Australian Politics thread [merged]

[Tigeritis™©®]

doesnt matter anyway eventually there'll be an election and the Australian public are waiting with baseball bats to deal with the ALP for there complete dishonesty. Every dog has its day and Labor is having it now. Enjoy whilst you can because after the next election you wont be seeing a Labor Government here for the next 10 to 15 years atleast.

Most of the people I know have always supported Labor. I was indoctrinated all my life from my shopsteward father. I came to understand that my father supported a different labor in a different time. He abandoned the party he loved when Keating became PM. I too came to my senses when I started working and after 15years a union card member I understood that labor are full of crap.
And now all those people I thought would NEVER abandon labor have told me theyll never vote labor again.

I think the party is finished.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Before I give my views on the various topics as promised (sorry it's taken so long - been a chaotic week & a bit) I need to make a couple of points that should give some clarity as to my views.

Firstly, one of the very simple philosophies I have is that in life is no-one deserves a free ride in that we all have to pay our way in life.

I was bought up on this by Ma Powell who was the hardest working person I have ever known. She was a woman who was widowed young and had to raise a 2 children under the age of 10. She gave up running our family business when my Father passed away because she believed her most important role she had was looking after her kids not being away from us. And I will always be eternally grateful that she made that choice.    

I’ve mentioned this before and that is I was bought up to believe that if you cannot afford something; anything then you go without it. Some call it hard I call it reality

Again this lesson was something that Ma Powell taught us and I learnt what it meant very early on when all my friends were getting new clothes every week and we were wearing “hand me downs”.

I have also said previously that I reckon we are turning into a nation of whingers & sooks with so many people believing that they are owed something or entitled to handouts from governments.  

If you refer to this thread : http://oneeyed-richmond.com/forum/index.php?topic=13062.msg234889#msg234889

You will see I said this:

" “Entitled to"   perhaps that is in part what's wrong with us these days, we think life (read the govt) "owes" us something maybe there are far too many handouts being given out”

I sometimes wonder what did families do before family allowances, baby bonuses etc? From what I can gather they survived. My parents certainly did and my Mother certainly did while raising 2 kids on a widows pension (less than $500  a fortnight) and a very small allowance for us kids coupled with an incredibly tiny income she was allowed to earn (She cleaned houses for $25 a house) to keep her pension. It certainly wasn’t the handouts of today but we survived went without a helluva lot (no colour TV until late 1980 and then it was just a portable one because it was all we could afford) though in all honesty but I wouldn’t change a thing because it is part of who I am today.

Which brings me back to topic of the carbon tax and all its appendages.  

I don’t expect people to agree with me but I was asked for my views and I am happy to oblige

Carbon Tax: As person who supported an ETS it would be somewhat hypocritical of me to oppose a price on carbon. However I can understand why people are against it. Although the constant “flip flopping” of the reason’s why people are against I find myself having a chuckle about (and I am not talking about people here). There have been some strange conversations around the coffee machine at work I can tell you. Personally I have no problems with it being introduced as long as those it is supposedly targeting cop their full whack. As said straight up as a person who fully supported an ETS I would be a complete hypocrite to say no to a price on carbon. I still believe to this day Rudd’s failure on the ETS was what cost him his job

The compensation package: the compensation package has no effect on me as I earn too much and we don’t have kids. My biggest gripe with it is my serial gripe regarding these things and that is doesn’t do enough for pensioners. While every attempt has been made to soften the burden for families by yet again increasing what they believe they are “entitled” to I cannot say the same thing for pensioners. For people who have worked all their lives, paid their way by paying their taxes I reckon we treat our pensioners abysmally and I direct that all govts of all political orientation.

The best part of the compensation package is the significant lifting of the tax-free threshold. That is what I view as a major tax reform. It’s about time it happened and I applaud this govt for having the courage to do it as it is long overdue. Disappointing it took the introduction of a new tax for to happen but a positive step in tax reform none the less. A massive tick for this part of the compo package from me.

TBBH if people are smart they can be better off under this scheme. How I hear you ask? By attempting something really novel … it’s called by living within their means  . And before people start saying to me “it’s easy for you’ you don’t have kids” got to say for me that’s a cop out. We might not have kids but we still eat, we still use electricity, we still use gas, drive cars, we have a mortgage to pay… we have to deal with all the things other families do we just make sure we do it all within our means. We want something we save for it…. It aint that hard

How it effects me and my family? As I said earlier because of what we earn we are likely to be worse off. So be it I just see it as another thing that I have to pay for. Another case of me paying my way in life.

Climate change in general? I believe in climate change. I believe it is real. The scientific evidence is there and from everything I’ve been able to research I’ve come to the conclusion it is real and something needs to be done not for me but for the future. I find it amusing that people say we shouldn’t have a price on carbon because other countries who emit more pollutants than Australia aren’t doing anything, so therefore we shouldn’t do anything in other words we should follow their path.

