sits as a long term prospect after a few weeks. If he is promoted, I'd love to see Hicks in the midfield too after weeks of being in the bests.
Play the youth and we claim the best picks too. What more can you ask for :whistle
Stripes
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The argument is fairly simple as I see it. You think winning as a team will be better in the long run for our future while I say getting the best possible collection of draft choices so we can get the best young players is the most important thing. In an ideal world you cn have both but in reality, winning now means that we lose on draft day. It's pretty simple. The more we win short term, the more we lose long term with the chances of finding quality players diminished.
It seems to me (and correct me if I am wrong) you seem willing to put faith in our ability to develop players that we draft but question whether we can develop what we've got.
Further to that I see the we must lose argument as being flawed in that there is quality deep in this draft you just have to know where to find it - so many seem unwilling to acknowledge that.
Whether we have pick 4 or pick 6 we are going to get a quality kid in this draft - it is a deep draft. Whether we have pick 27, 29 or 30 again we are going a pretty good pick up if our recruiters are smart just like any other year
I understand the argument about needing another good draft to bring in more kids but at the same time I don't think we should be "short circuiting" the development of the kids coming through just so we can sow up pick 4. We need to get the balance right
I will repeat let them play and let's see what happens, if we win; then we win if we don't then I will sit back and enjoy the ride. Reality is we are going to finish somewhere between 16th and 14th no higher so let's just see what happens and enjoy it :thumbsup
What makes me laugh about this debate (tanking) is the fact that we have won 3 games of late against shyt sides and now people think we have the list to be a contender. Before that we lost 9 in a row. Let me tell you people we are half way in terms of a list to compete for final and grand finals.
Don’t kid yourselves people, this stuff does not happen overnight and the sooner Tiger supporters realise this the better and let me tell you another thing Richmond supporters are the worst in the league for over estimating our lists. Not only do we need to tank this year but next year too. It seems to me that older Richmond supporters seem to take this the hardest. They want to talk about culture and crap but if you don’t have the cattle, it all fails into significance.
As good as Hardwick has been this year and the development he has produced in many of our young kids, he would give his right nut for the chance to have the best pick come November. We can develop to a certain point but this list will only take us so far. We need another two years at least of good kids and a whole lot of luck to be able to compete with the likes of The Western Bulldogs, Collingwood or even the Saints...... And then there is Geelong.
I think Stripes has made some really good and easy to follow ways tanking can be achieved without Hardwick losing any respect from the players or club. Melbourne have done this perfectly over the last 3 to 4 years and now have the list IMO to be able to compete with the big boys. They will take time to develop and grow their bodies but they are heading in the right direction and they are 3 years and better drafts in front of us. FACT!
The RFC needs to be smart and look to the future not the present.
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I've posted this in the U18 Champs thread but I'll post it here also so people see it.
According to BF, due to Etihad Stadium's surface being stuffed, the AFL has moved the last round of U18 Champs away from Etihad that was scheduled for next Wednesday :(.
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=10989.msg195218#msg195218
· Div 2 matches will have to be played at Visy Park on Tuesday 29 June – at 12.30pm (Qld v NT) and 2.30pm (Tas v NSW/ACT) - (4 x 20 minute quarters). For this game, to assist workload we would be comfortable for teams to play up to 25 provided both teams have equal numbers.
· Div 1 matches will be played at Skilled Stadium, Geelong on Wed 30 June – 12.30pm (Vic M v WA) and 2.30pm (Vic C v SA) - (4 x 20 minute quarters)
· There will be no AFLPA Parents information session, as schedule for 8.15am at Etihad on Wed.
Therefore, in fairness to the Div 2 teams who now have a day’s less break, we will reduce all Rd 4 matches to 4 x 20 minute quarters at Visy Park .
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Here's an article on Andrew Gaff who is one of the kids we'll look consider using our first pick on....
Andrew Gaff - The loaded gun
* Jay Clark
* From: Sunday Herald Sun
* June 27, 2010
(http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2010/06/26/1225884/687638-andrew-gaff.jpg)
Andrew Gaff is concentrating on taking the best option. Source: Herald Sun
WHEN Andrew Gaff gut-runs through the midfield, the bleak draft landscape confronting clubs this year begins to brighten.
The workaholic onballer is not only the most consistently performed teen of this year's talent pool, he remains a genuine chance of slipping through the Gold Coast net.
Tipped to fall somewhere between picks four and six, the left-footer likened to Luke Power is Victoria's most accomplished underage midfield prospect.
While Gaff happily admits he may not have the flair of some of his counterparts, his workmanlike game style remains a triumph in simplicity.
"There is no point trying to pinpoint a bullet pass over a few guys' heads if it is not the best option," he said.
"You've got to play the percentages.
"Whether that is kicking to a one-on-one to the goal square or chip 20m to a teammate who can play on in space, I pride myself on my skills."
An impressively level-headed scholar from Kew, Gaff has blitzed this year's under-18 national championships.
Over four games, he averaged 28 possessions at 79 per cent efficiency, and averaged 117 SuperCoach points.
"It's all about work rate for him," AIS-AFL high performance coach Jason McCartney said.
"He covers the ground and reads the play so well, and his attention to detail is as good as any AFL player."
While Harley Bennell, Sam Day and David Swallow are likely to be the Gold Coast's first three draft picks, Gaff would be a glittering prize for the club that collects the wooden spoon. Indeed, his selection may almost be worth finishing last.
Recruiters have marvelled at Gaff's endurance, slipping seamlessly from end-to-end-of the ground, and ability to play in and outside midfield roles.
Although the running machine will be long gone by Geelong's first selection, he is a player who has very much been cut in the Cats' mould.
"He may not have one outstanding attribute, but he does tick all the boxes and is very disciplined playing his role," Oakleigh regional manager Stephen Conole said.
"But his ability to gut-run is probably his biggest point of difference."
Gaff said his top-line fitness base was the result of a meticulous approach to training.
"It's a matter of getting into good habits," Gaff said.
"Sprinting to the cones and getting in around behind them at training, not being lazy and walking between drills.
"Those are the things that hold you in good stead."
His leadership and courage were also outstanding features of his game, according to Oakleigh coach Steven Grace.
"One game he ran back into the path of two oncoming talls and took an unflinching mark," Grace said.
"He got absolutely flattened but he got up and just slotted the goal."
In a national draft resembling a game of increasingly high stakes, national talent manager Kevin Sheehan rated Gaff one of the safest bets.
"He's driven, organised, disciplined. They are the traits of successful players and you cant help but think there are no faults here."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/the-loaded-gun/story-e6frf9jf-1225884688360
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we wont get pick 4 , we will not finish last!!!
and rightly so, tanking does not work
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we wont get pick 4 , we will not finish last!!!
I agree. As much as I hope we do finish last and engineer some loses on the back of onfield experimentation, I don't think it will happen. Part of Hardwicks coaching methodology is a simple, focused game plan and set of team rules which should be able to executed regardless of positional changes. I think the only way we will finish last this year is if Adelaide and West Coast decide wins on the board are the most important focus for them this year (doubtful to say the least :'() and we have some bad luck with injuries to key players such as Martin, Gus and Riewoldt.
I actually believe that, even busting a gut, we will struggle to win more than 3 more this year. The last few wins against weak sides have coloured many of our judgements so all we will achieve with these wins is 14th spot rather than 16th! A great result won't you say! :thumbsup
and rightly so, tanking does not work
The teams that have tanked are Hawthorn, Carlton and Melbourne in my books. It's worked for the Hawks because they have players of the right age, Carlton and Melborne have strong, young sides because of it but the proof won't be in the pudding until (like us) the majority of their list is at the mid-age range. Time will tell but its more about the amount of talent you bring through at once rather than a few star players. Star players are more the cherry on the cake and are elevated by those around them which is why Richo could never drag us into the finals. Melbourne is best positioned because they stayed down their long enough and chose well later in the draft with their early round selections.
'Tanking' is about playing the system that most clubs attempt to manipulate. To complete and win you need every advantage you can get and while we're in the position to take advantage of it - I think we would be crazy not to...
Stripes
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the hawks didnt tank, they just had a real poo yr and finished 2nd last, we got the sppon that yr but they recruited and traded real well, we didnt
cartlon melbourne and the saints have tanked and none of them will win a granny
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we wont get pick 4 , we will not finish last!!!
and rightly so, tanking does not work
Maybe, Maybe not.
We can still win games, just hope that Adelaide and West Coast win as many as we do.
:thumbsup
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we wont get pick 4 , we will not finish last!!!
and rightly so, tanking does not work
Maybe, Maybe not.
We can still win games, just hope that Adelaide and West Coast win as many as we do.
:thumbsup
[/quote
true
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If Jack or Deledio/Cotchin/Martin get injured we will struggle to win games....
In fact in the long run it might do the club hierarchy good to see it happen.
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Andrew Gaff is #6 for Vic Metro
Shaun Atley is #32 for Vic Country
(http://images.slatterymedia.com/images/thumbs/main/211296.jpg)
Joel Wilkinson of Queensland, Steven May of the Northern Territory, Shaun Atley of Vic Country, Seb Tape of South Australia, Andrew Gaff of Vic Metro, Reece Conca of Western Australia, Anthony Miles of NSW/ACT and Josh Green of Tasmania pose for a photo at AFL House in Melbourne.
More pics here:
Andrew Gaff
http://images.slatterymedia.com/image/?image_id=211297
http://images.slatterymedia.com/image/?image_id=211297
Shaun Atley
http://images.slatterymedia.com/image/?image_id=211302
http://images.slatterymedia.com/image/?image_id=211303
http://images.slatterymedia.com/image/?image_id=211304
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Joel Wilkinson of Queensland, Steven May of the Northern Territory, Shaun Atley of Vic Country, Seb Tape of South Australia, Andrew Gaff of Vic Metro, Reece Conca of Western Australia, Anthony Miles of NSW/ACT and Josh Green of Tasmania pose for a photo at AFL House in Melbourne.
Is Seb Tape any relation to ex-RFC Jamie?
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The final round of the Under 18 Championships will be on Fox Sports this Wednesday from 12.30 AEST, on SEN 1116 or on the AFL website.
Vic Metro v Western Australia 12.35pm, Skilled Stadium
Vic Country v South Australia 2.45pm, Skilled Stadium
Kevin 'Shifter' Sheehan also had a live chat about the U18s this arvo on the AFL site discussing the potential draftees...
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=11527.0
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I agree that it is exciting to see the kids developing and winning together but make no mistake I am certain we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet. Have we really kid ourselves into believing that we have enough quality midfielders? Do we look at Jack and say that our forwardline is set for the future? What about our ruck and backline?
Sure we have players developing and coming through all the time but we have equally as many that disappoint and never get there. We need another quality midfielder to work along with Cotchin, Martin and possibly Foley. We need talented outsiders and support players roating though the engine which we just don't have.
What about the forwardline - is Griffiths assured of remaining injury free and making it? What about Astbury - is he a backman or forward? Will Post or Westoff come in? Are our small man stocks sufficent with Taylor, Nahas, Nason and Collins/White?
What I am trying to say is that we still have a huge amount of holes which need to be filled and we need as many quality players on our list pushing for spots as possible because the reality is is that most won't make it. An early pick will almost always assure you of a quality long-term player while the further up the order you are forced, the smaller the chances are. Two players in the 20s would also increase our chances in finding successful players.
I just wish we weren't forced into this position where, being so success-starved, we struggle to see past the short term uphoria of a few meaningless wins instead of enduring the build a bit longer to give us the best chance we have beyond this year.
I doubt we will not win more than 3 but surely people can see beyond the 'team-building' hype and see you need quality materials to work with before you can build anything of exception - that's what early picks are.
Stripes
Quality, quality post. Still can't believe people get sucked into the 'winning culture' crap argument. My God, when will we ever learn. Did alot of good last year winning 8 out of last 11. Maximizing the draft while we can will give us the best chance to get the best possible players on our list. I want premierships; not get crap meaningless wins at the the end of the year that will restrict us to being an average team stuck in the middle of the ladder for the next decade.
GO TIGES!!!
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I agree that it is exciting to see the kids developing and winning together but make no mistake I am certain we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet. Have we really kid ourselves into believing that we have enough quality midfielders? Do we look at Jack and say that our forwardline is set for the future? What about our ruck and backline?
Sure we have players developing and coming through all the time but we have equally as many that disappoint and never get there. We need another quality midfielder to work along with Cotchin, Martin and possibly Foley. We need talented outsiders and support players roating though the engine which we just don't have.
What about the forwardline - is Griffiths assured of remaining injury free and making it? What about Astbury - is he a backman or forward? Will Post or Westoff come in? Are our small man stocks sufficent with Taylor, Nahas, Nason and Collins/White?
What I am trying to say is that we still have a huge amount of holes which need to be filled and we need as many quality players on our list pushing for spots as possible because the reality is is that most won't make it. An early pick will almost always assure you of a quality long-term player while the further up the order you are forced, the smaller the chances are. Two players in the 20s would also increase our chances in finding successful players.
I just wish we weren't forced into this position where, being so success-starved, we struggle to see past the short term uphoria of a few meaningless wins instead of enduring the build a bit longer to give us the best chance we have beyond this year.
I doubt we will not win more than 3 but surely people can see beyond the 'team-building' hype and see you need quality materials to work with before you can build anything of exception - that's what early picks are.
Stripes
Quality, quality post. Still can't believe people get sucked into the 'winning culture' crap argument. My God, when will we ever learn. Did alot of good last year winning 8 out of last 11. Maximizing the draft while we can will give us the best chance to get the best possible players on our list. I want premierships; not get crap meaningless wins at the the end of the year that will restrict us to being an average team stuck in the middle of the ladder for the next decade.
GO TIGES!!!
Tank away and want away - you'll be doing both for the rest of your life without any satisfaction if you think tanking will cure our ills. Still haven't seen a premiership won by a team that did it and I doubt I ever will. I can't believe that people still get sucked into the 'tanking rules' argument when tanking has not been the cause of one premiership flag since the notion raised it's pyrite-encrusted head. We finish middle of the road because we do a hell of a lot of things wrong, not because we try to win meaningless games. And tanking will not fix one poofteenth of those problems.
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Quality, quality post. Still can't believe people get sucked into the 'winning culture' crap argument. My God, when will we ever learn. Did alot of good last year winning 8 out of last 11. Maximizing the draft while we can will give us the best chance to get the best possible players on our list. I want premierships; not get crap meaningless wins at the the end of the year that will restrict us to being an average team stuck in the middle of the ladder for the next decade.
GO TIGES!!!
Are you sure we won 8 out of the last 11 last year?
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I agree that it is exciting to see the kids developing and winning together but make no mistake I am certain we do not have all the pieces of the puzzle yet. Have we really kid ourselves into believing that we have enough quality midfielders? Do we look at Jack and say that our forwardline is set for the future? What about our ruck and backline?
Sure we have players developing and coming through all the time but we have equally as many that disappoint and never get there. We need another quality midfielder to work along with Cotchin, Martin and possibly Foley. We need talented outsiders and support players roating though the engine which we just don't have.
What about the forwardline - is Griffiths assured of remaining injury free and making it? What about Astbury - is he a backman or forward? Will Post or Westoff come in? Are our small man stocks sufficent with Taylor, Nahas, Nason and Collins/White?
What I am trying to say is that we still have a huge amount of holes which need to be filled and we need as many quality players on our list pushing for spots as possible because the reality is is that most won't make it. An early pick will almost always assure you of a quality long-term player while the further up the order you are forced, the smaller the chances are. Two players in the 20s would also increase our chances in finding successful players.
I just wish we weren't forced into this position where, being so success-starved, we struggle to see past the short term uphoria of a few meaningless wins instead of enduring the build a bit longer to give us the best chance we have beyond this year.
I doubt we will not win more than 3 but surely people can see beyond the 'team-building' hype and see you need quality materials to work with before you can build anything of exception - that's what early picks are.
Stripes
Quality, quality post. Still can't believe people get sucked into the 'winning culture' crap argument. My God, when will we ever learn. Did alot of good last year winning 8 out of last 11. Maximizing the draft while we can will give us the best chance to get the best possible players on our list. I want premierships; not get crap meaningless wins at the the end of the year that will restrict us to being an average team stuck in the middle of the ladder for the next decade.
GO TIGES!!!
Tank away and want away - you'll be doing both for the rest of your life without any satisfaction if you think tanking will cure our ills. Still haven't seen a premiership won by a team that did it and I doubt I ever will. I can't believe that people still get sucked into the 'tanking rules' argument when tanking has not been the cause of one premiership flag since the notion raised it's pyrite-encrusted head. We finish middle of the road because we do a hell of a lot of things wrong, not because we try to win meaningless games. And tanking will not fix one poofteenth of those problems.
Richmond will be the first and only team to win a Premiership from Tanking!
Pick 4 (Richmond) Andrew Gaff! lock it in!
:thumbsup
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To win a premiership you've got to start winning some time.
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Andrew Gaff, Shaun Atley and even Luke Parker and Jack Darling who will all be around our first pick mark are all playing today. Tune into Foxsports now to watch the U18 Champs.
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Gaff must be our man. Forget about the rest
with a solid midfield you can build a premiership team. Our midfield would look unbelievable with him in it.
Gaff next to Cotch, Martin, Gaff, Lids. You try tagging those 4. No worries
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Gaff must be our man. Forget about the rest
with a solid midfield you can build a premiership team. Our midfield would look unbelievable with him in it.
