Ben Griffiths [merged]

[YellowandBlackBlood]

In fairness, he has been calling Griff soft long before this concussion

To be honest "fairness" is not a word I would use here. This is what big tone said in another thread about Vickery:

I think we need to persevere with Tyrone for this year anyway.
He needs to be sat down and look at what Brodie Grundy is doing at Collingwood. They are very similar size, body type and athletic ability. . Gundy in his second year of AFL footy just jumps at every bounce, tries to get in front in every throw in giving him the best chance to get his hands on the ball first and tries to help out around the ground when he can. He is not doing anything special just doing the simple things that ANY ruckman shoud do, well.
Big Tyrone is better than he is producing at present. He is a reasonable mark and kick, moves ok and pretty good when the ball is on the ground. He just needs to be instructed to jump all day long, no more run in, stop, walk around the ruckman and try and tap it to our advantage.. Just run in, jump, put your knee into the other ruckman and KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL.
IMO he needs more time in the ruck, we have tended to try and protect him but he just needs to crack in and complete, he is not a boy anymore.
Collingwood have done that with Grundy and he has done really well.
Time to give big Tyrone some responsibility.

Yet, he always lists Griff as a dud. This is a player who is one year younger than Tyrone who was originally plagued with shoulder issues that required reconstructions and bone grafting.  The guy has had a poor start to his AFL career consequently.  He has caught up and surpassed Tyrone in many aspects (not all) of the game.

I just think it is unfair to personally denigrate one player who has been less than stellar but support another similar type who has been even more putrid.

If you want to bag players, and some deserved to be bagged, don't make it personal. BT is doing just that because on most measures he seems unreasonable in his support of one player while denigrating another who on face value has performed better of late. That is all.

[Yeahright]

This doesn't have anything to do with TV. He's being calling Griffiths soft and he also mentioned the incident looked soft and it seems you've jumped on that as the be all end all of the argument.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

This doesn't have anything to do with TV. He's being calling Griffiths soft and he also mentioned the incident looked soft and it seems you've jumped on that as the be all end all of the argument.

So you think it is ok to have certain standards for some players and others of similar ilk to be judged by different standards?  That is my point.

[big tone]

Sometimes the most innocuous blows can give you concussion. Some people on this forum are just plain ignorant on what this is all about.

Softness has NOTHING to do with it.

If the guy was jumping up and down and writhing in agony because someone slapped him, that would be "soft".

Just get your medical facts correct before you all make ridiculous comments.

What medical facts are there Doc?
Don't use your position as a doctor to assume you know about every collision that happens the the footy field.
All I said it looked soft, and it does. Maybe we should do a poll as you need to feel more comfortable with people backing your opinion.   

"Concussion is a brain injury and is defined as a complex physiological process affecting the brain, induced by biomechanical forces. Concussion may be caused by either a direct or indirect blow to the head, face, neck or body causing an impulsive force transmitted to the head."
http://sma.org.au/resources-advice/concussion/

In other words you don't need a direct blow. You only need to have the force transmitted to the head which is what happened to Ben. Now big tone, I don't know what you do for a living, but I would hesitate to say you know a lot more than I do about your area of work. So don't pretend you know anything about neurology and neuroscience because you clearly do not. I am not using my position here to do anything but just state facts.
Concussion is still an area where we a increasing our knowledge. What we don't need is armchair experts saying players are "soft" when all they can see is a distorted view through a TV lens that does not give you a 360 degree view of the incident. Sorry but that is just bulldust.

Thanks for your definition of concussion. You don't need to be a doctor to google that but thanks for letting us all know again that you are a doctor. I'm sure your family are really proud of you but on here you are just another poster with an opinion.

When I asked for facts I meant regarding the slight bump that Griff took. Not a definition on what it was and how you can get it.