If we want to use that logic perhaps we should not have apologised to the “stolen Generation” because China wont recognise Tibet? Maybe we should follow the USA lead and start drilling in Kakadu because the USA is drilling for oil in the Alaskan wilderness? This isn’t about what others are doing it is about what we need to do for our future, AUstralia's future.  

The govt? I have to say I find it hilarious this whole debate about the current Fed govt we have. This constant complaint that people didn’t vote for what we have. Got a newsflash for everyone, we actually did! We as voters did not give one party a clear majority this means under our constitution we have what we actually voted for. We don’t have to like it but it is the way our democracy works. Secondly, I find it staggering that people seem shocked that the Labor Party did deals with people to form govt. Newsflash - Tony Abbott and his party offered deals as well but for reason that only the independents can explain they took the Gillard deal over Abbott’s. As I've said before are people that naive to think that if Lib/Nats were in govt they wouldn't have to do deals with the Greens, independents as well?

Do I think they are doing a good job? On somethings I would say YEP on other things I reckon NOPE but that is the nature of being in minority govt. Unlike so many I applaud them for introducing means testing people who receive govt payments - should happened years ago, for far too long people have ripped the system off which has meant people who truly need assistance have received less. A big NOPE is the this ad campaign for the this tax - hate seeing govts (again doesnt matter which party - Howard did it with work choices) waste money on pointless advertising

The PM? Yep she lied about the carbon tax but she isn’t the first pollie to lie and she wont be the last (Howard anyone).  Even honest Abbott has lied and broken election promises and he even admits it:

"Well, Laurie, when I made that statement, in the election campaign, I had not the slightest inkling that there would ever be any intention to change this. But obviously when circumstances change, governments do change their opinions, and that is actually the responsible course of action."

http://sgp1.paddington.ninemsn.com.au/sunday/political_transcripts/article_1761.asp?s=1

So it’s OK for others to break an election promises but not the current PM? Can anyone explain to me the difference this time? A broken promise is a broken promise no matter which side of politics break the promise


The oppositions response to it? Has there actually been one?   Apart from their normal negativity and their promise that they will remove the tax if they get elected and that they will plant some more trees they haven’t offered much at all.

The burning question for me is seeing they have said (promised) they are going to turf the tax and everything else that the govt brings with it what are they going to do about the extra benefits that people are going to receive and more importantly the changes to the tax free threshold limit? Are they going to keep their promise on that and take it all away from people?

And if they do are people going to be sooking about a govt taking away their entitlements?  

Bottom line re the Carbon Tax is I will most likely worse off.

But as I said I was bought up to believe that we all must pay our way, work hard, pay taxes and this is just something else I have to pay

Thems the breaks

Ready for the whacks  

fair enough WP. Thanks for your responses. But I truly thought you'd be harder on the current government but I was wrong to think that you would whack one of your own.

[mightytiges]

Now I don't wish this on anyone but it only takes one of the Labor Party to kick the bucket and we are off to an early election.
I bet Oakeshott and Windsor have already done refresher CPR courses and now carry their own personal defibrillator units.  

Would a resignation also force us to an early election??

A death or resignation in the Reps would force a by-election in that seat. If that causes a change in numbers on the floor of the parliament then either side will be asked to again try and form a working majority via some coalition of parties and independents. If no majority can be formed then the Governor-General will call an election. Remember though the speaker is a Labor candidate so Labor would try to get one of the LNP MPs or even Bob Katter or the independent WA National to become speaker so as to maintain a working majority.

Of course on the issue of carbon pricing there's always the possibility of Turnbull crossing the floor to support a ETS. He's contradicted Abbott's stance regularly. All hypotheticals of course unlike a Lib senator on a shoplifting spree  . Lucky for Abbott she's only a senator who if convicted can be automatically replaced with another Liberal under the post-1975 dismissal rule change. If she had been a MP it would've been bigger news.

In Victoria when Bracks won as a minority government in 1999 everyone said it wouldn't last 3-6 months and we were only one by-election away from it all falling over. 3 years later he won the next election in a landslide. Like footy, two years is a very long time in politics. Unlike now, in 2013 it'll be Abbott advocating change to a system already in place for a year whereas the Government will be supporting the 'status quo'. The politics has a long long way to go before it is played out.

[mightytiges]

My position is this; I don't like ANY tax. I didn't want the GST. I don't want a TAX on carbon dioxide! I think it's crap and just an excuse for more money. 

I don't think anyone actually likes taxes but we have to have them

Serious question if they got rid various taxes would you be prepared to give up (or give back) all the govt benefits/allowances that you (I am assuming you have kids) currently get?

Taxes go, benefits go, first home buyers grants go

Prepared to give all those things up?

I understand taxes WP I just dont like new taxes that are based around deception.

So you won't be voting for any major party at the next election? The Libs have their "direct action" tax on each and every household.

[1965]

So you won't be voting for any major party at the next election? The Libs have their "direct action" tax on each and every household.

Which is designed to be dropped at little cost straight after the election.

