Tigers vs Suns thread - Who's Going to Cairns??

[Jackstar is back again]

The suggestion that we need to bolster the Football department is an admission that our coaching panel is not up to it.

How much money do the Roos have in their football dept? I bet it's less then ours.

Kangas were senstaional tonight, irrelevant of the result ( yes they won )
More importantly, they had a CRACK !!!

[Jackstar is back again]

Kangas are a poor example, get smashed by top teams and will continue to finish mid range cause they can't afford not to.

They have as bright a future as the Thinking Man's Orange Tim Fleming.

at least they have a crack,
Pity our mob didnt

[The Big Richo]

What about the week before?

[WilliamPowell]

You are gagging if you think selling games wasn't the right thing to do.

Were we ever going to win the Flag this year?

Were we ever going to do any more than maybe scrap into 8th?

Selling the games has kicked a million dollars into the kitty, not selling them probably means we are a million+ short as we would've lost money on the 2 games.

Simple fact is we need more cash to have the resources to compete with the Collingwoods of the comp.

Not many better ways to make easy cash than by selling a game like that, it is not the issue, the issue is the poor performance of the players whether on the MCG against Carlton and Essendon or in Darwin or Cairns.

 

Agree

[Smokey]

You are gagging if you think selling games wasn't the right thing to do.

Were we ever going to win the Flag this year?

Were we ever going to do any more than maybe scrap into 8th?

Selling the games has kicked a million dollars into the kitty, not selling them probably means we are a million+ short as we would've lost money on the 2 games.

Simple fact is we need more cash to have the resources to compete with the Collingwoods of the comp.

Not many better ways to make easy cash than by selling a game like that, it is not the issue, the issue is the poor performance of the players whether on the MCG against Carlton and Essendon or in Darwin or Cairns.

Absolutely.   

[Stripes]

You are gagging if you think selling games wasn't the right thing to do.

Were we ever going to win the Flag this year?

Were we ever going to do any more than maybe scrap into 8th?

Selling the games has kicked a million dollars into the kitty, not selling them probably means we are a million+ short as we would've lost money on the 2 games.

Simple fact is we need more cash to have the resources to compete with the Collingwoods of the comp.

Not many better ways to make easy cash than by selling a game like that, it is not the issue, the issue is the poor performance of the players whether on the MCG against Carlton and Essendon or in Darwin or Cairns.

Why stop at two games then? I'm happy to bring in more financials and thought the on sell of games was a good idea as a revenue raiser but it was an undeniably poor decision in terms of team success. I'm usually far more concerned with long term development but when people start to claim that the club's decision to move these games had no bearing on the result of the two contests then this is when I have a hard time accepting this. Whatever way you want to dress it up we sold those results to GC and Port for money, if not as a forgone conclusion, then certainly in a nice gift wrapped box. All advantage we would of had was stripped away by the foreign venue and conditions and while both opposition teams had to endure the same circumstances, they were conditions we would not of had to worry about if we had played in Melbourne.

Once again I understand the rationale behind the on-selling of games to help our long terms financial future, but please don't try and tell me it didn't hurt our chance of success during the encounters.

[Smokey]

Can't agree Stripes.  If we had played with even a modicum of purpose and desire then we would have both games easily regardless of the venue.

[WilliamPowell]

All advantage we would of had was stripped away by the foreign venue and conditions and while both opposition teams had to endure the same circumstances, they were conditions we would not of had to worry about if we had played in Melbourne.

Once again I understand the rationale behind the on-selling of games to help our long terms financial future, but please don't try and tell me it didn't hurt our chance of success during the encounters.

I have never been in favour of selling games, go back to when the draw came out and you'll find I made my views on it very very clear

However, I still reckon people saying if the games were played in Melb we would have won is a massive cop out.

Facts are it would not have mattered one iota where the games was played; if we dished up the crap we've dished up in these 2 games we would have still been beaten. Blaming the venue/conditions is a massive cop out IMHO, biggest "get out of jail card" you can give any team.  

Yesterday when the game was on the line the Suns wanted it more, we had too many passengers and no one prepared to stand up and drag us to the line... that isn't the fault of Cairns or Darwin that is our biggest glaring weakness

And BTW if we our mindset was such that playing an interstate home game was going to "hurt our chance of success during the encounters" then we have bigger problems than the gapping holes in our list

[Stripes]

Can't agree Stripes.  If we had played with even a modicum of purpose and desire then we would have both games easily regardless of the venue.