What I will say as an armchair expert, I'm allowed to think someone is soft if I see it that way. I don't need you because you have a degree telling me what I see and don't see. I have said I think Biff is soft basically from day one of seeing him and watching him again go off on the weekend from what looked like an innocuous bump didn't change my mind. He missed last week with something else, but after 1 week he is right to play again.
I don't just think he is a bit soft  because he has missed more games than he has played since being at the footy club but the way he plays. I feel he lacks desperation at the footy and at the man with the footy. When he hasn't got the footy and that's a lot, he is basically a liability to our side.
IMO he is a highlights package, he generally takes a nice mark a game and sometimes kicks a goal but he doesn't do much else to help the team. We have too many guys that are just not prepared to pay the price of what it takes to make us a great team again.
If I had my way I'd get rid of Biff and TV but if I had to keep one I'd keep TV. I see more in him than I see in Biff that would contribute to us being a better side. He is not as flashy but he hits the scoreboard and the last time I checked that is the name of the game.
Anyway I hope Griff is recovering well but I also hope he misses this week so we can see McBean.

[Go Richo 12]

I don't get to watch our two's very often but when looking at the results McBean seems to kick a few goals but rarely gets named in the best. What is his upside compared to Griff and Tyrone? Is he just a younger version.

[Jackstar is back!!!]

McBean has a bit of an X factor
Very very good below the knees and very mobile
Downside and reason he hasn't been played is his defensive skills

[YellowandBlackBlood]

The problem with McBean is he plays small.  He doesn't take pack marks or use his height to advantage. That said, the opposition probably haven't cottoned on to this and would put a tall on him that is less agile which may play into his hands.

Anything is better than what we are getting form our talls. One of the problems is they can easily double team them because we play one or two too few talls in our team.

[🏅Dooks]

McBean is ok as a lead up forward so in that respect he plays tall. But yeah hardly your contested marking machine

[camboon]

Whether we think he is soft or not is irrelevant , personaly  I belive anyone who plays AfL has a level of courage.
What is relevant is The club sees Griff as a long way ahead of Vickery as a ruck / forward  , just a beter all round player . Took some  courageous marks last year to save us in few games l
 Vickery has had his chances and probably needs to be developed as  Ruckman imho.
All the experts all said we lost our structure once he went down, which just goes to show , whether he's captain couragous or  not he is very important to our side and is the best ruck / forward we have by miles., pity he has been missing easy shots this year.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Sometimes the most innocuous blows can give you concussion. Some people on this forum are just plain ignorant on what this is all about.

Softness has NOTHING to do with it.

If the guy was jumping up and down and writhing in agony because someone slapped him, that would be "soft".

Just get your medical facts correct before you all make ridiculous comments.

What medical facts are there Doc?
Don't use your position as a doctor to assume you know about every collision that happens the the footy field.
All I said it looked soft, and it does. Maybe we should do a poll as you need to feel more comfortable with people backing your opinion.   

"Concussion is a brain injury and is defined as a complex physiological process affecting the brain, induced by biomechanical forces. Concussion may be caused by either a direct or indirect blow to the head, face, neck or body causing an impulsive force transmitted to the head."
http://sma.org.au/resources-advice/concussion/

In other words you don't need a direct blow. You only need to have the force transmitted to the head which is what happened to Ben. Now big tone, I don't know what you do for a living, but I would hesitate to say you know a lot more than I do about your area of work. So don't pretend you know anything about neurology and neuroscience because you clearly do not. I am not using my position here to do anything but just state facts.
Concussion is still an area where we a increasing our knowledge. What we don't need is armchair experts saying players are "soft" when all they can see is a distorted view through a TV lens that does not give you a 360 degree view of the incident. Sorry but that is just bulldust.

Thanks for your definition of concussion. You don't need to be a doctor to google that but thanks for letting us all know again that you are a doctor. I'm sure your family are really proud of you but on here you are just another poster with an opinion.

When I asked for facts I meant regarding the slight bump that Griff took. Not a definition on what it was and how you can get it.

What I will say as an armchair expert, I'm allowed to think someone is soft if I see it that way. I don't need you because you have a degree telling me what I see and don't see. I have said I think Biff is soft basically from day one of seeing him and watching him again go off on the weekend from what looked like an innocuous bump didn't change my mind. He missed last week with something else, but after 1 week he is right to play again.
I don't just think he is a bit soft  because he has missed more games than he has played since being at the footy club but the way he plays. I feel he lacks desperation at the footy and at the man with the footy. When he hasn't got the footy and that's a lot, he is basically a liability to our side.
IMO he is a highlights package, he generally takes a nice mark a game and sometimes kicks a goal but he doesn't do much else to help the team. We have too many guys that are just not prepared to pay the price of what it takes to make us a great team again.
If I had my way I'd get rid of Biff and TV but if I had to keep one I'd keep TV. I see more in him than I see in Biff that would contribute to us being a better side. He is not as flashy but he hits the scoreboard and the last time I checked that is the name of the game.
Anyway I hope Griff is recovering well but I also hope he misses this week so we can see McBean.

