Federal Budget

[mightytiges]

What I also found strange and somewhat disappointing was the lady whose family had the $130k income who said she wasn't going to work to increase their income because it would mean they would lose everything they are entitled to 

"Entitled to"  perhaps that is in part what's wrong with us these days, we think life (read the govt) "owes" us something maybe there are far too many handouts being handed out

Some deluded so-called adults these days. We're becoming a nation of spoilt whingers .

[10 FLAGS]

labor is finished, set top boxes will be the next big scandal. they should have just given $400 vouchers for pensioners to put towards buying a new digital ready tv.

[Francois Jackson]

What I also found strange and somewhat disappointing was the lady whose family had the $130k income who said she wasn't going to work to increase their income because it would mean they would lose everything they are entitled to 

"Entitled to"  perhaps that is in part what's wrong with us these days, we think life (read the govt) "owes" us something maybe there are far too many handouts being handed out

Some deluded so-called adults these days. We're becoming a nation of spoilt whingers .

Now i think you both. being WP and MT, have got it all wrong. Spoilt whingers MT. I think thats a big harsh.

We are the one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world and you know what we deserve every break we get.

There is a tax for everything and i mean everything, state and federal, disguised in what they term "charges". Its a joke so weather your middle, lower or higher everyone deserves a break.

Labour should just hang up their boots now, they are a disgrace. Set top boxes for analogue Tv's which are more expensive to run than a 32 inch LCD T.V, yet they crap on about their pathetic new carbon tax. What the hell are they thinking wasting $400.

You guys are blinded by your Labour loyalty much like my Dad.

[mightytiges]

This isn't a Labor/Liberal issue for mine and no I'm not being harsh daniel. I could argue the Government didn't go nowhere hard enough with cutting middle class welfare. I would abolish ALL middle class welfare which is why I wouldn't make a politician. We have inadequate and old infrastructure which the public also complains about  (Melbourne's last mainline suburban railway line was built in 1930 for example) yet we have taxpayer funded handouts to people on $150k+  . Seriously it's a joke! The only reason they got all these handouts in the first place and that's what they are handouts - family tax offets, baby bonuses, private health insurance rebates, no-kids spouse rebate etc... is because they were vote buying gimics as the mortgage belts are where most of the marginal seats are. Sorry but welfare for people on $150k who have over-extended themselves with a 650k mortgage and huge credit card debts is a rort. Welfare is not meant to be a subsidy for greedy stupidity. As usual as soon as a Government gives out undeserved handouts people suddenly think they are entitled to them and then when they are removed all the sooks come out.  

ps. if you want to argue we are over-governed and paying for too many pollies then that's a separate issue and I would agree with you daniel.

[Francois Jackson]

This isn't a Labor/Liberal issue for mine and no I'm not being harsh daniel. I could argue the Government didn't go nowhere hard enough with cutting middle class welfare. I would abolish ALL middle class welfare which is why I wouldn't make a politician. We have inadequate and old infrastructure which the public also complains about  (Melbourne's last mainline suburban railway line was built in 1930 for example) yet we have taxpayer funded handouts to people on $150k+  . Seriously it's a joke! The only reason they got all these handouts in the first place and that's what they are handouts - family tax offets, baby bonuses, private health insurance rebates, no-kids spouse rebate etc... is because they were vote buying gimics as the mortgage belts are where most of the marginal seats are. Sorry but welfare for people on $150k who have over-extended themselves with a 650k mortgage and huge credit card debts is a rort. Welfare is not meant to be a subsidy for greedy stupidity. As usual as soon as a Government gives out undeserved handouts people suddenly think they are entitled to them and then when they are removed all the sooks come out.  

ps. if you want to argue we are over-governed and paying for too many pollies then that's a separate issue and I would agree with you daniel.

Im sorry MT but you cant expect me to believe that there is no Labour loyalty involved in your opinion. So if it was Abbott you would agree would you?

I dont have an issue with cutting middle class in some areas i.e Family tax A & B, what i have an issue is that this country is so over governed its pathetic.