Gaff next to Cotch, Martin, Gaff, Lids. You try tagging those 4. No worries
On what I saw today, its an average bunch across the board. I rated Smith from SA the best midfielder I saw today, Gorringe has good movement for a ruck, Harper has X factor but hip problems? Overall its a pretty disappointing bunch based on todays efforts, GC have well and truly taken the cream out of the draft :'(
So its Brodie Smith for mine. He'll play 150 to 200 games of footy- the safest bet in the draft from what I saw today.
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Liam Pickering and Jason McCartney's top 15 mentioned today after the Champs ....
1. David Swallow ........... already signed with Gold Coast
2. Harley Bennell ............ 02/10/92 180 70 (WA)
3. Sam Day ................... 06/09/92 195 90 (SA)
4. Daniel Gorringe .......... 02/06/92 198 85 (SA)
5. Scott Lycett .............. 26/09/92 202 95 (SA)
6. Andrew Gaff .............. 16/06/92 183 78 (Vic M)
7. Jared Polec ................ 12/10/92 188 77 (SA)
8. Kieran Harper ............. 05/06/92 187 78 (Vic M)
9. Lucas Cook ................ 03/03/92 194 82 (Vic C)
10. Jack Darling .............. 16/06/92 190 86 (WA)
11. Shaun Atley .............. 13/09/92 187 82 (Vic C)
12. Patrick McCarthy ...... 11/03/92 194 79 (SA)
13. Luke Parker .............. 25/10/92 182 82 (Vic C)
14. Blayne Wilson ........... 26/01/92 187 80 (WA)
15. Jayden Pitt ............... 07/10/92 187 70 (Vic C)
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Liam Pickering and Jason McCartney's top 15 mentioned today after the Champs ....
1. David Swallow ........... already signed with Gold Coast
2. Harley Bennell ............ 02/10/92 180 70 (WA)
3. Sam Day ................... 06/09/92 195 90 (SA)
4. Daniel Gorringe .......... 02/06/92 198 85 (SA)
5. Scott Lycett .............. 26/09/92 202 95 (SA)
6. Andrew Gaff .............. 16/06/92 183 78 (Vic M)
7. Jared Polec ................ 12/10/92 188 77 (SA)
8. Kieran Harper ............. 05/06/92 187 78 (Vic M)
9. Lucas Cook ................ 03/03/92 194 82 (Vic C)
10. Jack Darling .............. 16/06/92 190 86 (WA)
11. Shaun Atley .............. 13/09/92 187 82 (Vic C)
12. Patrick McCarthy ...... 11/03/92 194 79 (SA)
13. Luke Parker .............. 25/10/92 182 82 (Vic C)
14. Blayne Wilson ........... 26/01/92 187 80 (WA)
15. Jayden Pitt ............... 07/10/92 187 70 (Vic C)
OE - thanks for this. Is this the actual order thwy placed them in or just the 15 in no particular order?
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Im amazed Smith isnt in that lot, clearly a better player than afew on that list based of course solely on what we saw yesterday. Smith inside mid (IMHO you can never have enough) with a 2nd gear and really good speed when breaking from the contest.
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I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
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Liam Pickering and Jason McCartney's top 15 mentioned today after the Champs ....
1. David Swallow ........... already signed with Gold Coast
2. Harley Bennell ............ 02/10/92 180 70 (WA)
3. Sam Day ................... 06/09/92 195 90 (SA)
4. Daniel Gorringe .......... 02/06/92 198 85 (SA)
5. Scott Lycett .............. 26/09/92 202 95 (SA)
6. Andrew Gaff .............. 16/06/92 183 78 (Vic M)
7. Jared Polec ................ 12/10/92 188 77 (SA)
8. Kieran Harper ............. 05/06/92 187 78 (Vic M)
9. Lucas Cook ................ 03/03/92 194 82 (Vic C)
10. Jack Darling .............. 16/06/92 190 86 (WA)
11. Shaun Atley .............. 13/09/92 187 82 (Vic C)
12. Patrick McCarthy ...... 11/03/92 194 79 (SA)
13. Luke Parker .............. 25/10/92 182 82 (Vic C)
14. Blayne Wilson ........... 26/01/92 187 80 (WA)
15. Jayden Pitt ............... 07/10/92 187 70 (Vic C)
OE - thanks for this. Is this the actual order thwy placed them in or just the 15 in no particular order?
It's the actual order they gave Stripes :).
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Btw here's Emma Quayle's opinion who follows the U18s each year for the Age....
"It's official, Shaun Atley is my favourite this year. Every time I think "who was that?" it's him
My favourites (to this point): Atley, Day, Bennell, Jacobs, Gaff, Lycett, Gorringe, Lamb, Heppell, Smith, Darling, Wallis, Harper..
Smedts, Hallahan, Parker look ok too"
http://twitter.com/emmasq
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Shaun Atleys got my vote too.
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I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
Looked like a player you get to finish a rebuild ... at this stage we should be going for safe bets, smith, atley, gaff seem like safe bets
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I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
Looked like a player you get to finish a rebuild ... at this stage we should be going for safe bets, smith, atley, gaff seem like safe bets
the rebuild should be about done.
If we cannot get the building blocks in place from 2004-2010 then what chance do we have?
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We should get Gaff or Atley, there has been some raps on Cook but for some reason Darling has dropped down the pecking order.
I get the feel thet even if we play the kids we wont get pick 4 which is a win all round anyway - winning games with an under 23 side! If this the case we might be looking at pick 8?
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I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
Looked like a player you get to finish a rebuild ... at this stage we should be going for safe bets, smith, atley, gaff seem like safe bets
the rebuild should be about done.
If we cannot get the building blocks in place from 2004-2010 then what chance do we have?
2004 draft was diabolical, the Oakley Nicholls, Hughes and Casserley Draft even more so .... we need more safe bets, rebuilds not done yet imo- mainly because of the mistakes of the Wallace and Miller era between 2004 and 2007.
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05 we have to hope White turns out to be at least a good deapth footballer.
Graham might turn out to be one of the stronger ruckman from the 05 draft pool. Via the rookie draft.
Like it or not thursfield, mcgaune, deledio, tambling, polo already have games under the belt and will be core of our list
I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
Looked like a player you get to finish a rebuild ... at this stage we should be going for safe bets, smith, atley, gaff seem like safe bets
the rebuild should be about done.
If we cannot get the building blocks in place from 2004-2010 then what chance do we have?
2004 draft was diabolical, the Oakley Nicholls, Hughes and Casserley Draft even more so .... we need more safe bets, rebuilds not done yet imo- mainly because of the mistakes of the Wallace and Miller era between 2004 and 2007.
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05 we have to hope White turns out to be at least a good deapth footballer.
Graham might turn out to be one of the stronger ruckman from the 05 draft pool. Via the rookie draft.
Like it or not thursfield, mcgaune, deledio, tambling, polo already have games under the belt and will be core of our list
I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
Looked like a player you get to finish a rebuild ... at this stage we should be going for safe bets, smith, atley, gaff seem like safe bets
the rebuild should be about done.
If we cannot get the building blocks in place from 2004-2010 then what chance do we have?
2004 draft was diabolical, the Oakley Nicholls, Hughes and Casserley Draft even more so .... we need more safe bets, rebuilds not done yet imo- mainly because of the mistakes of the Wallace and Miller era between 2004 and 2007.
theres been some problem with the quotes- the bottom one is mine.
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I'm praying for Bennell to slip to our pick
Looked like a player you get to finish a rebuild ... at this stage we should be going for safe bets, smith, atley, gaff seem like safe bets
the rebuild should be about done.
If we cannot get the building blocks in place from 2004-2010 then what chance do we have?
cant understand how you can say the rebuild is about done. Wallace screwed us over and Jack goes down Sunday who is going to kick our goals.
We have too many unknowns.
Post, Rance. Griffiths looks a type but how do we know after a few games. We still have big holes in both the back half and front.
Jack aside
You cannot say the rebuild is done no way. Its nearly there but one more year and a few good draft selections like the one we have had just had and we will be right.
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agree with Daniel ... need another 2 national drafts before its done, with about 18 new kids onto the list over the next 2 years.
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agree with Daniel ... need another 2 national drafts before its done, with about 18 new kids onto the list over the next 2 years.
i cant understand how it can be said when Griffiths has played only a few games. How do we know what he will end up like?
Astbury ditto
The last thing we want is to have another Richo on our hands where if Jack kicks no goals we lose, we struggle to kick a winning score.
A rebuild is complete when i see Griffiths, Astbury and Post dominate games and kick multiple scores. When Jack does it on his own i say the rebuild is not even half complete.
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agree with Daniel ... need another 2 national drafts before its done, with about 18 new kids onto the list over the next 2 years.
what 18 players u going delist ?
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So who are the Martins, Cunningtons, Morabitos, Tom Scullys and Jack Trengoves of the future?
Mark down Harley Bennell from Western Australia. Sam Day and Brodie Smith from South Australia. Adam Treloar, Dyson Heppell and Mitch Hallahan from Vic Country. Andrew Gaff from Vic Metro. Sam Darley from Tasmania.
............
This time last year, the Vic Country under-18 team had a midfield that consisted of Dustin Martin, Ben Cunnington and Ryan Bastinac. When I asked Hyde what position Martin played for him, he answered, in his typical drawl, "Anywhere he bloody well wanted to."
Full article at:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/class-acts-ready-to-graduate-20100702-zu4f.html
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agree with Daniel ... need another 2 national drafts before its done, with about 18 new kids onto the list over the next 2 years.
what 18 players u going delist ?
About 10 this year and then another 8 or so next year ... either by way or trade.
In the next 2 years all these players could be gone either by retirement, delisting or trading
McMahon - gone 100%
Polo - Isnt going anywhere with us and needs a new start somewhere else
Hislop - Average player IMHO, struggled at Essendon, hasnt shown much with us in 2 years and injured
King - Richmond needs to find a better player for the role King plays, a couple of good games in 2 years
Thomson - should be gone 100% wont take us to the next step
Cousins - will probably retire
White -
Dea - didnt show anything in his few games, not all juniors make it.
Hicks - to small and we have enough already of this type
Gilligan - Where is he?
Roberts - I think he'll get delisted, physically not prepared for AFL Footy. Hardwick wont accept it going forward.
Polak- Will retire, should retire, we looked after him after injury but its all over.
Thursfield - Just a stopper now, for a fair trade he is very much tradeable
Jackson - Butchers the footy, for a fair trade he is very much tradeable
Tuck - Late 20s now, going well for the moment, he wont win us a flag and for the right trade why not?
Nahas - Will probably survive but we need a classier player in this role if we wanna win a flag
Moore- late 20s I would trade now, he's shown us whatever he was gonna show us.
Rance - Cant find a position, struggles to kick the footy, not all junior players make it.
Foley - Injury prone now, Ankles are poohouse injuries for footy players that can wreck players, Id trade for the right price.
Then theres players drafted in the next drafts that wont make it. Getting 18 to 20 isnt all that hard.
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agree with Daniel ... need another 2 national drafts before its done, with about 18 new kids onto the list over the next 2 years.
what 18 players u going delist ?
About 10 this year and then another 8 or so next year ... either by way or trade.
In the next 2 years all these players could be gone either by retirement, delisting or trading
McMahon - gone 100%
Polo - Isnt going anywhere with us and needs a new start somewhere else
Hislop - Average player IMHO, struggled at Essendon, hasnt shown much with us in 2 years and injured
King - Richmond needs to find a better player for the role King plays, a couple of good games in 2 years
Thomson - should be gone 100% wont take us to the next step
Cousins - will probably retire
White -
Dea - didnt show anything in his few games, not all juniors make it.
Hicks - to small and we have enough already of this type
Gilligan - Where is he?
Roberts - I think he'll get delisted, physically not prepared for AFL Footy. Hardwick wont accept it going forward.
Polak- Will retire, should retire, we looked after him after injury but its all over.
Thursfield - Just a stopper now, for a fair trade he is very much tradeable
Jackson - Butchers the footy, for a fair trade he is very much tradeable
Tuck - Late 20s now, going well for the moment, he wont win us a flag and for the right trade why not?
Nahas - Will probably survive but we need a classier player in this role if we wanna win a flag
Moore- late 20s I would trade now, he's shown us whatever he was gonna show us.
Rance - Cant find a position, struggles to kick the footy, not all junior players make it.
Foley - Injury prone now, Ankles are poohouse injuries for footy players that can wreck players, Id trade for the right price.
Then theres players drafted in the next drafts that wont make it. Getting 18 to 20 isnt all that hard.
I agree with you on the number of players we still need to turn over Ramps, especially in the next draft/trade period however your comments re: Hicks interest me. How can you say he should/will be moved on when he hasn't had his chance yet to show us what he's got? And if you remove Nahas as you suggest, then just how many "enough already of this type" do we have? Also, you suggest that Hicks is too small - he is 3 cm taller than Eddie Betts and 9kgs lighter - surely you have to give him a couple of pre-seasons to fill out and mature before condemning him for being too small? I reported in another post that the football department rate him very highly and are very confident he has the ability to make it - Danny Daly's words.
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agree with Daniel ... need another 2 national drafts before its done, with about 18 new kids onto the list over the next 2 years.
what 18 players u going delist ?
About 10 this year and then another 8 or so next year ... either by way or trade.
In the next 2 years all these players could be gone either by retirement, delisting or trading
McMahon - gone 100%
Polo - Isnt going anywhere with us and needs a new start somewhere else
Hislop - Average player IMHO, struggled at Essendon, hasnt shown much with us in 2 years and injured
King - Richmond needs to find a better player for the role King plays, a couple of good games in 2 years
Thomson - should be gone 100% wont take us to the next step
Cousins - will probably retire
White -
Dea - didnt show anything in his few games, not all juniors make it.
Hicks - to small and we have enough already of this type
Gilligan - Where is he?
Roberts - I think he'll get delisted, physically not prepared for AFL Footy. Hardwick wont accept it going forward.
Polak- Will retire, should retire, we looked after him after injury but its all over.
Thursfield - Just a stopper now, for a fair trade he is very much tradeable
Jackson - Butchers the footy, for a fair trade he is very much tradeable
Tuck - Late 20s now, going well for the moment, he wont win us a flag and for the right trade why not?
Nahas - Will probably survive but we need a classier player in this role if we wanna win a flag
Moore- late 20s I would trade now, he's shown us whatever he was gonna show us.
Rance - Cant find a position, struggles to kick the footy, not all junior players make it.
Foley - Injury prone now, Ankles are poohouse injuries for footy players that can wreck players, Id trade for the right price.
Then theres players drafted in the next drafts that wont make it. Getting 18 to 20 isnt all that hard.
I agree with you on the number of players we still need to turn over Ramps, especially in the next draft/trade period however your comments re: Hicks interest me. How can you say he should/will be moved on when he hasn't had his chance yet to show us what he's got? And if you remove Nahas as you suggest, then just how many "enough already of this type" do we have? Also, you suggest that Hicks is too small - he is 3 cm taller than Eddie Betts and 9kgs lighter - surely you have to give him a couple of pre-seasons to fill out and mature before condemning him for being too small? I reported in another post that the football department rate him very highly and are very confident he has the ability to make it - Danny Daly's words.
Yesterday I wrote up 18 as a number it could have been 15 ... theres 2 or 3 that are borderline cases and Foley wouldnt be on it if he wasnt injured, forgot to include Simmonds who has already gone. Hicks, its not about this particular player- youll note that I put Nahas and Gilligan and Roberts and King on the list, Its just an opinion but I think we have to many of this type of player and none are really the type that can help win us a flag- thats all. Is Hicks capable of helping us win a flag? Anyway I was asked to put up a list, I did a quick list, in the end, Its just an opinion that doesnt have a lot of weight to it anyway, Hardwick will decide in the end, and thats how it should be, its his club, his team and his future! I hope he doesnt fall for the same crap that all the other coaches over the past 20 years have fallen for, a few players who should go or be traded play a few good games and then they get kept on! These players IMHO cant win us a flag and wont help us win a flag and therefore Id prefer to see more kids come through in the draft.
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Yesterday I wrote up 18 as a number it could have been 15 ... theres 2 or 3 that are borderline cases and Foley wouldnt be on it if he wasnt injured, forgot to include Simmonds who has already gone. Hicks, its not about this particular player- youll note that I put Nahas and Gilligan and Roberts and King on the list, Its just an opinion but I think we have to many of this type of player and none are really the type that can help win us a flag- thats all. Is Hicks capable of helping us win a flag? Anyway I was asked to put up a list, I did a quick list, in the end, Its just an opinion that doesnt have a lot of weight to it anyway, Hardwick will decide in the end, and thats how it should be, its his club, his team and his future! I hope he doesnt fall for the same crap that all the other coaches over the past 20 years have fallen for, a few players who should go or be traded play a few good games and then they get kept on! These players IMHO cant win us a flag and wont help us win a flag and therefore Id prefer to see more kids come through in the draft.
Yeah, all good Ramps and as I said I do agree with you at large. It just stood out to me that you included Hicks who I intend to have a much closer look at after hearing Daly speak about him in Brisbane. I think the small crumbing forward type is a classic area in our list where we need to be continually turning them over at this point. We have Nahas, Nason, King, Roberts and Gilligan which numbers-wise is plenty but in reality only Nahas and Nason have shown anything and not enough yet to say either are a permanent solution. If Hicks is as good as the football department think then he should very well be capable of helping us win our next flag and I even think that there is a place for both him (if he's any good) and Nason because Nason shows enough potential to be more of a running midfielder anyway.