You can tell SFA from the television set bt.  How many games have you gone to this year if you don't mind me asking?  Unless you have been going you have no idea how hard any of our players work off the ball.  If you saw how hard Tyrone worked against Geelong you would not be wanting him back in the team at all. Griff kills him for work rate and one of the biggest problems with our side (and there are many) is that they just don't work hard enough.  I believe this is one of McBeans biggest issues. However, I agree I'd rather he played this week just for the change.

One thing we both agree on though is that both Griff and Tyrone will be upgraded with Reece McKenzie, at least as a forward.  Would love them to play both Reece and McBean this week.

[Yeahright]

I agree. Throw Reece in the deep end and see how he goes. Won't be worse than Astbury.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Griff >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Vickery.


That is all.

[big tone]

Sometimes the most innocuous blows can give you concussion. Some people on this forum are just plain ignorant on what this is all about.

Softness has NOTHING to do with it.

If the guy was jumping up and down and writhing in agony because someone slapped him, that would be "soft".

Just get your medical facts correct before you all make ridiculous comments.

What medical facts are there Doc?
Don't use your position as a doctor to assume you know about every collision that happens the the footy field.
All I said it looked soft, and it does. Maybe we should do a poll as you need to feel more comfortable with people backing your opinion.   

"Concussion is a brain injury and is defined as a complex physiological process affecting the brain, induced by biomechanical forces. Concussion may be caused by either a direct or indirect blow to the head, face, neck or body causing an impulsive force transmitted to the head."
http://sma.org.au/resources-advice/concussion/

In other words you don't need a direct blow. You only need to have the force transmitted to the head which is what happened to Ben. Now big tone, I don't know what you do for a living, but I would hesitate to say you know a lot more than I do about your area of work. So don't pretend you know anything about neurology and neuroscience because you clearly do not. I am not using my position here to do anything but just state facts.
Concussion is still an area where we a increasing our knowledge. What we don't need is armchair experts saying players are "soft" when all they can see is a distorted view through a TV lens that does not give you a 360 degree view of the incident. Sorry but that is just bulldust.

Thanks for your definition of concussion. You don't need to be a doctor to google that but thanks for letting us all know again that you are a doctor. I'm sure your family are really proud of you but on here you are just another poster with an opinion.

When I asked for facts I meant regarding the slight bump that Griff took. Not a definition on what it was and how you can get it.

What I will say as an armchair expert, I'm allowed to think someone is soft if I see it that way. I don't need you because you have a degree telling me what I see and don't see. I have said I think Biff is soft basically from day one of seeing him and watching him again go off on the weekend from what looked like an innocuous bump didn't change my mind. He missed last week with something else, but after 1 week he is right to play again.
I don't just think he is a bit soft  because he has missed more games than he has played since being at the footy club but the way he plays. I feel he lacks desperation at the footy and at the man with the footy. When he hasn't got the footy and that's a lot, he is basically a liability to our side.
IMO he is a highlights package, he generally takes a nice mark a game and sometimes kicks a goal but he doesn't do much else to help the team. We have too many guys that are just not prepared to pay the price of what it takes to make us a great team again.
If I had my way I'd get rid of Biff and TV but if I had to keep one I'd keep TV. I see more in him than I see in Biff that would contribute to us being a better side. He is not as flashy but he hits the scoreboard and the last time I checked that is the name of the game.
Anyway I hope Griff is recovering well but I also hope he misses this week so we can see McBean.

You can tell SFA from the television set bt.  How many games have you gone to this year if you don't mind me asking?  Unless you have been going you have no idea how hard any of our players work off the ball.  If you saw how hard Tyrone worked against Geelong you would not be wanting him back in the team at all. Griff kills him for work rate and one of the biggest problems with our side (and there are many) is that they just don't work hard enough.  I believe this is one of McBeans biggest issues. However, I agree I'd rather he played this week just for the change.