State laws, council laws, federal laws. etc etc we pay our taxes, or sorry charges as they like to put it so we get confused, so IMO people deserve some tax breaks and yes baby bonus.

Take baby Bonus as an example the cost now to have a child is over 5k and in some cases more as some pediatricians can charge what they like. So you tell me middle class should just suck it up and deal with it while someone on $149k gets the bonus. Rubbish!!

Maybe some people are upset cause they have over capatilised on their mortgaged and brought the undue financial stress on themselves, that i agree with, but to take the bonus away because someone earns 150k is a joke.

Before they want to start reducing breaks for all classes maybe they should look at their own waste i.e set top boxes.

Lets be serious here, no one in their right mind can honestly say that spending $400 vrs a new LCd was the brightest idea they have ever come up with.

[WilliamPowell]

Now i think you both. being WP and MT, have got it all wrong. Spoilt whingers MT. I think thats a big harsh.

daniel, it has nothing to do with loyalty to a political party it has to do ith what "welfare" payments were originally established for -v- what they are now.

This attitude that people have about being "entitled to" something is the issue for me.

I have never, ever agreed with handouts for the sake of handouts. Welfare should be for those who need it not given out as some sort of encouragement award which is what appears to happen now. Every govt is guilty of it and will continue to be guilty of it because as I have said it all about buying votes

Any family on $150k+ with a $650k motgage, massive self inflicted credit card debt should not be receiving handouts from the govt. End of story

I've seen people decide to have have a child simply because they wanted the baby bonus not because they wanted or could afford to have a child but simply because they thought it was their right to get that money. Sorry but I don't see that as being right especially for the child.

BTW best thing the Howard govt did was introduce the requirement of a persons employee benefits (the stuff company's pay FBT on) having to be included on a person payment summary (group cetrificate) as a way of means testing people who may have only been earning $100k but were receiving over $50-$100k in benefits and not paying tax. I didn't hear the outcry back then that I hearing today - newsflash it is exactly the same thing   

We (my "family" and we don't have kids but we are still a family) pay taxes (alot of them I night add) and I have to say I am sick ot death of paying taxes to pay for handouts to people who don't need them and shouldn't be getting them because they cannot manage their own finances.

I was bought up to believe that if you cannot afford something; anything then you go without it. Harsh? I don't think so I call it reality.   

[mightytiges]

I have to say I am sick ot death of paying taxes to pay for handouts to people who don't need them and shouldn't be getting them because they cannot manage their own finances.

I was bought up to believe that if you cannot afford something; anything then you go without it. Harsh? I don't think so I call it reality.   

Previous generations had to simply do without if they couldn't afford it. Life is about making choices and you especially have choice when you are earning $150k p.a. What makes these poor deluded diddums these days think they are so special they should get handouts no matter how much they stupidly over-extend themselves financially. All because they want a McMansion with a 650k mortgage to keep up with the Joneses  . Btw daniel if Abbott had the guts to cut or even better abolish middle class welfare (he doesn't though as he supports this crap) then I would congratulate him.

[Dubstep Dookie]

Can I play devils advocate and put out there, for a family starting out, perhaps earning 150k or thereabouts, would a home loan of 350-400k (for say an average outer suburban house or small middle suburban unit worth 450-500k), what would the loan repayments be? Maybe 2,500-3000 per month?

Id suspect it's a decent hit of any family income, and close to the proverbial 30% of income/mortgage stress factor.

Fact is, it's likely a family earning 80k who bought a house 10 years ago and gets a crap load of tax cuts don't need it as much as a family starting out. You kill that demographic...work it out for yourselves.

[Penelope]

with income of 150K you would be paying $54,538.68 per year on your mortgage. That leaves close to 100k before tax to live off.

If you cant do that you need rootin'.

you could further reduce payments to $48,750 per year by going interest only, if you were really struggling on just under 100k income to survive off

[Dubstep Dookie]

Its a standard after tax example , so at an average of 30% tax it's equivalent to 105k net income.

So that's typically mortgage stress for anyone starting out on an income that much, on a typical loan for a typical house.

Would you rather be in their shoes or your own?