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I dont mind Nason as a player, can see him being more a team player than the rest of the small guys I named.
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Dea is the youngest footballer on the Richmond list. He had the build of a Greek god, for his age. You would give him a few pre seasons to come good before thinking about moving him on. Hardwicks 4th pick.
Hicks is very small but crazy fast. 2nd youngest player on rfc list. He is going ok at coburg and seems to be smooth.
Rance & Post are both 20 year of age.
White should be keep cause only pass from 05 draft
relton Roberts should be given another chance. Has lots of upside
Moore at 26 and 3 month is more mid than late 20s.
The drafts comming up will be weak due to the new teams. I doubt you will have many options better than nahas, thursfield, jackson long term. We have had our chance get get our list together.
Give foley 2011 season before saying he gone
* why did you not include westhoff ?
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Dea is the youngest footballer on the Richmond list. He had the build of a Greek god, for his age. You would give him a few pre seasons to come good before thinking about moving him on. Hardwicks 4th pick.
Hicks is very small but crazy fast. 2nd youngest player on rfc list. He is going ok at coburg and seems to be smooth.
Rance & Post are both 20 year of age.
White should be keep cause only pass from 05 draft
relton Roberts should be given another chance. Has lots of upside
Moore at 26 and 3 month is more mid than late 20s.
The drafts comming up will be weak due to the new teams. I doubt you will have many options better than nahas, thursfield, jackson long term. We have had our chance get get our list together.
Give foley 2011 season before saying he gone
* why did you not include westhoff ?
Dea even for a junior player made mistakes that you see from other footballers the same age. Hope he makes it, but in the end he'll just be a flanker, theres plenty that can be found in any draft.
Seen Hicks play, kicking is average, we would need an upgrade to him going forward.
Rance and Post may be young and Hardwick will probably give them lots of chances but they dont look like players who can become dominant key position players.
White is going ok, he could be kept as a squad player, but if something decent was offered why not, hes a flanker as well.
Relton Roberts needs to be told that if he doesnt lose the necessary weight during next pre season he's out. It should be that simple.
Moore is expendable at almost 27 hes not going to show us more.
Westhoff has the opposite problem to Roberts, Westhoff needs to find 20kgs in a hurry, Astbury, Griffiths, Riewoldt all in front of him by a long way IMHO.
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Draft likely to prove tricky for picky clubs
EMMA QUAYLE
July 4, 2010
THE national under-18 championships have concluded with clubs still considering the approaching national draft a challenge.
Recruiters surveyed by The Sunday Age during the week expected many clubs to take a minimum number of picks in the compromised November draft, and for "needs" to influence first-round decisions more than they have in past years.
Having already removed 11 players from the draft pool - under the rule that allowed them to pre-sign a dozen 17-year-olds last year - the Gold Coast will make nine of the first 11 choices in the draft, pushing the existing clubs' first-round choices well down the order.
Essendon list manager Adrian Dodoro said while the championships had confirmed to him that each club would still have access to a talented player in the first round, clubs that were taking their first pick in the 20s - rather than at 10 or 11 - would naturally be making a more speculative choice.
"There's no doubt clubs will be a lot more specific in what they're looking for. I think, even with the early choices, clubs will be snapping players up as soon as possible, not taking the punt and thinking 'I could get this kid later on','' he said.
"Those days are gone. In previous years, you might look at a kid and think you could get him at 60 or 70, but this is not the year to do that.
''If a club wants a player, they'll be banking him with their first pick, because he won't be there at their second."
Collingwood recruiting manager Derek Hine agreed, expecting second-round draft choices to be far less valuable on the trade table than they have been, and predicting the newly introduced rule allowing clubs to count an upgraded rookie as one of their mandatory three draft selections would be utilised by some clubs.
"I distinctly get the feeling clubs will just be taking the three picks. I'm hearing some clubs are only taking two, which is a shame for the kids, but that's the sort of thing clubs will be considering. If you're not confident in the depth of the pool, are you willing to commit to a group of players for two years?" he said.
"Clubs will use different strategies, but I do think needs will play a bigger part. Say you need a tall player, and you're picking at around 18 or 19. In the past you might say, we'll take a midfielder first, because we're confident the tall we want will fall to our next pick.
"This year you'd definitely be taking the taller player, because your next pick won't be until the late 30s, and the likelihood of that player being there is not that great."
While the draft pool had been diminished by the removal of the Gold Coast 17-year-olds, Sydney recruiter Kinnear Beatson said a lack of quality in the second division sides at this year's championships had also affected the depth of the pool.
The most competitive second division side this year was NSW/ACT, and most of its players are reserved for Team GWS, too young for the draft or are already tied to AFL clubs under the NSW scholarship scheme.
Beatson said that while clubs would look to state league competitions for the players, the truth was that they already were, and had been for years. Before James Podsiadly and Michael Barlow came along many players - the list would extend well over 30 - had been drafted from senior leagues.
"There's Jason Porplyzia, Michael Jamison, Matthew Priddis and I could go on and on, there's a truckload of them," he said. "It's a fallacy. What's happening is that those competitions keep pushing that line, hoping more of their players will be taken, but the bottom line is that recruiters have been doing homework on them for years."
Full article at:
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/draft-likely-to-prove-tricky-for-picky-clubs-20100703-zv0w.html
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Here's a list of youtube links of video highlights of a few of the potential 2010 draftees for those interested.
I've posted the list on the draft board as well for easy future reference. More will be added later.
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=11599.0
Vic Metro
Andrew Gaff (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW4SNIJN5us")
Ben Jacobs (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwb8KEm0anU")
Matthew Watson (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX-ew8-9GAo")
Josh Caddy (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgS3FSF5N_g")
Viv Michie (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88OsFidOtDY")
Kieran Harper (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMMrj16d2BA")
Western Australia
Blayne Wilson (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuiy0KykSUg")
Harley Bennell (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Mi7Ja-SjAk")
Jack Darling (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jlBJ8a1gOQ")
Reece Conca (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrNbmGzfeJ0)
Vic Country
Jayden Pitt (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNRZX5hsQjY")
Lucas Cook (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Svd3Qc64k0w")
Billie Smedts (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6gSnp-uabU")
Jed Lamb (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogMO8bLIumk")
Luke Parker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dD0KuR1BMN4)
Shaun Atley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur32F0tf6X4)
South Australia
Scott Lycett (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYj8TD8tjAk")
Jamie Solly (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyqu7naZNWg")
Daniel Gorringe (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRQ49i34yss")
Patrick McCarthy (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2ryV-U15UU")
Jared Polec (http://"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMR3KNOL8kA")
Zak Fitzgerald (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQcPy6IZQng)
Brodie Smith (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5GvCEN_O5I)
Sam Day (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6ZJvJDin0w)
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GOLD Coast will pick exciting Western Australian teenager Harley Bennell with one of its first three selections in this year's draft.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/coast-locks-up-young-wa-star-harley-bennell/story-e6frf9jf-1225891586610
So that's Swallow and Bennell locked in.
1. GC - Swallow
2. GC - Bennell
3. GC -
4. WCE -
5. GC -
6. Rich -
Based on current ladder positions
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GOLD Coast will pick exciting Western Australian teenager Harley Bennell with one of its first three selections in this year's draft.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/coast-locks-up-young-wa-star-harley-bennell/story-e6frf9jf-1225891586610
So that's Swallow and Bennell locked in.
1. GC - Swallow
2. GC - Bennell
3. GC -
4. WCE -
5. GC -
6. Rich -
Based on current ladder positions
1. GC - Swallow
2. GC - Bennell
3. GC - Day
4. WCE - Darling
5. GC - Gaff
6. Rich - Atley
As the days go on the more I like Atley. He's my pick atm.
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1. GC - Bennell
2. GC - Day
3. GC - Swallow
4. WCE - Darling
5. GC - Conca
6. Rich - Gaff
:pray
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Would be happy with Atley.
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McMahon - Gone. (1)
Polo - Trade for 3rd, 4th Round Pick, Gone. (2)
Hislop - Gone, waste of time. (3)
King - when contract is up, Gone. (4)
Thomson - Gone, waste of time. (5)
Cousins - Gone, retire. (6)
White - Keep.
Dea - Keep, too early.
Hicks - Keep, too early, his height doesn't help his chances.
Gilligan - who? Gone. (6 + 1 Rookie)
Roberts - does he want to play AFL? probably not, Gone. (6 + 2)
Polak - Gone, delisted. (6 + 3)
Thursfield - Keep.
Jackson - will replace Tuck as that big-bodied player, Keep.
Tuck - when contract is up, Gone. (7 + 3)
Nahas - Keep.
Moore - Keep.
Rance - when contract is up Trade or Delist, Gone. (8 + 3)
Foley - Keep.
Simmonds - already Gone. (9 + 3)
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Looking more and more likely we will be getting pick 8-12 at this point. Will still get a player but no way we will get Gaff or Atley.
I believe we need another midfielder and would be thinking Hallanan or Smedts at this pick ??
If Gorringe falls to here, he might also be an option.
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Polec is also likely has no right foot that Ive seen. Has everything else tho.
Ge Id be wrapped with Atley
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McKenna is denying their 2nd pick will be used on Harley Bennell and possibly pick 3 on Sam Day
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/99174/default.aspx
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Be amazing if Sam Day outright refused GC. Read a little on him, the kid sounds like an absolute freak. Be interesting to see what happens with him, cause if he has serious options elsewhere he may be able to pick and choose the club he ends up at. Wishful thinking of course.
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Be amazing if Sam Day outright refused GC. Read a little on him, the kid sounds like an absolute freak. Be interesting to see what happens with him, cause if he has serious options elsewhere he may be able to pick and choose the club he ends up at. Wishful thinking of course.
I don't think he can outright refuse to be drafted by any club. If Day nominates he will just have to take his chances but perhaps his reluctance will sway them from choosing him. Given his supposed talent this is unlikely though. If we get pick four I would probably prefer Gaff anyway or Bennell if a minor miracle occurs :pray
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Be amazing if Sam Day outright refused GC. Read a little on him, the kid sounds like an absolute freak. Be interesting to see what happens with him, cause if he has serious options elsewhere he may be able to pick and choose the club he ends up at. Wishful thinking of course.
I don't think he can outright refuse to be drafted by any club. If Day nominates he will just have to take his chances but perhaps his reluctance will sway them from choosing him. Given his supposed talent this is unlikely though. If we get pick four I would probably prefer Gaff anyway or Bennell if a minor miracle occurs :pray
i think he actually can.
for example, if he would like to come play at a melbourne club for example, but he has back up options with his baseball and basketball, he can simply nominate for the draft, go to draft combine and tell GC suns: i will not play with you so don't draft me. In fear of wasting that pick, GC is unlikely to draft him. And if GC still drafts him, he can simply go "eff you, i'm not playing here, i will go to america and play baseball or basketball".
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McMahon - Gone. (1)
Polo - Trade for 3rd, 4th Round Pick, Gone. (2)
Hislop - Gone, waste of time. (3)
King - when contract is up, Gone. (4)
Thomson - Gone, waste of time. (5)
Cousins - Gone, retire. (6)
White - Keep.
Dea - Keep, too early.
Hicks - Keep, too early, his height doesn't help his chances.
Gilligan - who? Gone. (6 + 1 Rookie)
Roberts - does he want to play AFL? probably not, Gone. (6 + 2)
Polak - Gone, delisted. (6 + 3)
Thursfield - Keep.
Jackson - will replace Tuck as that big-bodied player, Keep.
Tuck - when contract is up, Gone. (7 + 3)
Nahas - Keep.
Moore - Keep.
Rance - when contract is up Trade or Delist, Gone. (8 + 3)
Foley - Keep.
Simmonds - already Gone. (9 + 3)
Agree with all of this post. Except maybe Rance, needs some work but he goes in. I like him.
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Be amazing if Sam Day outright refused GC. Read a little on him, the kid sounds like an absolute freak. Be interesting to see what happens with him, cause if he has serious options elsewhere he may be able to pick and choose the club he ends up at. Wishful thinking of course.
I don't think he can outright refuse to be drafted by any club. If Day nominates he will just have to take his chances but perhaps his reluctance will sway them from choosing him. Given his supposed talent this is unlikely though. If we get pick four I would probably prefer Gaff anyway or Bennell if a minor miracle occurs :pray
i think he actually can.
for example, if he would like to come play at a melbourne club for example, but he has back up options with his baseball and basketball, he can simply nominate for the draft, go to draft combine and tell GC suns: i will not play with you so don't draft me. In fear of wasting that pick, GC is unlikely to draft him. And if GC still drafts him, he can simply go "eff you, i'm not playing here, i will go to america and play baseball or basketball".
I like the Peggles scenario :gotigers
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Be amazing if Sam Day outright refused GC. Read a little on him, the kid sounds like an absolute freak. Be interesting to see what happens with him, cause if he has serious options elsewhere he may be able to pick and choose the club he ends up at. Wishful thinking of course.
I don't think he can outright refuse to be drafted by any club. If Day nominates he will just have to take his chances but perhaps his reluctance will sway them from choosing him. Given his supposed talent this is unlikely though. If we get pick four I would probably prefer Gaff anyway or Bennell if a minor miracle occurs :pray
i think he actually can.
for example, if he would like to come play at a melbourne club for example, but he has back up options with his baseball and basketball, he can simply nominate for the draft, go to draft combine and tell GC suns: i will not play with you so don't draft me. In fear of wasting that pick, GC is unlikely to draft him. And if GC still drafts him, he can simply go "eff you, i'm not playing here, i will go to america and play baseball or basketball".
I like the Peggles scenario :gotigers
Exactly the scenario im hoping for!! Puts him in a relatively strong position i reckon.
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I like that scenerio too :thumbsup Let's hope you're right and he ends up at Tigerland. :gotigers
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As Pick 4 looks unlikely now I've changed the thread title to a more general draft discussion.
Here's a mock draft with Gaff still going to us at pick 8.....
Round 1 Mock for 2010 Draft - 2nd of August 2010
1: Gold Coast – David Swallow
2: Gold Coast – Harley Bennell
3: Gold Coast – Sam Day
4: West Coast – Shaun Atley
5: Gold Coast – Jack Darling
6: Brisbane - Ben Jacobs
7: Gold Coast - Matthew Watson
8: Richmond - Andrew Gaff
9: Gold Coast - Luke Parker
10: Port Adelaide - Daniel Gorringe
11: Gold Coast - Josh Caddy
12: Essendon - Dyson Heppell
13: Gold Coast - Keiran Harper
14: Adelaide - Mitch Hallahan
15: Gold Coast - Jared Polec
16: Melbourne - Lucas Cook
17: North Melbourne - Josh Green
18: Sydney Swans - Jayden Pitt
19: Carlton - Jamie Solly
20: Hawthorn - Scott Lycett
21: Fremantle - Blayne Wilson
22: Bulldogs - Mitch Wallis F/S
23: St Kilda - Patrick McCarthy
24: Geelong - Warrick Andreoli
25: Collingwood - Tom Lynch
http://jozsdraftsite.webs.com/mockdrafts.htm
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Would be happy with any of those picks in the top 15 but reckon we will get Darling or Caddy with 8 as Gaffy will be gone. Would love Gorringe at 8 !!
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Gorringe, Vickery, Browne, Graham - would be a strong long term (u23) ruck divison
however, the list is still short of onballer wih our first pick; Gilligan, Polo, Hislop don't look good enough. Morton, Nahas, Hicks, Nason are more outside, running mids/forwards.
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
After you watched the final you posted:
"I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final. "
"Its all opinion. My opinion is that the game was very very average. I hope players from this game go on and become stars indeed. In good sides yes maybe 3 or 4 will be ok but not 1 player in that game would become a star playing for a bottom club like ours. The players mentioned by GB - I wouldnt be picking inside the first 40 odd picks. As for Temel, wouldnt be picking him inside the first 55 to 60 picks. Just my opinion thats all."
The players I mentioned back then, that you refer to above, were Melksham and Bastinac. You've stated that you wouldn't draft them in the top 40.
You've also stated that you "wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone one from either of these sides".
Therefore, how can you say that I have posted an untruth?
-
No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
After you watched the final you posted:
"I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final. "
"Its all opinion. My opinion is that the game was very very average. I hope players from this game go on and become stars indeed. In good sides yes maybe 3 or 4 will be ok but not 1 player in that game would become a star playing for a bottom club like ours. The players mentioned by GB - I wouldnt be picking inside the first 40 odd picks. As for Temel, wouldnt be picking him inside the first 55 to 60 picks. Just my opinion thats all."
The players I mentioned back then, that you refer to above, were Melksham and Bastinac. You've stated that you wouldn't draft them in the top 40.
You've also stated that you "wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone one from either of these sides".
Therefore, how can you say that I have posted an untruth?
Listen - show me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud. Just one.
Your a dishonest poster. All I see is that I said that Temel was overated - And guess what - He didnt get drafted.
You make dishonest posts left right and centre and pass them of as facts- Find me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud.
Edit: namecalling and abuse removed
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
After you watched the final you posted:
"I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final. "
"Its all opinion. My opinion is that the game was very very average. I hope players from this game go on and become stars indeed. In good sides yes maybe 3 or 4 will be ok but not 1 player in that game would become a star playing for a bottom club like ours. The players mentioned by GB - I wouldnt be picking inside the first 40 odd picks. As for Temel, wouldnt be picking him inside the first 55 to 60 picks. Just my opinion thats all."
