9th...NO WAY

[WilliamPowell]

Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this  . This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick  . Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.

Who said it would be over achieving? Can't it just be solid improvement?

And why this fixation with finishing 9th, what happens if we finish 10th, 11th is that OK? Which would be the best ladder position to end up at?

Are you suggestion that we should be aiming "higher" in how low we finish; say 13th or lower would - that would snag us a top 15 pick wouldn't it? Is that what we should be after?

You need to take my approach, sit back, see what happens & just enjoy life

We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.

Absolutely, we still have a long way to go. That's why people speaking (perhaps even thinking) finals is frought with danger.  

But we shouldn't down play the positives: it seems we are on our way and we need to keep going and keep aiming to improve.

[Oiafi]

We win as many games as the team possibly can. We win the close ones and we learn from the losses. If that means 9th then so be it.

(IMHO)

[Penelope]

As Hardwick has said you put the processes in place and the results will look after themselves. The better you perform these processes, the better the results will be.

So, how do we stop the players from improving to avoid these positive results?

Should Hardwick be condemned for the improvement he has gained out players like Rance, King, and Nahas, because if this trend continues we will finish somewhere around 12-9?

I have trouble understanding how people want the club to mimic the Packistan cricket team at the best of times, but wanting the club to stifle the development and improvement we are currently seeing is incomprehensible.

For what? To gain 5-6 places in the draft pecking order? To avoid the illogical stigma of finishing 9th?

I'm assuming those that don't want us to win many more games for the year don't agree with Hardwicks assessment about the confidence these players are starting to gain in themselves, their team mates and the processes put in place by the coaching staff from actually winning games.?

Perhaps we should just merge with Melbourne and be done with it?

[RollsRoyce]

-sigh-not THIS argument again ??? Can't some of you people just enjoy the fact that we're winning and improving in quantum leaps and bounds?
WA Tiger, it's not fair to say we have no talent pushing through in the reserves.
Browne and Webberley in particular are absolutely banging on the door. Then there are the likes of Post,Astbury,O'Reilly,Contin and Derickx. And Mighty Tigers, you're a bit like someone standing on the edge of a swimming pool trying to lower yourself into the water one toe at a time. Just take the plunge.

[Infamy]

Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.

Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this  . This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick  . Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.

We've been very fortunate this year with few key injuries apart from Moore so our lack of depth hasn't been exposed against the low-to-middle of the road sides.
Our spine is only settled at FF with Jack. We are hoping Griffs and Astbury in time will fill two of them but nothing is certain yet and then we've got to find a big-body full back. The ruck possie is certain either.
Our side has too many smalls who will get pushed aside by bigger bodied opponents in finals footy if we think the current group as is is complete enough to move forward with.  Also we still lack class across all lines as our side falls away quickly after the top half-dozen or so players. The class is found earlier on in the draft. No coincidence our best players are high draft picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Martin (3) & Jack (13).

We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.

How long does it last for? I swear every year it's always "just one more year of good picks". Geelong & Collingwood certainly never stayed down to collect as many good picks as we did. Collingwood only tanked for one year, Geelong never did but got some father sons to help. In Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Jack and even Vickery, we have far more top echelon juniors to build our side around, just in those 5 players we have almost 30% of the entire starting 18.

You say Lids, Cotchin, Martin & Jack are our best players, well Jack at 13 isn't too far away from the pick we will get this year. You have omitted Foley who was a rookie pick, even Nahas this year who if he keeps up his form was a rookie pick, look where we got players like Astbury & Bachelor who look like they will be 10 year players for us.

Get over the idea that we need more early picks, we have more than most teams ever have.

FB: Grimes Rance (Newman/Moore)
HB: Bachelor Astbury Houli
C: Deledio Martin Conca
HF: Edwards Griffiths Grigg
FF: (King) Riewoldt (Nahas)
Ru: Vickery Cotchin (Foley)

There is the 14 players I listed before with a few more senior players added in in brackets. We already have our side to develop, we just need more depth and natural turnover of the list. At this stage having all these kids play together and develop is the most important thing, not more draft picks. We may end up with players wanting to leave if we keep losing and also our players will have reduced trade value.

[JVT]

Forget this thread, these young cubs are finals bound! 

[Stripes]

Much too early to be taking finals or tanking for mine. I'm just enjoying the excitment of the journey at the moment and the fact we are winning off the back of our young talent. If we were winning these games with players such as Tuck, Miller and Moore pulling us across the line - then I would be agreeing with you WA and MT. But we are not. In fact none of our older players are having any significant impact at all in comparison to our youth.

One of the largest reasons we are starting to win games is through consistency, confidence and belief. If we play around with this just to ensure we finish further down the ladder then we may never get the players we have back on the tracks again much like what happened to any talent we have had int he past.

Consistency - We are finally starting to gain a consistent structure and line up. Players are learning how to play with each other and learn each others strengths, weaknesses and predicatable actions. A stable linup comes when coaches begin to see individual improvement which has obviously occured. While there will always be minor changes, having a consistent core of players shows that the coaches believe in the players they have and feel they finally have the players to begin to climb.