One thing we both agree on though is that both Griff and Tyrone will be upgraded with Reece McKenzie, at least as a forward.  Would love them to play both Reece and McBean this week.

I go every Melbourne game and usually do a couple of interstate trips, mostly to Perth or Adeliade. With a wife that works at the AFL level 2 on the wing is a pretty good vantage point to watch footy. Sometimes behind the glass by half time the way we go mostly these days. 
I do watch a lot of footy and not just the Tigers, I don't rely on stats to form an opinion and I recon I can see something that others may not.
From day one, and WP can attest to this I haven't like the way Ellis plays, he gets heaps of footy but just isn't IMO a player that will take a club to where it wants to go.. I feel that way about Griff and even Astbury too.
But I do like what I see of Dea, he has improved his kicking and decision making, just like Rance did, is a terrific mark and spoil, is desperate and is as hard as a cats head. Some don't like Grimes but I think he is a real player and love the way Vlastuin goes about it. I love that Jack doesn't carry on like a twobob watch anymore when he kicks a goal and I think Morris is definitely in our best 22 as a lockdown small backman. Since he has been at the club not many small forwards have gotten a hold of us. We all know he isn't skillful, he doesn't get much footy but if he played on Thomas last week he doesn't kick 5 goals.
I see something in George in the twos and think McBean is a natural lead, mark forward. I'd be interested to know how many games of two's footy you have seen to say McBean plays small. Sure he is good at ground level but he is still a very good marking forward. He is definitely not a big pack mark but neither is your man Griff. Even Dunstall wasn't a big pack mark.
I was massive on us taking Jeff Gartlett about the middle of last year even before Carlton decided to get rid of him.
Watching Corey Ellis and Nathan Drummond the other day I'm not afraid to say i didn't see anything that got me excited about how they may turn out, but I didn't see anything I thought that showed they wouldn't.
I'm not sure what I see is the same as everyone else but it's what I see. Only time proves us right or wrong on these opinions but without sounding to cocky I'd back myself in most times when it comes to footy. 

[Zlatan]

oh dear oh dear. it is funny.

it really is swings and roundabouts on sites. they win and all is rosy they lose and all is doom and gloom. the feel good crowd are out in force and it is funny.

yes griffiths had a good game tonight as did 99% of his team mates good on him. lets talk up newman lets talk up houli morris batchelor grigg  etc etc .
people  if he couldnt get a kick tonight he never would. now lets see what happens when there is some real competition.

in fairness to him he had a decent game you cant ask much else in  the circumstances but ffs why hang your hat on it.
 
yes in the past  even in a big win we would get little out of him so its good he made a good contribution its a positive now he needs to produce against a good opponent and consistently.
mcguire was their best defender on the park with a first gamer and another 20 21 yr old kid ffs if ben didnt play well tonight he would never play well.
so much for perspective eh.

the difference is:

griffiths is 23 which is not old for a 200cm player. bachelor is a bit of a plodder, but at 23 there is some room for improvement?

Newman and Grigg are in the latter part of the football life hence there is little to no room for improvement. Thats the upsetting bit

[the claw]

Sometimes the most innocuous blows can give you concussion. Some people on this forum are just plain ignorant on what this is all about.

Softness has NOTHING to do with it.

If the guy was jumping up and down and writhing in agony because someone slapped him, that would be "soft".

Just get your medical facts correct before you all make ridiculous comments.

What medical facts are there Doc?
Don't use your position as a doctor to assume you know about every collision that happens the the footy field.
All I said it looked soft, and it does. Maybe we should do a poll as you need to feel more comfortable with people backing your opinion.   

"Concussion is a brain injury and is defined as a complex physiological process affecting the brain, induced by biomechanical forces. Concussion may be caused by either a direct or indirect blow to the head, face, neck or body causing an impulsive force transmitted to the head."
http://sma.org.au/resources-advice/concussion/

In other words you don't need a direct blow. You only need to have the force transmitted to the head which is what happened to Ben. Now big tone, I don't know what you do for a living, but I would hesitate to say you know a lot more than I do about your area of work. So don't pretend you know anything about neurology and neuroscience because you clearly do not. I am not using my position here to do anything but just state facts.
Concussion is still an area where we a increasing our knowledge. What we don't need is armchair experts saying players are "soft" when all they can see is a distorted view through a TV lens that does not give you a 360 degree view of the incident. Sorry but that is just bulldust.