The players I mentioned back then, that you refer to above, were Melksham and Bastinac. You've stated that you wouldn't draft them in the top 40.
You've also stated that you "wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone one from either of these sides".
Therefore, how can you say that I have posted an untruth?
Listen - show me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud. Just one.
Your a dishonest poster. All I see is that I said that Temel was overated - And guess what - He didnt get drafted.
You make dishonest posts left right and centre and pass them of as facts- Find me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud.
Take it easy Ramps, he's provided enough evidence to suggest you didn't rate them highly
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
After you watched the final you posted:
"I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final. "
"Its all opinion. My opinion is that the game was very very average. I hope players from this game go on and become stars indeed. In good sides yes maybe 3 or 4 will be ok but not 1 player in that game would become a star playing for a bottom club like ours. The players mentioned by GB - I wouldnt be picking inside the first 40 odd picks. As for Temel, wouldnt be picking him inside the first 55 to 60 picks. Just my opinion thats all."
The players I mentioned back then, that you refer to above, were Melksham and Bastinac. You've stated that you wouldn't draft them in the top 40.
You've also stated that you "wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone one from either of these sides".
Therefore, how can you say that I have posted an untruth?
Listen - show me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud. Just one.
Your a dishonest poster. All I see is that I said that Temel was overated - And guess what - He didnt get drafted.
You make dishonest posts left right and centre and pass them of as facts- Find me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud.
You said you wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides - isn't that the same thing as saying that none of them were worth drafting? It is hardly an untruth being told by me. This was in your first post. The 2nd quote I've provided was after I'd taken you to task about Melksham and Bastinac, and then you qualified your earlier statement by saying you wouldn't take them in the first 40.
As for your abuse, I think you're enraged because I've established, by your own posting, that you did say something very similar to what I asserted.
edit: quote edited
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Players with protential are watched long before the championships FACT. They are watched all year round by clubs scouts from all clubs. Clubs have many sources who supply footage & reports back to them all year round & some contineous for several years.
Anyone thinking a footballer is picked off the championships is deluded & knows nothing.
Championship games are a serious hitout to have the players compete against each other & dont affect the draft what so ever.
Clubs let the players they are interested in know the year before thier draft or very early in the year & follow many processes.
There is alot involved when picking a draft & they dont all play championship or TAC ;D
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Players with protential are watched long before the championships FACT. They are watched all year round by clubs scouts from all clubs. Clubs have many sources who supply footage & reports back to them all year round & some contineous for several years.
Anyone thinking a footballer is picked off the championships is deluded & knows nothing.
Championship games are a serious hitout to have the players compete against each other & dont affect the draft what so ever.
Clubs let the players they are interested in know the year before thier draft or very early in the year & follow many processes.
There is alot involved when picking a draft & they dont all play championship or TAC ;D
Steele Sidebottom says hi.
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We just simply must get Atley, trade something and pick 8 to West Coast for Pick 4.
Atley is seriously one of the best young players I've ever seen. The amount of ability that has gone under the radar is ridiculous. The kid should be going number 1 IMO, he has enormous talent.
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Players with protential are watched long before the championships FACT. They are watched all year round by clubs scouts from all clubs. Clubs have many sources who supply footage & reports back to them all year round & some contineous for several years.
Anyone thinking a footballer is picked off the championships is deluded & knows nothing.
Championship games are a serious hitout to have the players compete against each other & dont affect the draft what so ever.
Clubs let the players they are interested in know the year before thier draft or very early in the year & follow many processes.
There is alot involved when picking a draft & they dont all play championship or TAC ;D
You know nothing about this system, stop commenting on it.
You know very little of the TAC and drafting systems. 2 years ago this statement would be 100% false, very little scouting is don before U18 level. 75% of players start to show potential between 16 and 18 years old. Bottom age U18 level is first year 17 year old players. You've guessed this completely off the experience you claim to have through your son.
Kurt Tippets first ever competitive Aussie Rules game was in a year 12 match for his school; he played in his Dunlop volleys. He was then drafted to Adelaide 12 months later.
By all reports we saw less than 5% of JON's Under 18 competitive football and drafted him on good mail.
Stop making outlandish statements you have no knowledge about.
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
After you watched the final you posted:
"I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final. "
"Its all opinion. My opinion is that the game was very very average. I hope players from this game go on and become stars indeed. In good sides yes maybe 3 or 4 will be ok but not 1 player in that game would become a star playing for a bottom club like ours. The players mentioned by GB - I wouldnt be picking inside the first 40 odd picks. As for Temel, wouldnt be picking him inside the first 55 to 60 picks. Just my opinion thats all."
The players I mentioned back then, that you refer to above, were Melksham and Bastinac. You've stated that you wouldn't draft them in the top 40.
You've also stated that you "wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone one from either of these sides".
Therefore, how can you say that I have posted an untruth?
Listen - show me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud. Just one.
Your a dishonest poster. All I see is that I said that Temel was overated - And guess what - He didnt get drafted.
You make dishonest posts left right and centre and pass them of as facts- Find me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud
You said you wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides - isn't that the same thing as saying that none of them were worth drafting? It is hardly an untruth being told by me. This was in your first post. The 2nd quote I've provided was after I'd taken you to task about Melksham and Bastinac, and then you qualified your earlier statement by saying you wouldn't take them in the first 40.
As for your abuse, I think you're enraged because I've established, by your own posting, that you did say something very similar to what I asserted.
I might just add this - you've been caught out. You said I was telling an untruth, and I caught you out by backing up my statement with your own words. You didn't expect that, so instead of being adult enough to say "I made a mistake" you've gone troppo and called me dishonest, a moron, a clown, a delinquent, a scumbag, a dropkick ....all failed attempts to throw up a smokescreen. Apart from being ridiculously over the top, it was very immature.
By the way, out of all your endearments, "delinquent" was my favourite. I really enjoyed that.
Edit: quote edited
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No Brodie Smith in that Line Up - Smith will be a very very good player IMHO from what I saw.
yeah, but you're the guy who said Melksham and Bastinac weren't worth drafting (after you watched the TAC Cup final last year), so your opinion on the quality of young players is questionable.
rubbish. why do you post untruths?
I liked Melksham and I didnt rate Bastinac
After you watched the final you posted:
"I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final. "
"Its all opinion. My opinion is that the game was very very average. I hope players from this game go on and become stars indeed. In good sides yes maybe 3 or 4 will be ok but not 1 player in that game would become a star playing for a bottom club like ours. The players mentioned by GB - I wouldnt be picking inside the first 40 odd picks. As for Temel, wouldnt be picking him inside the first 55 to 60 picks. Just my opinion thats all."
The players I mentioned back then, that you refer to above, were Melksham and Bastinac. You've stated that you wouldn't draft them in the top 40.
You've also stated that you "wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone one from either of these sides".
Therefore, how can you say that I have posted an untruth?
Listen - show me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud. Just one.
Your a dishonest poster. All I see is that I said that Temel was overated - And guess what - He didnt get drafted.
P You make dishonest posts left right and centre and pass them of as facts- Find me one post where I said that Melksham was a dud .
You said you wouldn't be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides - isn't that the same thing as saying that none of them were worth drafting? It is hardly an untruth being told by me. This was in your first post. The 2nd quote I've provided was after I'd taken you to task about Melksham and Bastinac, and then you qualified your earlier statement by saying you wouldn't take them in the first 40.
As for your abuse, I think you're enraged because I've established, by your own posting, that you did say something very similar to what I asserted.
You havent produced one post where I said that Melksham was no good. You havent even produced a proper quote of mine - properly quoted. All you done is tell us I said something in your own quotes. Youve established that you make stuff up. Go find one post of mine. You havent found 1 direct quote of mine that you can put up. NOT ONE- Instead youve just claimed that I said something, I can claim the same way you did that you said that Martin was dud, it would be rubbish but at least Im not making stuff up as I go- which Is something your very good at.
As I said - GO FIND ONE POST WHERE I DIRECTLY NAMED AND SAID MELKSHAM WAS NO GOOD!
Edit: namecalling removed
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You know nothing about this system, stop commenting on it.
You know very little of the TAC and drafting systems. 2 years ago this statement would be 100% false, very little scouting is don before U18 level. 75% of players start to show potential between 16 and 18 years old. Bottom age U18 level is first year 17 year old players. You've guessed this completely off the experience you claim to have through your son. BIGGEST LOAD OF poo I READ ON THIS FORUM.
Kurt Tippets first ever competitive Aussie Rules game was in a year 12 match for his school; he played in his Dunlop volleys. He was then drafted to Adelaide 12 months later.
By all reports we saw less than 5% of JON's Under 18 competitive football and drafted him on good mail.
Stop making outlandish statements you have no knowledge about.
there are so many people laughing at you stupid
l told you meet me at a game, l will prove once and for all how stupid your comments are ;D
l will even arrange to have Travis Cloke come along to make you feel at home
to top your statement off you contridicted yourself because you failed to read what l wrote properly
your a nobody who made a fool of yourself on another forum & came here & doing the same.
Your a forum troll who watches TV TAC cup show & your knowledge is that of Terry Wallace ;D go away you effing nobody
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Form in the championships can certainly affect the way a player is rated and where they are drafted, but it's not everything.
A few players have dropped down the order due to poor championships (Franklin), just as some players have risen up the order (Sidebottom)
That being said, Cotchin had a pretty average championships and still went #2 so if the talent is there they'll still get taken
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Form in the championships can certainly affect the way a player is rated and where they are drafted, but it's not everything.
A few players have dropped down the order due to poor championships (Franklin), just as some players have risen up the order (Sidebottom)
That being said, Cotchin had a pretty average championships and still went #2 so if the talent is there they'll still get taken
The media speculate the draft order but thats all it is speculation ;D
How can players go up & down in the draft ;D explain that
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You havent produced one post where I said that Melksham was no good. You havent even produced a proper quote of mine - properly quoted. All you done is tell us I said something in your own quotes. Youve established that you make stuff up. Go find one post of mine. You havent found 1 direct quote of mine that you can put up. NOT ONE- Instead youve just claimed that I said something, I can claim the same way you did that you said that Martin was dud, it would be rubbish but at least Im not making stuff up as I go- which Is something your very good at.
As I said - GO FIND ONE POST WHERE I DIRECTLY NAMED AND SAID MELKSHAM WAS NO GOOD!
I don't have to find a post that said Melksham was no good.All I have to do is find a post that supports my original assertion that you didn't think Melksham and Bastinac were worth drafting. I did that. I quoted what you said. I couldn't give a direct quote in this thread because it was posted in a different thread. However, here is the link to it:
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=10142.0
I have found the "one" direct quote. I have put it up. Now you apologise.
I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final.
You say I make stuff up. Now prove that, or you owe me an apology. You've called me all manner of names. I have provided the quote,and I have supported my assertion with proof. However, I don't think you are man enough to apologise.
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=10142.15 This link shows the quoted box
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not really - most of the time in the last 6/7 years there is a clear idea before the draft who the outstanding players are..
ie. November 1st, 2004 Round 1
1.Richmond - Brett Deledio (Mur)
2.Hawthorn - Ryan Griffen (SA)
3.Western Bulldogs - Richard Tambling (NT)
4.Richmond - Lance Franklin (WA)
5.Hawthorn - Jarryd Roughead (Gip)
http://www.footydraft.com/category/2004/2004-footydraftcom-mock-draft/
players go up and down because
a) the players does good thing leading up the draft ie
b) a club makes a strange pick; ie. JON
Form in the championships can certainly affect the way a player is rated and where they are drafted, but it's not everything.
A few players have dropped down the order due to poor championships (Franklin), just as some players have risen up the order (Sidebottom)
That being said, Cotchin had a pretty average championships and still went #2 so if the talent is there they'll still get taken
The media speculate the draft order but thats all it is speculation ;D
How can players go up & down in the draft ;D explain that
-
You havent produced one post where I said that Melksham was no good. You havent even produced a proper quote of mine - properly quoted. All you done is tell us I said something in your own quotes. Youve established that you make stuff up. Go find one post of mine. You havent found 1 direct quote of mine that you can put up. NOT ONE- Instead youve just claimed that I said something, I can claim the same way you did that you said that Martin was dud, it would be rubbish but at least Im not making stuff up as I go- which Is something your very good at.
As I said - GO FIND ONE POST WHERE I DIRECTLY NAMED AND SAID MELKSHAM WAS NO GOOD!
I don't have to find a post that said Melksham was no good.All I have to do is find a post that supports my original assertion that you didn't think Melksham and Bastinac were worth drafting. I did that. I quoted what you said. I couldn't give a direct quote in this thread because it was posted in a different thread. However, here is the link to it:
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=10142.0
I have found the "one" direct quote. I have put it up. Now you apologise.
I tuned out very early on. I think they were all a pretty average bunch. Temel is overated. I wouldnt be in a rush to draft anyone from either of these two sides and thats pretty bad considering they were playing of for the grand final.
You say I make stuff up. Now prove that, or you owe me an apology. You've called me all manner of names. I have provided the quote,and I have supported my assertion with proof. However, I don't think you are man enough to apologise.
http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum//index.php?topic=10142.15 This link shows the quoted box
This thread is enough proof. You cant find 1 post where I said that Melksham was a dud. NOT ONE! And the best part is you use a QUOTE that I said "I tuned out very early on"
LOL
FIND ME A QUOTE WHERE I SAID THAT MELKSHAM WAS A DUD, FIND ME A POST WHERE I SAID HE WAS OVERATED- JUST ONE! Just like I said it with Temel. BUT YOU CANT FIND IT BECAUSE I NEVER SAID IT! AND THAT GORDY BOY IS THE END OF THE DEBATE- WHY? BECAUSE YOUVE HAD ALL AFTERNOON TO FIND JUST ONE POST- AND YOUVE GOT JACKSHIZEN. ALL YOU GOT IS A QUOTE OF YOURS WHERE YOUR SUPPOSEDLY QUOTING ME LOL. AND A QUOTE WHERE I SAID I TUNED OUT EARLY AND THAT TEMEL WAS OVERATED BY POSTERS PMSL.
Edit: turn down the volume (caps) Ramps
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not really - most of the time in the last 6/7 years there is a clear idea before the draft who the outstanding players are..
ie. November 1st, 2004 Round 1
1.Richmond - Brett Deledio (Mur)
2.Hawthorn - Ryan Griffen (SA)
3.Western Bulldogs - Richard Tambling (NT)
4.Richmond - Lance Franklin (WA)
5.Hawthorn - Jarryd Roughead (Gip)
http://www.footydraft.com/category/2004/2004-footydraftcom-mock-draft/
players go up and down because
a) the players does good thing leading up the draft ie
b) a club makes a strange pick; ie. JON
Form in the championships can certainly affect the way a player is rated and where they are drafted, but it's not everything.
A few players have dropped down the order due to poor championships (Franklin), just as some players have risen up the order (Sidebottom)
That being said, Cotchin had a pretty average championships and still went #2 so if the talent is there they'll still get taken
The media speculate the draft order but thats all it is speculation ;D
How can players go up & down in the draft ;D explain that
You used a thread that is a MOCK DRAFT :rollin
you wanna another go to explain it ;D
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You know nothing about this system, stop commenting on it.
You know very little of the TAC and drafting systems. 2 years ago this statement would be 100% false, very little scouting is don before U18 level. 75% of players start to show potential between 16 and 18 years old. Bottom age U18 level is first year 17 year old players. You've guessed this completely off the experience you claim to have through your son. BIGGEST LOAD OF poo I READ ON THIS FORUM.
Kurt Tippets first ever competitive Aussie Rules game was in a year 12 match for his school; he played in his Dunlop volleys. He was then drafted to Adelaide 12 months later.
By all reports we saw less than 5% of JON's Under 18 competitive football and drafted him on good mail.
Stop making outlandish statements you have no knowledge about.
there are so many people laughing at you stupid
l told you meet me at a game, l will prove once and for all how stupid your comments are ;D
l will even arrange to have Travis Cloke come along to make you feel at home
to top your statement off you contridicted yourself because you failed to read what l wrote properly
your a nobody who made a fool of yourself on another forum & came here & doing the same.
Your a forum troll who watches TV TAC cup show & your knowledge is that of Terry Wallace ;D go away you effing nobody
You've failed that's not even a response.. try again old man..
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You do alot of dodging Popelord, wont be long now
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You do alot of dodging Popelord, wont be long now
What does that even mean? Lol... Are you at "that" age now?
Anyway I think you've been clearly proven wrong, time and time again, who your almighty pick this year, another John Butcher instead of Martin?
Any thought of responding to the fact Adelaide recruited Tippett in the 3rd round a guy who they hadn't seen play until the U/18 carnivals, squashing your claim that clubs don't draft off the back of the Championships?
Have you got anything right on this forum yet?
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You do alot of dodging Popelord, wont be long now
What does that even mean? Lol... Are you at "that" age now?
Anyway I think you've been clearly proven wrong, time and time again, who your almighty pick this year, another John Butcher instead of Martin?
Any thought of responding to the fact Adelaide recruited Tippett in the 3rd round a guy who they hadn't seen play until the U/18 carnivals, squashing your claim that clubs don't draft off the back of the Championships?