Confidence - This is confidence in themselves after finally developing their personal games through good coaching and education, confidence in each other through playing consistently with each other and knowing what each other is likely to do and confidence with the game plan where there is less indecision and more understanding of their role and the role of their team mates in any situation.

Belief - working towards a goal. Knowing that if the team stays together and works for each other they can beat anyone. Belief in each other and belief that the club is building towards inevitable success.

I think on the back of all this it would be flawed logic to try and derail our climb up the ladder. It would negatively effect out current players that are building towards something together and who any future young draftee would learn from and compliment.

Stripes

[Stripes]

Sorry just to add to above....

With the new rules  - 1) GWS trading 16 years & 2) Free Trading - we need currency. We can achieve the same results by trading away quality depth players for the 16 year stars plus later filling holes with Free Trading where we gain 25+ year old proven stars as we would finishing down the bottom come draft time. In fact we may even do better but if we have no players the GWS wish to trade for then we are missing out on a golden opportunity.

In addition you mentioned MT that we have too may small players that are pushed under the ball. Well I humbly disagree  I think that the ne sub rule has opened up the game for these smaller bodied quicker types. I think smaller players with pace and endurance are much more important in the second half of games this year and is one of the main reasons we have won the last three games. Of course you need players to win the ball or bring it to ground for these types but players of the ilk of Nahas, King and Edwards are relishing the new freedom they have gained.

[cub]

At the moment it's just fun going to the footy at last.

[gerkin greg]

Agonising over draft picks and where outside the finals it is best to finish is what supporters of shˇt clubs do 

[WA Tiger]

Yes true WP and there is a reason I believe so strongly about not finishing 9th even though we are moving up the ladder. I actually believe our current team is one more draft away from securing better than average players through next years draft and trade period. I would hate to think that we are getting ahead of ourselves...yet again. While I love winning and really don't want to lose I would take the loses for the sake of one more draft and better picks. We really have no depth, we have no players coming through in the seconds, that have shown they will be anything. We have a week backline and I feel that with one more decent draft we could top up the positions where we are lacking depth.

Bingo! Although WAT I think we're outnumbered on this  . This is the last of years you want to finish 9th with only pick 18 on offer. That's effectively missing out on a normal first round pick  . Wait till next year and go for your life up the ladder as even 9th place would still get us a top 10 pick plus we'll have our end of first round compo pick available. As you said WAT overachieving this year would be getting ahead of ourselves and hurt us in becoming genuine premiership challengers in the upcoming years.

We've been very fortunate this year with few key injuries apart from Moore so our lack of depth hasn't been exposed against the low-to-middle of the road sides.
Our spine is only settled at FF with Jack. We are hoping Griffs and Astbury in time will fill two of them but nothing is certain yet and then we've got to find a big-body full back. The ruck possie is certain either.
Our side has too many smalls who will get pushed aside by bigger bodied opponents in finals footy if we think the current group as is is complete enough to move forward with.  Also we still lack class across all lines as our side falls away quickly after the top half-dozen or so players. The class is found earlier on in the draft. No coincidence our best players are high draft picks - Lids (1), Cotch (2), Martin (3) & Jack (13).

We may have won 3 in a row but we are still a long way away. Judging us by wins/losses is still misleading.

Thats ok MT I am used to being outnumbered.. ..Your post is exactly what I am saying in a nutshell.

[Eat_em_Alive]

At the moment it's just fun going to the footy at last.

Ill 2nd that 
And leave the debating to the more experienced

[WA Tiger]

There are some really good points within the posts regarding this thread.

I still feel, the bottom line, we are one more draft away from being in a position to select the players that will carry us into a GF and finishing 9th could be the difference between great and average players. 1-3 Really god draft picked players, KPP, backmen, would give us that little bit more depth. I don't think players like Post, Hicks and a few others mentioned in our the seconds will amount to much and they are certainly not there at the moment. Should we be affected by a few injuries we are in trouble...But hey I hope they all work out.

[Smokey]

We win as many games as the team possibly can. We win the close ones and we learn from the losses. If that means 9th then so be it.

(IMHO)

Best opinion so far O.   

[Con65]

I think the time for "tanking" is well and truly over.

I agree with the majority - follow the process and the results will look after themselves.

Will we make the finals - i dont think so, but I hope so.

Have we improved this year - you betcha..we have improved out of sight.

As CUB said - it is fun going to the football this year.  Out of 7 games the tiges have been good value for money in 5 of them plus a quarter against the pies.  Only Hawks was a demoralising loss where we didnt win a quarter.  We led carlton until about the 18 min mark of the final quarter and led st kilda with 1.45 to play (about the 33 min mark) in the final quarter.  You gotta be happy with that.

Finishing 12th or 14th will still not get you a top 10 pick so who cares where we finish.
Just win games and enjoy the ride!!