And if we don't subsidies this demographic, what do you think might keep happening to your own standard of living? Wonder why it's already heading in the wrong direction?

[Penelope]

1k a week is easily livable off ...if you are prepared to forgo a few luxuries.

Id take a 650k mortgage and 150k income. (assuming a property value of at least $812500)

Unless they have borrowed against it for poo, they will have more equity in their home than that.

They have a roof over their head and earn enough so that them and their kids can be clothed and fed.

These are not the people welfare is intended for.

[Dubstep Dookie]

You could say that about anyone with a roof and clothes.

The middle class has always financed this country. It subsidizes the lower class, and finances the fat cats.

Enjoy the next 5-10 years, and society polarizes, roads crumble, and people wonder, where has all the money gone!

[Penelope]

interesting comment about the middle class.

Do you really believe that if these people do not get handouts the economy will deteriorate for 5- 10 years? ( that is what you mean?)

the best way the govt can subsidise middle class is to build infrastructure - roads, hospitals, schools , that creates jobs and ensures there is money moving about.

[Dubstep Dookie]

The government can't afford infrastructure, only population growth of the middle class.

It's locked into a cycle it can't get out of.

Melbourne alike most eastern seaboard cities is a city that needs to grow quickly to maintain the standard if living for all. Population growth and the construction industry has the highest flow on effect of income of any industy. No brainer.

No people who can afford housing ownership, they'll move elsewhere. Less in most job sectors, less in retail, less money to tax, less in your super...need I go on?!

Not that I like it, but that's the way it is.

[Francois Jackson]

Now i think you both. being WP and MT, have got it all wrong. Spoilt whingers MT. I think thats a big harsh.

daniel, it has nothing to do with loyalty to a political party it has to do ith what "welfare" payments were originally established for -v- what they are now.

This attitude that people have about being "entitled to" something is the issue for me.

I have never, ever agreed with handouts for the sake of handouts. Welfare should be for those who need it not given out as some sort of encouragement award which is what appears to happen now. Every govt is guilty of it and will continue to be guilty of it because as I have said it all about buying votes

Any family on $150k+ with a $650k motgage, massive self inflicted credit card debt should not be receiving handouts from the govt. End of story

I've seen people decide to have have a child simply because they wanted the baby bonus not because they wanted or could afford to have a child but simply because they thought it was their right to get that money. Sorry but I don't see that as being right especially for the child.

BTW best thing the Howard govt did was introduce the requirement of a persons employee benefits (the stuff company's pay FBT on) having to be included on a person payment summary (group cetrificate) as a way of means testing people who may have only been earning $100k but were receiving over $50-$100k in benefits and not paying tax. I didn't hear the outcry back then that I hearing today - newsflash it is exactly the same thing   

We (my "family" and we don't have kids but we are still a family) pay taxes (alot of them I night add) and I have to say I am sick ot death of paying taxes to pay for handouts to people who don't need them and shouldn't be getting them because they cannot manage their own finances.

I was bought up to believe that if you cannot afford something; anything then you go without it. Harsh? I don't think so I call it reality.   

your point is flawed. Just because you dont have kids put yourself in someone else's shoes who may have say 3 or 4, and on one income of 150k.
I bet you didn't hand back the $900 stimulus the government handed you? Of course not well you should because as you say you dont need handouts well last time i checked that was a pretty big handout to a lot of people that didnt need it.

Income of 150k net 100k and a 350k Loan and with the added cost of living(school fees etc) yet you think that family doesnt deserve a baby bonus. Give me a spell thats ridiculous but its okay to spend $400 for old people who most would be happier with a LCD tv.
I cant believe what im reading. The government should've given the pensioners a choice. Set top box($100) or JB voucher not this $400 blatant disregard for our money.

The only argument you seem to constantly bring up is these people with the big 650k mortgages who are now crying poor.

Again you are putting everyone in that small basket. I know a bloke who is about 40 ish who is on a descent wicket and is struggling badly living in Mernda or somewhere close to there.

He has 3 kids and his wife cannot work due to health but no according to some doesnt deserve a free kick here or there