Have you got anything right on this forum yet?
your on drugs or something, a clown like you has never proven me wrong.
Comparing Butcher & Martin who are 2 totaly different players & throwing it me as saying l'm wrong proves your a stuffing idiot.
Butcher has not even played yet & may never play. He could be a champion forward & if he is so be it but his not at Richmond where l thought he be good for us. You only starting talking about Martin after the media named him but you wanna take the credit.
What are you Richmonds talent scout today haha.
Butcher a tall & Martin & midfielder.
And you playing with TAC Eastern Ranges is the best lair on the forum :shh no more from you idiot
As l said meet me any day, l prove to you how long l been involved with TAC. can even show you photos of last weekend being with players who will be drafted in the coming draft. Stop being a big nothing liar boy cause thats all you are.
You are the OER forum liar who was hunted off another forum because you were found out :rollin You never put up any info that was your own lol
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Again ENOUGH with the insults and slanging matches! >:(
This thread is to discuss the 2010 draft.
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anyone got any idea how we can come up with another early pick. whats McGuane worth to the Gold Coast?
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You do alot of dodging Popelord, wont be long now
What does that even mean? Lol... Are you at "that" age now?
Anyway I think you've been clearly proven wrong, time and time again, who your almighty pick this year, another John Butcher instead of Martin?
Any thought of responding to the fact Adelaide recruited Tippett in the 3rd round a guy who they hadn't seen play until the U/18 carnivals, squashing your claim that clubs don't draft off the back of the Championships?
Have you got anything right on this forum yet?
your on drugs or something, a clown like you has never proven me wrong.
Comparing Butcher & Martin who are 2 totaly different players & throwing it me as saying l'm wrong proves your a effing idiot.
Butcher has not even played yet & may never play. He could be a champion forward & if he is so be it but his not at Richmond where l thought he be good for us. You only starting talking about Martin after the media named him but you wanna take the credit.
What are you Richmonds talent scout today haha.
Butcher a tall & Martin & midfielder.
And you playing with TAC Eastern Ranges is the best lair on the forum :shh no more from you idiot
As l said meet me any day, l prove to you how long l been involved with TAC. can even show you photos of last weekend being with players who will be drafted in the coming draft. Stop being a big nothing liar boy cause thats all you are.
You are the OER forum liar who was hunted off another forum because you were found out :rollin You never put up any info that was your own lol
You live in a fantasy world lol.
Of course they are different type of players, but they both the same when your talking football currency. Martin is better value than Butcher is and ever will be. To suggest we should have drafted Butcher instead is embarrassing, but entertaining so please continue to diminish your credibility, if there is any left.
As far as being a liar, resorting to that sort of comment is pretty sad.
You STILL haven't came back with a comment about being proven wrong about your comments saying "Players are not being drafted off Championship form" well Kurt Tippett was cause his first Aussie Rules game was at 17 years old. So you have been proven wrong
You STILL can't justify your comments saying we shoudl ahve drafted John Butcher. Currently the most incorrect comment on this forum. So again you've been proven wrong.
You STILL haven't answered the intial question as who is your pick for the draft if we have pick 4? Mine is Sean Atley I'm happy to put that out there.
This is your chance to get something right TM, don't waste it.
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You do alot of dodging Popelord, wont be long now
What does that even mean? Lol... Are you at "that" age now?
Anyway I think you've been clearly proven wrong, time and time again, who your almighty pick this year, another John Butcher instead of Martin?
Any thought of responding to the fact Adelaide recruited Tippett in the 3rd round a guy who they hadn't seen play until the U/18 carnivals, squashing your claim that clubs don't draft off the back of the Championships?
Have you got anything right on this forum yet?
your on drugs or something, a clown like you has never proven me wrong.
Comparing Butcher & Martin who are 2 totaly different players & throwing it me as saying l'm wrong proves your a effing idiot.
Butcher has not even played yet & may never play. He could be a champion forward & if he is so be it but his not at Richmond where l thought he be good for us. You only starting talking about Martin after the media named him but you wanna take the credit.
What are you Richmonds talent scout today haha.
Butcher a tall & Martin & midfielder.
And you playing with TAC Eastern Ranges is the best lair on the forum :shh no more from you idiot
As l said meet me any day, l prove to you how long l been involved with TAC. can even show you photos of last weekend being with players who will be drafted in the coming draft. Stop being a big nothing liar boy cause thats all you are.
You are the OER forum liar who was hunted off another forum because you were found out :rollin You never put up any info that was your own lol
Hahaha I cant get over this quote.
I don't care how long you've been involved with the TAC, you're still wrong in 95% of the things you say, so that makes it worse.
You have nothing to come back at me with except to claim I'm a "liar" lol.
What on earth are you talking about another forum? As if I have time to talk on 2 forums? Oh wait, you clearly do lol? Why would you bother? Or are these forums from otehr clubs you support and buy memberships for... :banghead
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anyone got any idea how we can come up with another early pick. whats McGuane worth to the Gold Coast?
McGuane and Tambling to GC
for
Pick 7, Round 3 or 4 Pick to RFC
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no more from you idiot
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no more from you idiot
The defence rests, without insults you have nothing. I'll take this as your admission you were wrong.
Disappointed you don't know as much as you claim about the TAC system enough to even give a tip for a top 10 draft pick.
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no more from you idiot
The defence rests, without insults you have nothing. I'll take this as your admission you were wrong.
Disappointed you don't know as much as you claim about the TAC system enough to even give a tip for a top 10 draft pick.
l'm not wasting my time on you anymore.
You been found out your a forum troll, get a job like the Aussies
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anyone got any idea how we can come up with another early pick. whats McGuane worth to the Gold Coast?
Depends what is available to the Gold Coast.
If there is a key defender drought, it might increase his value.
If they get Bock, then he mightn't be worth as much.
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no more from you idiot
The defence rests, without insults you have nothing. I'll take this as your admission you were wrong.
Disappointed you don't know as much as you claim about the TAC system enough to even give a tip for a top 10 draft pick.
l'm not wasting my time on you anymore.
You been found out your a forum troll, get a job like the Aussies
I forgot you're in a good mood this week your football team won on the weekend, Go the Pies TM.
"Get a job like the Aussies"
You consistently make absolutely no sense at all.
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I guess the deeper the Lions head into the doldrums, the more desperate they will become to top up with recycled players like McGuane. He'd look like a star in their current lineup.
As we have seen in the past, when they aren't going so well, their fans disappear quicker than American tourists going for a scuba dive. If they declared a rebuild like we did, they would have 3-4 years of empty seats and corporate boxes. That's why they bought Fev. I reckon they'll be in the front of the line at the end of year flea market and we should be showing them our car boot full of wares! ;D
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I guess the deeper the Lions head into the doldrums, the more desperate they will become to top up with recycled players like McGuane. He'd look like a star in their current lineup.
As we have seen in the past, when they aren't going so well, their fans disappear quicker than American tourists going for a scuba dive. If they declared a rebuild like we did, they would have 3-4 years of empty seats and corporate boxes. That's why they bought Fev. I reckon they'll be in the front of the line at the end of year flea market and we should be showing them our car boot full of wares! ;D
please dont make us sound like we are gypsies showing of the goods in the back of the datsun - thats Norfs job ;D
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Jon Ralph on Saturday night said the Eagles were willing to trade their pick 4 for an experienced player given they've drafted a lot of kids in recent drafts. They're after a quick small forward though.
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Jon Ralph on Saturday night said the Eagles were willing to trade their pick 4 for an experienced player given they've drafted a lot of kids in recent drafts. They're after a quick small forward though.
You've just described Richard Tambling mt. :lol
:pray
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Jon Ralph on Saturday night said the Eagles were willing to trade their pick 4 for an experienced player given they've drafted a lot of kids in recent drafts. They're after a quick small forward though.
Nahas ?
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Wells
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We have to do everything we can to get Harley Bennell!!!
Harley Bennell (Peel Thunder, WA)
Height: 184cm, Weight: 70kg, DOB: 02/10/92
Talented ball-winner in the forward-line or midfield; has speed, poise and great goal sense. Won the Larke Medal and All-Australian honours in the 2010 NAB AFL Under-18 Championships, where he averaged 13 goals :o in five matches and 19.6 disposals with six inside 50s.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/100040/default.aspx
It might be a typo. :rollin
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GC Bound I'm afraid, not confirmed but they will be taking him
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yeah hes a certain top 4 player, more than likely will go top 3, absolute jet
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Yep I can't see Bennell nor Day slipping past GC's first 3 picks either. Clubs with first picks always deny they know who they want as Melbourne did last year with Scully and Trengove yet they select them. Caddy, Gaff and Atley seem more realistic possibilities if we remain 15th and end up with going for a midfielder at pick 6.
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I can't find it anywhere in print but on SEN they played Hardwick saying yesterday when talking about Cousins' future that it'll depend on a list management decision and whether we end up using 3 draft picks or 8 draft picks. He also mentioned IIRC this upcoming draft as being not a strong one. Ignoring the Cuz issue for a sec you'd hope we'll end up using more than just 3 picks given we're still in rebuild mode :pray.
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can tell ya right now there be a few shocks. there be more than 3 picks
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can tell ya right now there be a few shocks. there be more than 3 picks
SHOCK AWAY Monky
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can tell ya right now there be a few shocks. there be more than 3 picks
McMahon to stay on for another 3 years?
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post the Draft pick or any predictions here.
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post the Draft pick or any predictions here.
Do you mean just Richmond torch or any and every club? Swallow, Bennell and Day are apparently locked in top 3. Gaff would be 4 off to the Eagles.
Pick 6 could be one of Gaff, Heppell (if either is still around), Polec, Caddy, Atley, etc... Some are mentioning ruckman Gorringe or key forward Lynch. I would've thought unless Sam Day suddenly drops out of the top 3 unexpectedly out of fear from the interstate clubs above us that he'll run off to baseball then the best pick available at 6 would be one of the mids.
As for our later picks it's too early to guess until we know what picks we exactly have. Currently they are 29, 46, 50, 63 and 80 but that will all change once clubs decide if they will use their compo pick (we and GC aren't) and how many spots they have free on their list. Adelaide is supposedly only using two picks and Essendon 3 picks. Given we'll have 5 picks in the ND, picks 63 and 80 will become slightly lower picks - 6, 29, 46, 50, 60, 70 for example. Our last pick will be used on Gourdis' promotion off the rookie list.
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post the Draft pick or any predictions here.
Do you mean just Richmond torch or any and every club? [/b]Swallow, Bennell and Day are apparently locked in top 3. Gaff would be 4 off to the Eagles.
Pick 6 could be one of Gaff, Heppell (if either is still around), Polec, Caddy, Atley, etc... Some are mentioning ruckman Gorringe or key forward Lynch. I would've thought unless Sam Day suddenly drops out of the top 3 unexpectedly out of fear from the interstate clubs above us that he'll run off to baseball then the best pick available at 6 would be one of the mids.
As for our later picks it's too early to guess until we know what picks we exactly have. Currently they are 29, 46, 50, 63 and 80 but that will all change once clubs decide if they will use their compo pick (we and GC aren't) and how many spots they have free on their list. Adelaide is supposedly only using two picks and Essendon 3 picks. Given we'll have 5 picks in the ND, picks 63 and 80 will become slightly lower picks - 6, 29, 46, 50, 60, 70 for example. Our last pick will be used on Gourdis' promotion off the rookie list.
The whole NAB Draft picks and "mock drafts". Our predictions and thinking. Anything really, but hopefully use this thread as the main thread for the draft come "D-Day 18th Nov" ...
:gotigers
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Unless we select another JON at pick 6 then we should gain another top talented kid. The key for us in this draft as always is how we go with our 2nd and 3rd round picks - 29, 46, 50. Although it's a pretty decent draft up to pick 30 at least from what I've seen and heard, the 2nd round plus picks with show whose recruiting dept. has done their homework.
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Just a heads up for those interested. The special draft edition of Inside Football is out from today in newsagents.
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Two posters on BF - 'Snoop Dog' (Pies fan) and 'foj1' (bombers fan) - each year each do a very detailed mock draft which is a good read. Here's what each has for Richmond's picks....
Snoop Dog's mock draft....
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771940
Selection # 6 (RICHMOND)
Andrew Gaff – Oakleigh / 183cm / 78kg
Profile : Wonderful player who played champs the last 2 years and performed exceptionally well as he did at the DC where his results were amongst the best in many categories. Racks up the possessions and tend to use it very well (champs efficiency was a whopping 79%) particularly off HB where he likes to set the play up. Also very adept at centre clearances and reminds of Power & Dal Santo in how he can hurt without a heap of touches. Super in traffic, great first step and happy knack of finding himself in space which allows him to use his left foot with good precision. Also good at the little things – chases / tackles etc so cant fault him on that and has obvious leadership qualities as well. If there is a knock on Gaff it is that there is a view he doesn’t hurt offensively. In saying that he shown in a number of games he is capable so maybe it’s just the role he plays and what he is asked to do.
Why Richmond: Yes he is very smilar to Cotchin but who cares. Super talent and will ensure a quality midfield for Richmond in 2-3 years time. Between Martin, Cotchin and Gaff Richmond’s ability to win ball from stoppages is going to be awesome. They only issue is that maybe an outside mid would be better or a ruckmen to ensure they get fed the ball as much as they deserve.
Similar to: Luke Power / Nick Dal Santo
Roughie: Highly likely Polec is here so he may be the one. Daniel Gorringe or Tom Lynch
Draft Range: 4 – 10
Selection # 29 (RICHMOND)
Jamie Cripps – East Frem /182cm / 78kg
Profile : Quality Colts player for some time now and on the radar I suspect of many clubs. Have seen the kid a number of times and I think he might surprise a few because he is very much what you want your HBF’er to be in the modern game. You want someone with good core strength that can hold their feet, someone who can take a contested mark and have good balanced and acceleration in getting away from the contest. Most importantly in the game ‘of zones’ you want a HB’er who can execute.......Jamie Cripps does all these things. I wouldn’t say he is a huge possession getter and am not sure he goes this high but he is smart footballer who seems to have terrific determination and would be very surprised if he wasn’t selected. Not exactly sure where he lands at AFL level but suspect maybe HBF with potential for midfield in years to come.
Why Richmond: If WCE pass then expect Richmond to hit him as this guy fills a big need for mine. Cripps gives them run and drive off HB which I think they need unless they are going to send Jackson back there.
Similar to: Lindsay Gilbee
Draft Range: 20-40
Roughie: Luke Mitchell if available or possibly a ruckmen ....if Hickey was available should jump on him but otherwise maybe Phillips or Cope?
Selection # 46 (RICHMOND)
Sam Crocker – Oakleigh /180cm / 73kg
Profile : Sam is a Carey boy so been in and out of Oakleigh side but has put in some performances that suggest he is a very exciting prospect. He was a member of the initial Metro squad but didn’t make the final cut which wasn’t surprising as he was coming from a long way back in that he only played 1 TAC match last year. Notwithstanding, he ticks a lot of boxes and has just kept on improving and with a DC invite suggests many agree there is also plenty of potential still left in him. DC will be important but I am pretty sure he will test well. Was listed in the DC as a small fwd although has played mostly in the middle so I think he is just as likely to end up as a HBF or Wing. Blessed with good pace and a great first step he will use his motor and ability to collect handball receives and then set up play with his beautifully weighted and penetrating left foot. Also has the ability to go back and take a contested mark. Don’t get me wrong he could go forward as well as he can take a grab and has reasonably clean hands along with a defensive element where he is prepared to pressure the carrier. Personally I would like to see him developed for a role around the middle where his run, decision making in traffic and foot skills allow him to set up play really well.
Why Richmond: I just think Sam is a nice fit. Lots of class and very smooth to compliment the Foley, Martin, Cotchin, Gaff midfield. If they could release him out wide then he could damage sides. Notwithstanding he is a late pick I have had him as high as #25 its just that some of his performances are a bit up and down. Potential is there in spades so hopefully the Tigers harness because if they do he could be a gem at pick 46.
Similar to: Heath Black
Draft Range: 30-60
Roughie: Anton Hamp....still thinking about a ruckmen
Selection # 50 (RICHMOND)
Ariel Steinberg – Bendigo / 191cm / 84kg
Profile : Been a bit over-hyped for me but this kid is a beauty and notwithstanding he is the awkward height for a key fwd his mobility is terrific and he could easily play as a tall third fwd. Mainly played out of the square for Pioneers and showed really good mobility, contested marking and kicking efficiency. Stocks rose significantly after DC where he was super impressive. I think I may have him a bit low here.
Similar to: Jarred Grant but not as explosive
Draft Range: 25-60
Why Richmond: Many will think he is a bargain at this selection but it is about right and its a developing tall that Richmond can work with to fit in with the long term plan of Roo Jnr & Griffiths
Roughie: Jamie Solly or Ben Brown
Selection # 63 (RICHMOND)
Blayne Wilson – Peel / 188cm / 86kg
Profile : Terrific player who many would think would be higher given his performances over the last few years now. Will play as a medium defender at AFL level and frankly I don’t have much doubt he will make it but probably just needs to improve some of athletic results. In saying that he is a natural footballer. Strong at the ball and holds his feet in contested situations. Tends to rack up good touches and then uses it really well. Has ok pace and is strong through the core so he is going to be difficult for opposition fwds and potentially be one that burns you the other way as he can kick pretty well either side.