A vote for the Libs is not a vote for any sort of action on climate change.

[tiga]

Now I don't wish this on anyone but it only takes one of the Labor Party to kick the bucket and we are off to an early election.
I bet Oakeshott and Windsor have already done refresher CPR courses and now carry their own personal defibrillator units.  

Would a resignation also force us to an early election??

A death or resignation in the Reps would force a by-election in that seat. If that causes a change in numbers on the floor of the parliament then either side will be asked to again try and form a working majority via some coalition of parties and independents. If no majority can be formed then the Governor-General will call an election. Remember though the speaker is a Labor candidate so Labor would try to get one of the LNP MPs or even Bob Katter or the independent WA National to become speaker so as to maintain a working majority.

Thanks for clearing that up MT. So I guess it all depends on who dies or resigns. But going by the majorities opinion, carbon tax aside, the Labor government is highly unpopular at this moment in time. 

[tiga]

Labor is tied to Gillard as the Independents have said they will cross the floor if there is another leadership change within the life of this parliment. FACT.

Libs are way in front of Labor in the polls because of the scare campaign and lies being told by Abbott. FACT

Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

65, do you know what the word "fact" means?     

Your comments are nothing more than "opinion" and that is a FACT! Nobody has to listen to what Abbott says to form the current "opinion" that the Government is a total shambles.
NBN, Asylum Seekers (Malaysian Solution  ), Pink Bats.... The list goes on and on.   

[Tigeritis™©®]

My position is this; I don't like ANY tax. I didn't want the GST. I don't want a TAX on carbon dioxide! I think it's crap and just an excuse for more money. 

I don't think anyone actually likes taxes but we have to have them

Serious question if they got rid various taxes would you be prepared to give up (or give back) all the govt benefits/allowances that you (I am assuming you have kids) currently get?

Taxes go, benefits go, first home buyers grants go

Prepared to give all those things up?

I understand taxes WP I just dont like new taxes that are based around deception.

So you won't be voting for any major party at the next election? The Libs have their "direct action" tax on each and every household.

I understand what tax is for. I just don't like new taxes especially when they're base on lies.
I've paid tax all my working life. I've never been out of a job and I still pay taxes.

I've voted Labor most of my working life. But I'll NEVER vote for them
EVER again. FACT.

[Tigeritis™©®]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

[1965]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

That would be "Sybil" not "Cybill".

Typical of a right wing Lib, can't get your facts right.

 

[WilliamPowell]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

Was this before or after Tony was in favour of an emissions trading scheme or when he suggested "a nice simple tax" on carbon was the way to go....

They all flip flop Tigra.... constantly ...every single one of them

And BTW I will never ever vote Liberal while Tony Abbot is the leader of the Liberal party, such is my disdain and and lack of respect for the man...

[Tigeritis™©®]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

That would be "Sybil" not "Cybill".

Typical of a right wing Lib, can't get your facts right.

 

how is getting the spelling wrong on a name of a movie relate to facts.
Or are you offended I used your boyfriends name?

[1965]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

That would be "Sybil" not "Cybill".

Typical of a right wing Lib, can't get your facts right.

 

how is getting the spelling wrong on a name of a movie relate to facts.
Or are you offended I used your boyfriends name?

Oh dear we are getting desperate, resorting to abuse and such hurtful abuse as well.

 

[Tigeritis™©®]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

That would be "Sybil" not "Cybill".

Typical of a right wing Lib, can't get your facts right.

 

how is getting the spelling wrong on a name of a movie relate to facts.
Or are you offended I used your boyfriends name?

Oh dear we are getting desperate, resorting to abuse and such hurtful abuse as well.

 

I think criticising the spelling of cybil/Sybil was the most childish thing I've read on this thread. So I retaliated. Sorry if I offended you.

[1965]

To ALL Julia lovers: (MT, WP, 65) etc.

It's seems one of the Julias wanted to adopt the Coalition plan without a "carbon tax or an ETS".

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-07-25/tony-abbott-emissions-trading-scheme-report/2808914

... That is until she went to bed with the greens. And now her left wing socialist or Communist personality seems to be what we are seeing on a regular basis. Until she developes another personality.
She should change her name to Cybill.

That would be "Sybil" not "Cybill".

Typical of a right wing Lib, can't get your facts right.

 

how is getting the spelling wrong on a name of a movie relate to facts.
Or are you offended I used your boyfriends name?

Oh dear we are getting desperate, resorting to abuse and such hurtful abuse as well.

 

I think criticising the spelling of cybil/Sybil was the most childish thing I've read on this thread. So I retaliated. Sorry if I offended you.

All good.

Just remember all politicans are political bastards at the best of times.

I just don't like the scare campaign being waged by Abbott.

Most of all hate the fact that so many are getting sucked in and so many are clearly just trying to look after their own interests.

How about thinking of the grandchildren and what sort of world we might be leaving them.

(end of tree-hugging hippy rant)