Thanks for your definition of concussion. You don't need to be a doctor to google that but thanks for letting us all know again that you are a doctor. I'm sure your family are really proud of you but on here you are just another poster with an opinion.

When I asked for facts I meant regarding the slight bump that Griff took. Not a definition on what it was and how you can get it.

What I will say as an armchair expert, I'm allowed to think someone is soft if I see it that way. I don't need you because you have a degree telling me what I see and don't see. I have said I think Biff is soft basically from day one of seeing him and watching him again go off on the weekend from what looked like an innocuous bump didn't change my mind. He missed last week with something else, but after 1 week he is right to play again.
I don't just think he is a bit soft  because he has missed more games than he has played since being at the footy club but the way he plays. I feel he lacks desperation at the footy and at the man with the footy. When he hasn't got the footy and that's a lot, he is basically a liability to our side.
IMO he is a highlights package, he generally takes a nice mark a game and sometimes kicks a goal but he doesn't do much else to help the team. We have too many guys that are just not prepared to pay the price of what it takes to make us a great team again.
If I had my way I'd get rid of Biff and TV but if I had to keep one I'd keep TV. I see more in him than I see in Biff that would contribute to us being a better side. He is not as flashy but he hits the scoreboard and the last time I checked that is the name of the game.
Anyway I hope Griff is recovering well but I also hope he misses this week so we can see McBean.

You can tell SFA from the television set bt.  How many games have you gone to this year if you don't mind me asking?  Unless you have been going you have no idea how hard any of our players work off the ball.  If you saw how hard Tyrone worked against Geelong you would not be wanting him back in the team at all. Griff kills him for work rate and one of the biggest problems with our side (and there are many) is that they just don't work hard enough.  I believe this is one of McBeans biggest issues. However, I agree I'd rather he played this week just for the change.

One thing we both agree on though is that both Griff and Tyrone will be upgraded with Reece McKenzie, at least as a forward.  Would love them to play both Reece and McBean this week.

I go every Melbourne game and usually do a couple of interstate trips, mostly to Perth or Adeliade. With a wife that works at the AFL level 2 on the wing is a pretty good vantage point to watch footy. Sometimes behind the glass by half time the way we go mostly these days. 
I do watch a lot of footy and not just the Tigers, I don't rely on stats to form an opinion and I recon I can see something that others may not.
From day one, and WP can attest to this I haven't like the way Ellis plays, he gets heaps of footy but just isn't IMO a player that will take a club to where it wants to go.. I feel that way about Griff and even Astbury too.
But I do like what I see of Dea, he has improved his kicking and decision making, just like Rance did, is a terrific mark and spoil, is desperate and is as hard as a cats head. Some don't like Grimes but I think he is a real player and love the way Vlastuin goes about it. I love that Jack doesn't carry on like a twobob watch anymore when he kicks a goal and I think Morris is definitely in our best 22 as a lockdown small backman. Since he has been at the club not many small forwards have gotten a hold of us. We all know he isn't skillful, he doesn't get much footy but if he played on Thomas last week he doesn't kick 5 goals.
I see something in George in the twos and think McBean is a natural lead, mark forward. I'd be interested to know how many games of two's footy you have seen to say McBean plays small. Sure he is good at ground level but he is still a very good marking forward. He is definitely not a big pack mark but neither is your man Griff. Even Dunstall wasn't a big pack mark.
I was massive on us taking Jeff Gartlett about the middle of last year even before Carlton decided to get rid of him.
Watching Corey Ellis and Nathan Drummond the other day I'm not afraid to say i didn't see anything that got me excited about how they may turn out, but I didn't see anything I thought that showed they wouldn't.
I'm not sure what I see is the same as everyone else but it's what I see. Only time proves us right or wrong on these opinions but without sounding to cocky I'd back myself in most times when it comes to footy. 

WOWEE talk about tickets on oneself. The great guru who sees all, the guru who backs in the softest of the soft in Vickery but cant see it. the bloke who has  one standard for players he likes and a differing one for others.   Unbelievable the dribble some sprout. Why are so many people so full of themselves.