Why Tiges: May be a bit similar to Rance but I think he would be a steal this late and very likely to play AFL footy.
Similar to: Nick Maxwell
Draft Range: 50 - rookie
Roughie: Jack Frost
Selection # 80 (RICHMOND)
Bachar Houli - Essendon
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=771940
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and foj1's mock draft ...
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773153
Pick 6 Richmond Tom Lynch Vic Country
A toss up here between Lynch and Polec and I suspect they may go tall with Lynch. Lynch had an outstanding season and has come from the clouds to be a top ten candidate. He has strong hands, a fantastic motor and is very good below his knees. The tigers have Reiwoldt as the forward 50 marking specialist, Griffith as a power forward and Lynch would be the hard working up the ground forward who will run opposition talls into the ground as well as out mark them one on one. Polec-is the other possibility here as he has outside flair which the Tigers would also covet.
Pick 29 Richmond Mitchell Hallahan Vic Country
A nice get for the tigers here, Hallahan is a tough inside midfielder who can also play as a small defender. Did not finish off the year well however his start was very impressive when he was injury free and he had a terrific National Championships. Hallahan does everything right on and off the field and would be the type who would quickly win the respect of coaches and supporters alike. A nice future foil for Cotchin, Delidio and Connors and would work well with Dustin Martin to win the tigers their share of contested footy.
Pick 46 Richmond Sam Crocker Oakleigh
Sam Crocker is one of the best kicks in the TAC as I reckon the Tigers are looking for elite disposers of the ball which Crocker certainly is. Crocker is also a formidable athlete who can run and carry the footy and is good overhead for his size. A criticism I have had of Crocker over the past couple of years is his capacity to take his turn and stick his head over the pill however he has improved in this area and though it is not his go to be inside he shows greater intensity to his game in 2010.
Pick 50 Richmond Zac Fitzgerald SA
19 year old who looks like he has got the ability to take his game to the next level. Fitzgerald is a nice size and shape who has played both forward and back. I think the tigers will look to develop him into a key back as Thursfield, Moore and co are not definitely the answer going forward for mine. Fitzgerald ironically reminds me of David Astbury who had a terrific debut year.
Pick 63 Richmond Jacob Gilbee Tasmania
Medium forward/ onballer who had a very solid National championships. A knock on him was his athleticism however reviewing his testing results has dispelled my fears there. Gilbee is smart in traffic and makes good decisions with the footy. Represents okay value at this stage of the draft.
Synopsis
This year’s draft from 30+ is just so even.
I think GC will really control the first round and ensure that they get the players they want but stop opposition clubs from getting the players they really want. This is a draft where I expect to see a lot of surprises and recruiters will have a little more license to be adventurous due to the compromised situation that is the 2010 National draft. A club that drafts well here (besides GC, WC and Brisbane) will have really completed due diligence and got their share of luck.
Some good prospects have been omitted however I call it as I see it and my knowledge of the interstaters is not as strong as previous years and I have very strong opinions about TAC players.
Keep in mind that another 15 odd players could be drafted after my draft has stopped.
The rookie draft will be so important this year.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=773153
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Your pick of the AFL national draft
* Jay Clark
* From: Herald Sun
* November 03, 2010 2:45PM
Below are Jay's tips for the top 25:
1. Gold Coast - David Swallow (18, midfielder, East Fremantle/Gold Coast)
Resembles: Simon Black (Brisbane Lions)
2. Gold Coast - Harley Bennell (18, midfielder/forward, Peel Thunder WA)
Resembles: Daniel Wells (North Melbourne)
3. Gold Coast - Sam Day (18, key forward/defender, Sturt SA)
Resembles: Kurt Tippett (Adelaide)
4. West Coast - Andrew Gaff (18, midfidler, Oakleigh Chargers)
Resembles: Luke Power (Brisbane Lions)
5. Brisbane Lions - Dyson Heppell (18, medium defender, Gippsland Power)
Resembles: Josh Drummond (Brisbane Lions)
6. Richmond - Jared Polec (18, medium midfielder, Woodville West Torrens SA)
Resembles: Ryan Griffen (Western Bulldogs)
7. Gold Coast - Tom Lynch (17, tall forward, Dandenong Stingrays)
Resembles: Matthew Richardson (Ex-Richmond)
8. Essendon - Shaun Atley (18, medium midfielder, Murray Bushrangers)
Resembles: Chris Judd (Carlton)
9. Gold Coast - Daniel Gorringe (18, ruckman, Norwood SA)
Resembles: Paddy Ryder (Essendon)
10. Gold Coast - Billie Smedts (18, medium defender, Geelong Falcons)
Resembles: Sam Gilbert (St Kilda) / Stephen Hill (Fremantle)
11. Gold Coast - Josh Caddy (18, medium midfielder, Northern Knights)
Resembles: Joel Selwood (Geelong)
12. Melbourne Ben Jacobs (18, medium defender, Sandringham Dragons)
Resembles: Luke Hodge (Hawthorn)
13. Gold Coast - Jayden Pitt (18, wingman, Geelong Falcons)
Resembles: Andrew Mackie (Geelong)
14. Adelaide - Brodie Smith (18, medium defender/midfielder, Woodville West Torrens SA)
Resembles: Corey Enright (Geelong)
15. Geelong Isaac Smith (21, half-forward/wing, North Ballarat)
Resembles: Stephen Hill (Fremantle)
16. Port Adelaide - Scott Lycett (18, ruckman, Port Adelaide Magpies SA)
Resembles: Matthew Kreuzer (Carlton)
17. North Melbourne - Kieran Harper (18, medium forward, Eastern Ranges)
Resembles: Alan Didak (Collingwood)
18. Carlton - Pat McCarthy (18, tall defender/forward, Glenelg SA)
Resembles: Nathan Bock (Gold Coast)
19. Hawthorn - Jed Lamb (18, small forward, Gippsland Power)
Resembles: Steve Johnson (Geelong)
20. Fremantle - Jack Darling (18, medium forward, West Perth WA)
Resembles: Matthew Pavlich (Fremantle)
21. Sydney - Reece Conca (18, midfielder, Perth WA)
Resembles: Tyson Edwards (Ex-Adelaide)
22. Western Bulldogs - Mitch Wallis (18, medium defender, Calder Cannons)
Resembles: David Mundy (Fremantle)
23. Geelong - Luke Parker (18, medium midfielder, Dandenong Stingrays)
Resembles: Jimmy Bartel (Geelong)
24. St Kilda - Dion Prestia (18, inside midfielder, Calder Cannons)
Resembles: David Rodan (Port Adelaide)
25. Brisbane Lions - Lucas Cook (18, tall forward, North Ballarat)
Resembles: Chris Grant (Ex-Western Bulldogs)
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/your-pick-of-the-afl-national-draft/story-e6frf9jf-1225947317074
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Didn't the Herald tell us yesterday that the Eagles are eyeing off Darling at 4??? Hmmm who is on the money with this one...
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Didn't the Herald tell us yesterday that the Eagles are eyeing off Darling at 4??? Hmmm who is on the money with this one...
I'd wait for emma quayles late mail, I find shes usually better informed than most
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Resembles: Ryan Griffen (Western Bulldogs)
8. Essendon - Shaun Atley (18, medium midfielder, Murray Bushrangers)
Resembles: Chris Judd (Carlton)
Judd like player or ryan griffen player ? do they think the Tigers are wacko ?
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Judging by the "Resembles", this is going to be the best draft of all time. Perhaps we should use our compensation pick after all ;)
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Here's the Herald-Sun's draft predictor where you can do your own mock draft from a top 50 of candidates....
http://heraldsunonline.com.au/afl/index.php
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According to the AFL Draft Machine, and AFL fans, here is the full list the possible draft selections (we'll only use up to pick 80 so the latter picks are more likely rookie selections).
David Swallow 1 Gold Coast East Fremantle (WA)
Harley Bennell 2 Gold Coast Peel Thunder (WA)
Sam Day 3 Gold Coast Sturt (SA)
Andrew Gaff 4 West Coast Eagles Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Dyson Heppell 5 Brisbane Lions Gippsland Power (VIC)
Jared Polec 6 Richmond Woodville W/ Torrens (SA)
Josh Caddy 7 Gold Coast Northern Knights (VIC)
Luke Parker 8 Essendon Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Daniel Gorringe 9 Gold Coast Norwood (SA)
Ben Jacobs 10 Gold Coast Sandringham Dragons (VIC)
Dion Prestia 11 Gold Coast Calder Cannons (VIC)
Jack Darling 12 Melbourne West Perth (WA)
Tom Lynch 13 Gold Coast Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Brodie Smith 14 Adelaide Woodville W/ Torrens (SA)
Mitch Hallahan 15 Geelong Cats Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Scott Lycett 16 Port Adelaide Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Kieran Harper 17 North Melbourne Eastern Ranges (VIC)
Matthew Watson 18 Carlton Calder Cannons (VIC)
Seb Tape 19 Hawthorn Glenelg (SA)
Reece Conca 20 Fremantle Perth (WA)
Ryan Lester 21 Sydney Swans Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Mitchell Wallis 22 Father son Western Bulldogs Calder Cannons (VIC)
Billie Smedts 23 Geelong Cats Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Brad Harvey 24 St Kilda Eastern Ranges (VIC)
Josh Green 25 Brisbane Lions Clarence (TAS)
Jamie Cripps 26 West Coast Eagles East Fremantle (WA)
Jed Lamb 27 Brisbane Lions Gippsland Power (VIC)
Shaun Atley 28 West Coast Eagles Murray Bushrangers (VIC)
Luke Mitchell 29 Richmond Calder Cannons (VIC)
Tom Hickey 30 Essendon Morningside (QLD)
Jayden Pitt 31 Brisbane Lions Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Lucas Cook 32 Melbourne North Ballarat (VIC)
Pat McCarthy 33 Carlton Glenelg (SA)
Leif Cope 34 Port Adelaide Eastern Ranges (VIC)
Tim Milera 35 Port Adelaide Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Josh Walker 36 Geelong Cats Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Shannon Rioli 37 Hawthorn St Marys (NT)
Cameron Guthrie 38 Gold Coast Calder Cannons (VIC)
Isaac Smith 39 Sydney Swans North Ballarat (VIC)
Thomas Liberatore 40 Father son Western Bulldogs Calder Cannons (VIC)
Andrew McInnes 41 Carlton Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Viv Michie 42 St Kilda Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Anton Hamp 43 Fremantle Claremont (WA)
Josh Mellington 44 Collingwood Murray Bushrangers (VIC)
Darcy Barden 45 Collingwood Northern Knights (VIC)
Daniel Farmer 46 Richmond Sandringham Dragons (VIC)
Myles Sewell 47 Essendon North Ballarat (VIC)
Tom McDonald 48 Gold Coast North Ballarat (VIC)
Callum Sinclair 49 Melbourne Port Melbourne (VIC)
Tom Gordon 50 Richmond Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Blayne Wilson 51 Port Adelaide Peel Thunder (WA)
Jake Batchelor 52 Melbourne Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Cameron Delaney 53 Geelong Cats Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Jacob Gillbee 54 Hawthorn Lauderdale (TAS)
Angus Litherland 55 Fremantle Claremont (WA)
Alex Johnson 56 Sydney Swans Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Tom Ledger 57 Gold Coast Claremont (WA)
Ariel Steinberg 58 Geelong Cats Bendigo Pioneers (VIC)
Thomas Schneider 59 St Kilda Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Aaron Elari 60 Collingwood Perth (WA)
Jonathon Beech 61 Adelaide West Adelaide (SA)
Alex Fasolo 62 West Coast Eagles East Fremantle (WA)
Luke Dahlhaus 63 Richmond Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Joe Groenewegen 64 Essendon Launceston (TAS)
Adam Marcon 65 Brisbane Lions Northern Knights (VIC)
Matthew Rankine 66 Hawthorn West Adelaide (SA)
Zac Fitzgerald 67 Carlton Woodville W/ Torrens (SA)
Jamie Solly 68 Port Adelaide Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Sam Crocker 69 North Melbourne Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Jordan Treloar 70 Carlton Northern Knights (VIC)
Jack Frost 71 North Melbourne Sandringham Dragons (VIC)
Matt Jones 72 Fremantle South Fremantle (WA)
Aaron Mullett 73 Sydney Swans Eastern Ranges (VIC)
Max Otten 74 Western Bulldogs Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Cameron O'Shea 75 Geelong Cats Eastern Ranges (VIC)
Ben Mabon 76 St Kilda North Ballarat (VIC)
Sam Cust 77 Collingwood Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Anthony Kyanga 78 Collingwood East Fremantle (WA)
Kaine Stevens 79 West Coast Eagles Swan Districts (WA)
Andrew Phillips 80 Richmond Lauderdale (TAS)
Alex McLeod 81 Essendon Calder Cannons (VIC)
Shaun Bewick 82 Brisbane Lions West Perth (WA)
Jarryd Lyons 83 Melbourne Sandringham Dragons (VIC)
Nathan Batley 84 Adelaide Woodville W/ Torrens (SA)
Jonathon Giles 85 Port Adelaide Sturt (SA)
Hayden Yarran 86 West Coast Eagles West Perth (WA)
Patrick Karnezis 87 Carlton Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Troy Davis 88 Hawthorn West Adelaide (SA)
Kieran Butcher 89 Fremantle Peel Thunder (WA)
Ben Reid 90 Western Bulldogs Bendigo Pioneers (VIC)
Brayden Salton 91 Western Bulldogs Gippsland Power (VIC)
Cameron Johnston 92 Geelong Cats Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Michael Hutchinson 93 St Kilda Aspley (QLD)
Ahmed Saad 94 Collingwood Northern Bullants (VIC)
Jamie Elliott 95 Collingwood Murray Bushrangers (VIC)
Isiah Stevens 96 West Coast Eagles Queanbeyan (ACT)
Alex Browne 97 Richmond Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Michael Hibberd 98 Essendon Frankston (VIC)
Michael Evans 99 Brisbane Lions Claremont (WA)
Jake Von Bertouch 100 Melbourne Woodville W/ Torrens (SA)
Gavin Roberts 101 Adelaide Norwood (SA)
Taylor Gilchrist 102 Port Adelaide Sydney Swans
Jackson Bolton 103 North Melbourne Oakleigh Chargers (VIC)
Ben Haren 104 Carlton Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
James Orr 105 Hawthorn Box Hill (VIC)
Mitch Carter 106 Fremantle South Fremantle (WA)
David Kruse 107 Sydney Swans Wanderers (NT)
Ryan Pendlebury 108 Western Bulldogs Gippsland Power (VIC)
Richard Bamblett 109 Geelong Cats North Ballarat (VIC)
Arryn Siposs 110 St Kilda Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Daniel Semmens 111 Collingwood Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Jimmi Savage 112 Gold Coast Norwood (SA)
Warrick Andreoli 113 West Coast Eagles South Fremantle (WA)
Dean MacDonald 114 Richmond Gippsland Power (VIC)
Jason Johannisen 115 Essendon East Fremantle (WA)
Daniel Nicholson 116 Brisbane Lions Uni Blues (VIC)
Daniel Kulikowski 117 Melbourne Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Terry Milera 118 Adelaide Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Ken Campbell 119 Port Adelaide South Adelaide (SA)
Corey Buchan 120 North Melbourne Dandenong Stingrays (VIC)
Larry Owen 121 Carlton Hobart (TAS)
Jordon Eades 122 Hawthorn Perth (WA)
Ryan Brabazon 123 Fremantle Sydney Swans
Karl Siebels 124 Sydney Swans Sturt (SA)
Michael Talia 125 Western Bulldogs Calder Cannons (VIC)
Jayden Schofield 126 Geelong Cats East Fremantle (WA)
Kane Murphy 127 St Kilda Riverview (NSW)
Ben Brown 128 Collingwood Devonport (TAS)
Harrison Cumming 129 Gold Coast Central Broken Hill (NSW)
Jacob Brennan 130 Father son West Coast Eagles East Fremantle (WA)
Tim Northe 131 Richmond Gippsland Power (VIC)
Glenn Dawson 132 Essendon Port Adelaide
Thomas Howlett 133 Brisbane Lions East Perth (WA)
Jeremy Taylor 134 Melbourne Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Archie Longbottom 135 Adelaide Glenelg (SA)
Justin Monaco 136 Port Adelaide East Fremantle (WA)
Alex Simpson 137 North Melbourne Werribee Tigers (VIC)
Jesse Fortune 138 Carlton Western Jets (VIC)
George Horlin-Smith 139 Hawthorn Sturt (SA)
Sam Menagola 140 Fremantle East Fremantle (WA)
Jack Mahony 141 Sydney Swans Wollongong (NSW)
Ben Casley 142 Western Bulldogs Western Jets (VIC)
Rowan Garlett 143 Geelong Cats Perth (WA)
Jackson Ferguson 144 St Kilda Pennant Hills (NSW)
Isaac Baker 145 Collingwood Geelong Falcons (VIC)
Link (http://www.allfooty.info/2010/11/david-swallow-afl-fantasy-news.html)
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They don't rate Atley!
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Another poster on BF "Quigley" also does a very detailed albeit left-field mock draft each and every year:
Full mock draft and player by player summary here:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=774682
Here's what he has for Richmond...
Pick 6
Jared Polec
DOB 12/10/92 Ht 188 Wt 77
The Tigers are apparently very keen on Heppell and if he is available I am sure they will take him. Lynch is also highly regarded down at the Tigers. Notwithstanding that I rate Polec more highly than either of those two and so I am going to take Polec instead. The predominantly outside Polec will complement the current group very well. He gives them another excellent kicking mid to keep Reiwoldt happy.
Pick 30
Andrew Phillips
DOB 3/7/91 Ht 201 Wt 91
Richmond have a few young ruck prospects in their side but none have really stepped up and shown any consistent form. Therefore it would not surprise me if another young prospect was added this year and Phillips is the clear cut third best prospect this year. Richmond really need a ruck that can give their young mid brigade first crack at the ball and Phillips has the potential to be an excellent ruck technician.
Pick 47
Jed Lamb
DOB 19/10/92 Ht 181 Wt 79
Richmond might look at taking another HFF / wing with the move of Morton into the midfield and Collins and Roberts moving on. I have some serious concerns about Lamb but its hard to argue that he wouldn’t be value here.
Pick 51
Myles Sewell
Height: 185cm, Weight: 78kg, DOB: 22 years old
Despite the attention that Martin, Cotchin and Deledio received in the media it was clear this year that the midfield at the moment does not function without Tuck. When he wasn’t in there in the early season the Tigers were not in the game. Accordingly I am going with a guy with similar limited athletic talent but similar ball winning ability. Sewell is a nuts and bolts guys who will win the ball to allow the stars to shine.
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Overall I think this might be the hardest year I have been associated mocked on. I am never close but this year I think I will be further from the money than ever. The first 15 or so are pretty clear cut but from there the talent level is very even. I think there are probably 120 or more guys with legitimate chances of being taken in the national draft and I could easily see a team falling in love with any of them and taking them in the second round.
A few general observations:
* The top of this draft is definitely affected by the guys taken by the GC last year but there will still be some elite players taken in the top 15. The difference is that there is more risk of those guys flopping than usual.
* This year’s crop might be the strongest marking group I have seen. There are a lot of very good marks this year.
* The handballing skills of this group are relatively poor compared with most years. As always there are exceptions.
* The medium distance flat laser kick is not a skill very prevalent this year.
* This is a good year if you are after an inside mid and are prepared to expend a first round pick on one. Outside mids will be very hit and miss although a lot of the usual outside mids might be playing as HBFers. The half back flanker crop is strong and deep. The standard of small forwards is poor and I wouldn’t be spending a high pick on any of the U18 prospects.
* There are a couple of reasonable KP prospects available early but overall the quality of this year’s KP crop is pretty poor. With the forwards there are a few prospects I like a bit later in the draft but even then they have injury issues associated with them. If you miss out on the top 2 defenders you are picking guys with very big question marks over them even if they are capable of playing the position.
*I like 4 rucks in this draft quite a lot but after that I would be waiting for the rookie draft or taking a mature aged player.
Full mock draft and player by player summary here:
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=774682
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Seems the Cats believe their window is still open....
GEELONG appears to be interested in taking 21-year-old Isaac Smith with pick No.15 in the NAB AFL Draft.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/104974/default.aspx
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I think these have applied to a few Tiger draft picks over the years :lol
Foxsports.com.au brings you the ultimate guide to the 2010 NAB AFL Draft
* By John Clark, Martin Smith & The Adjudicator
* FOX SPORTS
* November 17, 2010
SAY WHAT?
You are bound to hear a few favourite phrases from recruiters on Thursday night as the teenage meat market unfolds. To make sense of it all, here's The Adjudicator's guide to debunking the draft speak.
They say: Late bloomer.
Mr A says: Talented as a 10-year-old, this kid spent years at the skate park and dabbled in graffiti. When his old man threatened him with part-time work, the boy said he wanted to go back and play footy. The fear of a job in the real world is driving him.
They say: Project player.
Mr A says: Gangly teenager who grew 20cm in year 11 and now can't get his arms and legs to work in unison. Will spend three seasons adding 20kg to his frame before his back gives way and his AFL dream ends.
They say: In and under.
Mr A says: The boy makes Justin Madden look fleet of foot. He will bash and crash in for 100 games before the pain catches up with him. Think Brock McLean.
They say: Outside player.
Mr A says: Doesn't like watching horror movies on his own in the dark. In fact, he hates the dark. Pace to burn but usually used to get away from any form of physical contact.
They say: Can play anywhere.
Mr A says: They tried him in defence and didn't man up, they used him as a forward but he can't kick straight, and he's not fit enough to be a midfielder or tall enough to ruck. Need to find somewhere to hide him.
They say: He's never rushed.
Mr A says: Hard to tell if he's awake sometimes. Socks down, jumper out, probably grow a beard and go surfing for weeks on end during the off season.
They say: Super competitive.
Mr A says: Once threw a tennis racquet at his sister's head after she called a ball long.
They say: Talented all-round sportsman.
Mr A says: One of those annoying kids who was good at everything he played. And knew it.
They say: Born leader.
Mr A says: Nerd. School captain, did all his homework on time, helped old ladies with their shopping.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/foxsportscomau-gives-you-the-ultimate-guide-to-the-2010-nab-afl-draft/story-e6frf33l-1225954753277
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Daffey's phantom draft on the afl site: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/105263/default.aspx
Interesting to note what he says at pick 20. Only the first 30 reproduced here.
1. GOLD COAST - David Swallow
Height: 186cm
Weight: 83kg
DOB: 19/11/92
Club: East Fremantle (WA)
Draft range: 1
The Suns showed their hand when they persuaded Swallow to join their program a year early, having guaranteed his selection in the top three in the 2010 draft. The midfielder excelled to the extent that he finished fourth in the VFL's Liston Trophy. He's got endurance, speed, toughness and skill on both sides. There really does seem no limit to what he could do.
2. GOLD COAST - Harley Bennell
Height: 185cm
Weight: 74kg
DOB: 02/10/92
Club: Peel Thunder (WA)
Draft range: 2-3
Bennell has that rare quality of being able to read the ball off a pack several seconds before all around him. With his pace and vision, he also has the ability to bring spectators forward in their seats, in the same way that crowds sat up whenever Gary Ablett went near the ball during his teenage years. Expect to be delighted.
3. GOLD COAST - Sam Day
Height: 196cm
Weight: 96kg
DOB: 06/09/92
Club: Sturt (SA)
Draft range: 2-3
Day has height, spring, marking ability, goalkicking ability and he's of sound character. If not for footy, he could have pursued a professional baseball or basketball career in the US. He's never dominated a game for four quarters, but then footy's always been a lark to him. Rapid improvement should follow when he knuckles down.
4. WEST COAST - Andrew Gaff
Height: 182cm
Weight: 78kg
DOB: 16/06/92
Club: Oakleigh Chargers (Vic)
Draft range: 4-5
Gaff is not so much an excitement machine as he is an accumulator who finds and distributes the ball from the first minute to the last. He won the three-kilometre race at the draft combine in 10 minutes and finished equal second in the beep test with 15.3. He's not flashy; he's just effective. You see 200, or even 300 no-fuss games written all over him.
5. BRISBANE LIONS - Dyson Heppell
Height: 189cm
Weight: 80kg
DOB: 14/05/92
Club: Gippsland Power (Vic)
Draft range: 5-6
Heppell went from being a lolloping half-back halfway through the season to the most dynamic midfielder in the TAC Cup before the season was out. His range of abilities was shown at the combine when he ran 14.3 in the beep test, finished second in the clean-hands test, and excelled in the standing vertical jump. The Lions are said to be wavering but should take him.
6. RICHMOND - Jared Polec
Height: 189cm
Weight: 80kg
DOB: 12/10/92
Club: Woodville-West Torrens (SA)
Draft range: 5-6
The silky wingman has the ability to burst clear of a pack before spotting up a teammate or kicking a long left-foot goal. His two seasons of senior footy in the SANFL have included two finals series in which he excelled. His otherwise inconsistent form suggests he needs a challenge. Richmond has a history of offering those.
7. GOLD COAST - Josh Caddy
Height: 186cm
Weight: 82kg
DOB: 28/09/92
Club: Northern Knights (Vic)
Draft range: 7-8
Given the Suns' list is choc-a-block with fast, outside midfielders, Caddy offers the perfect antidote with his bulldozing work around stoppages. He won the clean-hands contest at the draft combine and finished in the top 10 in the three-kilometre run, mainly through grit rather than an abundance of slow-twitch muscle fibres. It's the grit that wins admirers.
8. ESSENDON - Shaun Atley
Height: 189cm
Weight: 81kg
DOB: 13/09/92
Club: Murray Bushrangers (Vic)
Draft range: 7-9
The Bombers need fast, top-line midfielders and Atley fits the bill. He wins the ball inside and outside. His attitude is superb. You imagine he'll benefit from living near Windy Hill rather than driving five hours from his home in Corryong to fulfil representative duties in Melbourne, as he's done during his junior years.
9. GOLD COAST - Dion Prestia
Height: 175cm
Weight: 82kg
DOB: 12/10/92
Club: Calder Cannons (Vic)
Draft range: 9-12
It's been noticeable in junior matches that Prestia clears the heads of leading forwards who underestimate his kicking strength. His ability to scoot away from congestion is also obvious. Prestia offers pace and drive, inside and outside. The only doubt is hamstring injuries, which should be ironed out through more targeted training regimes and the medical facilities at the Suns.
10. GOLD COAST - Tom Lynch
Height: 199cm
Weight: 91kg
DOB: 31/10/92
Club: Dandenong Stingrays (Vic)
Draft range: 9-12
Last year Lynch played as a midfielder in the under-18s at Sorrento on the Mornington Peninsula. This year he's the draft's biggest bolter after finding his feet as a key forward midway through the season with the Vic Country team. He's not fast; in fact he's slow. But he can run all day and he can mark and kick goals. There's oodles of development in him.
11. GOLD COAST - Seb Tape
Height: 191cm
Weight: 81kg
DOB: 06/08/92
Club: Glenelg (SA)
Draft range: 9-14
Tape is a negating defender. Under normal circumstances he would be lucky to go so high, but the Suns have early picks to play with, and it makes sense to round out the bevy of midfielders and ruckmen with a player who'll cut out the opposition's best forward. Tape's only senior game in the SANFL, when he was Glenelg's best in a final, impressed many.
12. MELBOURNE - Daniel Gorringe
Height: 200cm
Weight: 88kg
DOB: 02/06/92
Club: Norwood (SA)
Draft range: 9-14
If Gorringe gets through to 12, the Demons have a bargain. His ability to find teammates with deft tap work is his trademark. He can also go forward. He's played senior footy in the SANFL and you imagine he'll adapt to the AFL quicker than most young ruckmen. Was tipped to be top 10 all year, but the cards have fallen differently.
13. GOLD COAST - Jayden Pitt
Height: 188cm
Weight: 70kg
DOB: 07/10/92
Club: Geelong/St Albans (Vic)
Draft range: 12-20
Pitt dropped away late in the season, when his slight body gave out after a gruelling schedule, but the Suns' recruiting boss Scott Clayton loves his pinpoint kicking and his ability to avoid trouble. His star rose early in the under-18 championships. It'll rise again.
14. ADELAIDE - Brodie Smith
Height: 189cm
Weight: 78kg
DOB: 14/01/92
Club: Woodville-West Torrens (SA)
Draft range: 12-20
After drafting key position players in recent seasons, the Crows are ready to acquire elite midfielders who show leadership skills. Smith strikes as just the player. He's a midfielder or half-back who runs 20 and kicks 50. He's quiet; he gets things done. It's a style that would appeal to Neil Craig.
15. GEELONG - Billie Smedts
Height: 189cm
Weight: 76kg
DOB: 08/06/92
Club: Geelong Falcons (Vic)
Draft range: 12-20
The Cats have been strongly linked with Isaac Smith but look likely to go for Smedts despite his injury-interrupted season. Smedts finished first in the agility test at the draft combine. Mostly he offers versatility (half-forward, half-back and midfield) as well as a competitive edge. Several clubs with picks in the teens have been linked with him.
16. PORT ADELAIDE - Scott Lycett
Height: 202cm
Weight: 98kg
DOB: 26/09/92
Club: Port Adelaide Magpies (SA)
Draft range: 15-25
Sometimes the best selections are under your nose. Lycett broke into senior ranks at the Port Magpies this season, having left his hometown on South Australia's far west coast to concentrate on footy in Adelaide. He showed a strong nerve and willingness to compete. They're very Port Adelaide qualities.
17. NORTH MELBOURNE - Isaac Smith
Height: 187cm
Weight: 75kg
DOB: 30/12/88
Club: North Ballarat Roosters (Vic)
Draft range: 15-25
Smith is a 21-year-old stringbean wingman with untapped ability. He started 2010 with Ballarat league club Redan and ended it a member of North Ballarat's VFL premiership team. North has plenty of in-and-under midfielders with grunt. They need a midfielder with pace and class.
18. CARLTON - Matthew Watson
Height: 195cm
Weight: 101kg
DOB: 16/07/92
Club: Calder Cannons (Vic)
Draft range: 15-30
The Blues have a glaring weakness in key defenders and Watson is the best-credentialled player in the draft to fill the breach. Unlike Michael Jamison, who struggles to get the ball, Watson is adept at winning the ball and kicking it 60 metres to position. He has a knack of beating the best opponents by nudging them out with his heavy frame.
19. HAWTHORN - Jed Lamb
Height: 181cm
Weight: 79kg
DOB: 19/10/92
Club: Gippsland Power (Vic)
Draft range: 15-25
Lamb is a natural forward who's also able to pick up his share of kicks on a wing. In years to come, he'll play in the centre square. He's got a touch of magic and a dash of cheek. He won the kicking drill at the draft combine. There's a lot to like.
20. FREMANTLE - Reece Conca
Height: 185cm
Weight: 79kg
DOB: 12/08/92
Club: Perth (WA)
Draft range: 15-25
Conca has this week been linked to Richmond at six but he seems more likely to be a late first-round pick. He was unable to test in running events at the combine because he was on crutches; spurs had been removed from his ankle. But he excelled at the one test he was able to do: the reflexes test. He's level-headed and ready to go. In these strange times, they're very Freo traits.
21. SYDNEY SWANS - Ben Jacobs
Height: 186cm
Weight: 82kg
DOB: 09/01/92
Club: Sandringham Dragons (Vic)
Draft range: 10-30
Jacobs strikes as a half-back with the ability to go forward or into the midfield. He's had sprint coaching to round out a set of qualities that starts with footy smarts. He sets up play. He could go higher, say to Hawthorn at 19, and it wouldn't surprise.
22. WESTERN BULLDOGS - Mitch Wallis (father-son)
Height: 185cm
Weight: 80kg
DOB: 24/10/92
Club: Calder Cannons (Vic)
Draft range: 22
The father-son pick earned an elephant stamp of the highest order when he claimed 47 possessions in the TAC Cup grand final and won the medal for best on ground. His performance preceded those of Dale Thomas and Steele Sidebottom in this year's AFL grand finals. Thomas (2005) and Sidebottom (2008) were named best on ground in their TAC Cup grand finals, so Wallis is in good company.
23. GEELONG - Pat McCarthy
Height: 196cm
Weight: 84kg
DOB: 11/03/92
Club: Glenelg (SA)
Draft range: 15-35
Tall utility who can take a mark and hare downfield. Height enables him to play on tall opponents, but he's also handy on smaller opponents. Sees himself as a forward or back but he seems best suited to playing as the third defender. The Cats like his leadership potential.
24. ST KILDA - Cameron Guthrie
Height: 186cm
Weight: 79kg
DOB: 19/08/92
Club: Calder Cannons (Vic)
Draft range: 15-35
Tough-minded player who's clearly the best midfield stopper in the draft, as he showed against quality opponents in the under-18 championships and when he shut out Dyson Heppell in the TAC Cup grand final. He's got pace, which is a Saints requirement for this pick, and he can kick goals when thrown forward. Essendon would love him to fall to 31 but it's not likely to happen.
25. BRISBANE LIONS - Kieran Harper
Height: 187cm
Weight: 80kg
DOB: 15/06/92
Club: Eastern Ranges (Vic)
Draft range: 15-35
Supremely talented utility with a big leap and speed who's prone to inconsistency. His testing confirmed his physical capabilities, especially in the vertical jump events. He also finished third in the repeat sprint. The best indication of his ability was his four superb goals with Vic Metro in the final game of the under-18 championships.
26. WEST COAST - Jack Darling (priority)
Height: 191cm
Weight: 87kg
DOB: 16/06/92
Club: West Perth (WA)
Draft range: 15-30
Darling is the most intriguing prospect in the draft. He has the talent to go higher, perhaps to Carlton at 18, but the limited development in his mannish frame and his penchant for landing in trouble are likely to see him fall in the 20s. The Eagles, at the end of the first round, would snap up a WA boy with massive competitive drive.
27. NORTH MELBOURNE - Lucas Cook (compensation)
Height: 196cm
Weight: 81kg
DOB: 03/03/92
Club: North Ballarat Rebels (Vic)
Draft range: 25-35
Key forward with a clean pair of hands whose endurance was indicated by his top-10 finish (10.34) in the three-kilometre time-trial at the combine. He also finished in the top 10 in the kicking drill. Cook would have been a monty for the top 20 before his form fell away in the second half of the under-18 championships. He'll build up and become more durable.
28. BRISBANE LIONS - Jamie Cripps
Height: 183cm
Weight: 75kg
DOB: 23/04/92
Club: East Fremantle (WA)
Draft range: 20-35
Exciting half-back who might go higher, say to Freo at 20. Cripps' ability was exemplified by his five goals in a senior game for East Fremantle. By the end of the season, he was in the Sharks' best three players. His running goal in East Freo's only final, when he bounced the ball from half-back before kicking from outside 50, was among the highlights of the WAFL season.
29. WEST COAST - Kirk Ugle
Height: 171cm
Weight: 69kg
DOB: 06/05/92
Club: Swan Districts (WA)
Draft range: 25-40
Small forward who spent most of the 2010 season with Carey Park in Bunbury in south-west WA, where he once kicked seven goals from eight kicks on a wing. Played four colts games with Swan Districts and was best on ground in three. Short but dynamic. Superb left foot.
30. RICHMOND - Mitch Hallahan
Height: 184cm
Weight: 81kg
DOB: 23/08/92
Club: Dandenong Stingrays (Vic)
Draft range: 20-35
Vic Country captain who showed his toughness by playing the entire 2010 season with an injured ankle. Known for boring into packs, Hallahan's reputation for ruggedness is enhanced by his status as a junior boxing champion. The only criticism - and it's minor - is that he's not got one outstanding trait, just a lot of excellent ones.
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I think these have applied to a few Tiger draft picks over the years :lol
Foxsports.com.au brings you the ultimate guide to the 2010 NAB AFL Draft
* By John Clark, Martin Smith & The Adjudicator
* FOX SPORTS
* November 17, 2010
.........................
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/foxsportscomau-gives-you-the-ultimate-guide-to-the-2010-nab-afl-draft/story-e6frf33l-1225954753277
Didn't like my thread OE? :'(
;D
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I think these have applied to a few Tiger draft picks over the years :lol
Foxsports.com.au brings you the ultimate guide to the 2010 NAB AFL Draft
* By John Clark, Martin Smith & The Adjudicator
* FOX SPORTS
* November 17, 2010
.........................
http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/foxsportscomau-gives-you-the-ultimate-guide-to-the-2010-nab-afl-draft/story-e6frf33l-1225954753277
Didn't like my thread OE? :'(
;D
Ah bugger! ;D That's the second time today I've missed a post already posted :wallywink. I'll delete mine smokey.
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Here's the link to the draft tracker
http://drafttracker.afl.com.au/
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Why is the AFL still persisting with this stupid top 10 countdown when again like last year already we know who is going No.1 and most of the top 10? ???
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Why is the AFL still persisting with this stupid top 10 countdown when again like last year already we know who is going No.1 and most of the top 10? ???
Just wish Foxs would stop babbling and get on with it
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Andy D on the podium so the draft about to start. Let's hope he doesn't start at round 2 by mistake this time ;D
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He's babbling onto about nothing as usual
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He's babbling onto about nothing as usual
LMAO
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8. Ess - Dyson Heppell
9. GC - Dion Prestia
10. GC - Daniel Gorringe
Sounds like Conca is definitely our man
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6. Rich - Reece Conca
7. GC - Josh Caddy
Reece confirmed as is our boy
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
Just increases the rivalry between us and Bomber fans. Interesting the Dons didn't go for a inside player to help Watson.
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
Looked okay in the short video :thumbsup
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
Just increases the rivalry between us and Bomber fans. Interesting the Dons didn't go for a inside player to help Watson.
Probalby because Caddy was taken the pikc before by GC
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I hope for Cameron and FJ sake he doesnt turn out to be a spud. A top 15 pick at best yet we take him at 6.
Letting that out for all too see was an absolute disgrace and showed we are as amateur as we were 10 years ago.
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Top 10 done and dusted
1. GC - David Swallow
2. GC - Harley Bennell
3. GC - Sam Day
4. WC - Andrew Gaff
5. Bris - Jared Polec
6. Rich - Reece Conca
7. GC - Josh Caddy
8. Ess - Dyson Heppell
9. GC - Dion Prestia
10. GC - Daniel Gorringe
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
I would have like Atley for us personally but Conca is now a Tiger and good luck to him.
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
Just increases the rivalry between us and Bomber fans. Interesting the Dons didn't go for a inside player to help Watson.
Probalby because Caddy was taken the pikc before by GC
True. Atley was expected to go to them going by Bomber fans. Essendon obviously don't think the groin problem is an issue.
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Atley not a top 10 wow.. Someone will have a steal Im already praying for him to last to 30 lol..
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Would have liked Heppell, lets hope Conca is good.
I would have like Atley for us personally but Conca is now a Tiger and good luck to him.
Yes I liked him too but went toward Heppell at the death.
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11. GC - Tom Lynch
12. Melb - Lucas Cook
13. GC - Seb Tabe
14. Adel - Brodie Smith
15. Geel - Billy Smedts
16. Port -Ben Jacobs
17. North - Shaun Atley
18. Carl - Matthew Watson
19. Haw - Issac Smith
20. Freo - Jayden Pitt
21. Syd - Jed Lamb
22. WB - Mitch Wallis (F/S)
23. Geel - Cameron Guthrie
24. St K - Jamie Cripps
25. Bris - Pat Karnezis
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Jake Darling get him!!!
Josh Green maybe available?
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Jeez I hope Darling gets through to 30 ???
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I hope for Cameron and FJ sake he doesnt turn out to be a spud. A top 15 pick at best yet we take him at 6.
Letting that out for all too see was an absolute disgrace and showed we are as amateur as we were 10 years ago.
Well at least it didn't effect the actual draft and the Club still got their man. It'll be proof of the pudding if the Club were smart going for someone unexpected in the top 10 publicly.
Atley fell to North :o
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Reckon it will be Hallahan or Lycett if there
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Jeez I hope Darling gets through to 30 ???
I will dance nude
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once again North scooped the pool.
to get Harper and Atley they must be pinching themselves.
as terrible as they are off field they recruit so smart and i have no doubt they have 2 gems there
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Shattered with first two picks :(
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Shattered with first two picks :(
how come mate?
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There is alot of clubs that are needing a fair bit of time to make a decision.
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Shattered with first two picks :(
Reckon they both look like good picks, looks as they they make good decisions and kick really well.
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26. WC - Jack Darling
27. North - Keiren Hrper
28. Bris - Ryan Lester
29. WC - Scott Lycett
30. Rich - Jay Batchelor
31. Ess - Arial Steinberg
32. Bris - Joshua Green
33. Melb - Jeremy Howe
34. Carl - Patrick McCarthy
35. Port - Ben Newton
36. Port - Aaron Young
37. Geel - George Horlin-Smith
38. Haw - Mitchell Hallahan
39. GC - Jeremy Taylor
40. Syd - Luke Parker
41. WB - Tom Liberatore (F/S)
42. Carl - Luke Mitchell
43. St K - Sam Crocker
44. Freo - Viv Michie
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Shattered with first two picks :(
how come mate?
I wouldn't be too worried, if Bentleigh doesn't rate him then there's a good chance he'll be a gun
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Looks like we're loading up on outside mids to complement Dusty, Cotch and Foley.
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Looks like we're loading up on outside mids to complement Dusty, Cotch and Foley.
Yeah I was just thinking KPPs anyone?
Oops I forgot ...Brad Miller ;D
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From the live chat on the tracker
'Paul Daffey: Dean McDonald to Richmond at 51. Unconventional Tigers throughout this draft."
I have no idea what to make of it, just throwing it out there.
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3rd Round
45. Coll - ?
46. Coll - ?
47. Rich - Bradley Helbig
48. Ess- Alex Browne
49. Bris - Jacob Gillbee
50. Melb- Troy Davis
51. Rich - Dean MacDonald
52. Port - Cameron O'Shea
53. Melb - Tom McDonald
54. Geel - Jordan Schroder
55. Haw - Angus Litherland
56. Freo - Josh Mellington
57. Syd - Alex Johnson
58. Geel - James Podsiadly (rookie elevation)
59. St K - Tom Ledger
60. Coll - Kirk Ugle
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From the live chat on the tracker
'Paul Daffey: Dean McDonald to Richmond at 51. Unconventional Tigers throughout this draft."
I have no idea what to make of it, just throwing it out there.
All picks so far were on the leaked list :whistle
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all running players thus far.. well they've definitely gone in with a planned strategy
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Round 4
61. Bris - Jarryd Lyons
62. WC - Jacob Brennan (F/S)
63. Rich - Tom Derickx
64. Ess - ?
65. Bris - Claye Beams (rookie elevation)
66. Haw - Paul Puopolo
67. Haw - Andrew McInnes
68. Port - Cameron Hitchcock (rookie elevation)
69. North - Cameron Delaney
70. Carl - Nicholas Duigan
71. North - Ben Mabon
72. Freo - Pass
73. Syd - Matthew Spanger (ex-WC)
74. WB - Jayden Schofield
75. St K - Arryn Siposs
76. Coll - Paul Seedsman
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happy with conca but there seems to have been lots of speculation on every one of our picks from pick 2 onwards.
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all running players thus far.. well they've definitely gone in with a planned strategy
All 5 on the leaked list on the RFC site ;)
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Shattered with first two picks :(
This time last year we were saying Webberley who, Nason who, Astbury who. Faith and patience Grasshopper.
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all running players thus far.. well they've definitely gone in with a planned strategy
Yep, we know what we are doing, which is a good sign.
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Round 5
77. Collingwood - Trent Stubbs
78. West Coast - Lewis Stevenson (rookie elevation)
79. Richmond - Pass
80. Essendon - Michael Ross
81. Melbourne - Jordie McKenzie (rookie elevation)
82. Adelaide - Ricky Henderson (rookie elevation)
83. Port Adelaide - Danny Meyer (rookie elevation)
84. West Coast - Andrew Strijk (rookie elevation)
85. Carlton - David Ellard (rookie elevation)
86. Hawthorn - Pass
87. Fremantle - Michael Barlow (rookie elevation)
88. W.Bulldogs - Zephaniah Skinner
89. W.Bulldogs - Tom Hill
90. St Kilda - Tom Simpkin (rookie elevation)
91. Collingwood - Jarryd Blair (rookie elevation)
Round 6
92. Collingwood - Lachlan Keeffe (rookie elevation)
93. West Coast - Callum Wilson (rookie elevation)
94. Richmond - David Gourdis (rookie elevation)
95. Essendon - Pass
96. Melbourne - Jake Spencer (rookie elevation)
97. Adelaide - Matthew Jaensch (rookie elevation)
98. North Melbourne - Ben Speight (rookie elevation)
99. Carlton - Jeff Garlett (rookie elevation)
100. Fremantle - Alex Silvagni (rookie elevation)
101. Sydney - Mike Pyke (rookie elevation)
102. Western Bulldogs - Andrew Hooper (rookie elevation)
103. St Kilda - Dean Polo
104. Collingwood - Tom Young (rookie elevation)
Round 7
105. Gold Coast - Pass
106. Essendon - Ben Howlett (rookies elevation)
107. Adelaide - Luke Thompson (rookie elevation)
108. Carlton - Simon White (rookie elevation)
109. Fremantle - Matt de Boer (rookie elevation)
110. Western Bulldogs - Brodie Moles (rookie elevation)
111. St Kilda - Tom Simpkin (rookie elevation)
Round 8
112. Fremantle - Jay van Berlo (rookie elevation)
AND THAT'S ALL FOLKS!
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Solid and unspectacular draft for us.
No Martins like last year but hey good luck boys.
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Solid and unspectacular draft for us.
No Martins like last year but hey good luck boys.
I wouldnt call it solid by any stretch of the imagination. After Conca the rest was roulette wheel stuff. Way to many risks this year and could have taken players at picks with exposed form that would be more safe.
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I reckon we were after Lycett but didn't get him.
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Most clubs are in the same situation as us bar Gold Coast.
Sure its a risk but I am not too unhappy with the type of players they went after.
I reckon we were after Lycett but didn't get him.
Yeah went one pick before Batchelor.
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Shattered with first two picks :(
This time last year we were saying Webberley who, Nason who, Astbury who. Faith and patience Grasshopper.
remember that name l told you in the year OL Smokey, :thumbsup His a Richmond supporter & his crying like a baby right now ;D
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I hope FJ knows what he's doing
Not going to bag his picks as we went through the same thing last year, but a very left field bunch of players have been taken
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Apart from Conca the other picks were not mentioned on any phantom drafts. l think FJ has been very bold but very risky. 8)
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Apart from Conca the other picks were not mentioned on any phantom drafts. l think FJ has been very bold but very risky. 8)
maybe because l'm not into that crap phantom stuff
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Shattered with first two picks :(
This time last year we were saying Webberley who, Nason who, Astbury who. Faith and patience Grasshopper.
this time last year I was happy with Taylor, griffiths. This time around worried we leaked our selections. Might have overlooked a great kid in favor at pick #6. the rest of the dudes we got
got I have no idea about but they have funny named. Welcome to Richmond to them.
I hope the list has the core already in place and this lot of kids is filling in the gaps
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Lets hope Jackson hasn't just murdered Hardwick as a coach.
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From the live chat on the tracker
'Paul Daffey: Dean McDonald to Richmond at 51. Unconventional Tigers throughout this draft."
I have no idea what to make of it, just throwing it out there.
i think he meant they're all good kicks.
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Apart from Conca the other picks were not mentioned on any phantom drafts. l think FJ has been very bold but very risky. 8)
most of them were mentioned in inside football in the draft extras section after the main group of kids.
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The coaches, the recruiting staff, Conca and his parents are all out having dinner together right now.
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Shattered with first two picks :(
This time last year we were saying Webberley who, Nason who, Astbury who. Faith and patience Grasshopper.
remember that name l told you in the year OL Smokey, :thumbsup His a Richmond supporter & his crying like a baby right now ;D
Yep, great effort TM, your call was spot on. Hope he lives up to the reputation you have built up for him!! ;D
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I hope FJ knows what he's doing
If he wanted Conca so badly, he should've traded for a pick 15 or so, as it seems he may not have gone off til then.
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I hope FJ knows what he's doing
If he wanted Conca so badly, he should've traded for a pick 15 or so, as it seems he may not have gone off til then.
Agreed, fair chance we could have traded Pick 6 for 10 & 18 or something like that.
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Wallace just said on SEN we confused him with our picks so some might say that's a positive :D
For those that can read body language here's a couple of pics of Dimma during the draft
(http://images.slatterymedia.com/images/thumbs/main/220623.jpg)
(http://images.slatterymedia.com/images/thumbs/main/220588.jpg)
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lets all hope his coaching career didnt just get slaughtered/
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From Emma Quayle's twitter page:
"Some bits & pieces from the draft. Polec was never in the Tigers' plans, since midyear Conca was the one they wanted..."
http://twitter.com/emmasq
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poor kid - hes already got a massive load of pressure on his shoulders to perform at a similar level to the likes of Heppell and co.
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poor kid - hes already got a massive load of pressure on his shoulders to perform at a similar level to the likes of Heppell and co.
Yep and its quite stupid as well. Conca is a good player and will be very good IMHO. The other selections need to be the ones in focus.
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From the highlights package we have done very well..
All players have good vision and can kick.
Definite pass at this stage even if only in theory !!!
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I hope FJ knows what he's doing
If he wanted Conca so badly, he should've traded for a pick 15 or so, as it seems he may not have gone off til then.
thats a great point, we could have done some major deals with pick six 8)
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If they had traded out of pick 6 punt road would have been burnt to the ground, along with effigies of cameron and jackson
You don't watch someone for a couple of years, decide they are the man you want, then downgrade your first pick because you think they will still be about at pick such and such. That sort of gamble is utter madness.
As it was Jackson was nervous someone else would call his name out before pick 6.
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As it was Jackson was nervous someone else would call his name out before pick 6.
That would be because our list was leaked. ;D
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Post from a regular on Tiger-Talk:
Caught up with a mate and got talking about the draft. He watches a bunch of junior footy, so here was what he thought -
Said that in Conca we went for a guaranteed 200 game player (*) who was every chance of being vice captain to Lids at age 21 (3 years time). He said there were other higher potential players out there, but potential = risk, and if you're at the bottom of the ladder, you *have* to make your 1st pick in every draft count. His words - "safe". (* - I've put the moz on him, but subject to injury)
On Batchelor - thought that he was worthy of pick 30-45. Quintessential modern footballer - he can play tall and short, play zones and man on man (although better zoning off at this point).
On Helbig - stereotypical HFF. Lots of flair and class. Can be lazy, can ignore his man, can get forward of the play. His issue in common with other HFFs is whether he can get tougher, win his own footy, chase, tackle, work hard etc.
McDonald has a very good power-package (strong hips, tackling, jumping, accelerating etc) but doesn't have stamina. Stereotypical Morwell boy (....), so watch out if he latches onto Dan Connors and finds some trouble at some stage.
Derrixck he described as typical state league ruckman. Slow developer but improved this year. Has to keep improving at that rate, but could be second stringer. You'd probably pick him ahead of Browne and Vickery at this stage. If you look at our list, we had to take a ready to go ruckman so it really was him or Jon Giles (Sturt). Giles
was the popular tip.
My mate felt Conca & Batchelor were probably picks where our system & gameplan influenced the pick. He thought Helbig was a flighty talent who could go either way - turn out great, or be a bust. You know what you need to do with McDonald - work him into the ground stamina wise.
Derrickx is the ruck insurance, which you may have used a rookie pick on.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/tiger-talk/message/94215 (http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/tiger-talk/message/94215)
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I would have liked a key position player somewhere in there.
Next year I think we need a quality key defender and a quality key forward.