I'm not saying the venue was the only, or even, the main reason we last in both games but it is undeniable detrimental to the overall outcome. I hate the fact that we feel we have to hurt our on-field chances just to help our off-field bottom-line. Such a frustrating ferry-go-round that many other clubs just don't seem to need to ride.

[Stripes]

I have never been in favour of selling games, go back to when the draw came out and you'll find I made my views on it very very clear

However, I still reckon people saying if the games were played in Melb we would have won is a massive cop out.

Facts are it would not have mattered one iota where the games was played; if we dished up the crap we've dished up in these 2 games we would have still been beaten. Blaming the venue/conditions is a massive cop out IMHO, biggest "get out of jail card" you can give any team.  

Yesterday when the game was on the line the Suns wanted it more, we had too many passengers and no one prepared to stand up and drag us to the line... that isn't the fault of Cairns or Darwin that is our biggest glaring weakness

And BTW if we our mindset was such that playing an interstate home game was going to "hurt our chance of success during the encounters" then we have bigger problems than the gapping holes in our list

We're really arguing semantics here WP. I agree with almost all of what you said. I stated early in the thread that I don't believe the venue was the only reason or even the main reason for our losses but I believe it is impossible to argue that the venue took away any advantage we may have had and in fact was negating to our normal strengths.

[WilliamPowell]

We're really arguing semantics here WP. I agree with almost all of what you said. I stated early in the thread that I don't believe the venue was the only reason or even the main reason for our losses but I believe it is impossible to argue that the venue took away any advantage we may have had and in fact was negating to our normal strengths.

That maybe true stripes but at the end of the day it was a neutral venue so it was up us take make it our venue and utilise our strengths and we didn't.


6.8 in the 1st qtr is what killed us. If we are truly honest here we should have been 10.4 or 11.3 at the end of the 1st. TBH at 6.8 the arguemnt could be we had them by the throat and we let it slip and we reaped what we sowed

[Stripes]

We're really arguing semantics here WP. I agree with almost all of what you said. I stated early in the thread that I don't believe the venue was the only reason or even the main reason for our losses but I believe it is impossible to argue that the venue took away any advantage we may have had and in fact was negating to our normal strengths.

That maybe true stripes but at the end of the day it was a neutral venue so it was up us take make it our venue and utilise our strengths and we didn't.


6.8 in the 1st qtr is what killed us. If we are truly honest here we should have been 10.4 or 11.3 at the end of the 1st. TBH at 6.8 the arguemnt could be we had them by the throat and we let it slip and we reaped what we sowed

All true and if we had of won both games we would have been heralding the decision but we didn't and the slippery conditions in Darwin and wind in Cairns was enough to tip our fragile team over. Basically the venue had a negative bearing on the result. Now whether those two results would have had any bearing on our chances to make a finals appearance this year and whether if conditions such as these can make such a difference we therefore deserve that opportunity, is a whole other story but the effect was the same.

I'm not arguing that we should have won both games and it shouldn't have mattered where or when we played either team...but it did.

[Smokey]

But Stripes, you still haven't shown how it hurt us or changed the result.  We played crap and crap at the 'G' or Etihad or Marrara or Cairns is just that - crap.  We even had the majority of the crowd on our side in Darwin so we can't play the "nineteenth man" card either.  Did playing in Melbourne make a difference to the way we played vs Carlton or Essendon?

[Stripes]

But Stripes, you still haven't shown how it hurt us or changed the result.  We played crap and crap at the 'G' or Etihad or Marrara or Cairns is just that - crap.  We even had the majority of the crowd on our side in Darwin so we can't play the "nineteenth man" card either.  Did playing in Melbourne make a difference to the way we played vs Carlton or Essendon?

You're right smokey. If we had of served up what we did against Carlton we would have lost regardless of the venue but the venue's, while not the exclusive reason, we contributing factors to both our losses. If we were a good team we would have adapted and won regardless but as a young, mentally fragile and inconsistent team, we couldn't.

In Darwin we could not handle the slippery conditions and did not prepare adequately for them like our opponents did. Our game is a highly skilled and pace style where quick and, most importantly, clean ball use can cut opponents to pieces. From the start of the game we were fumbling the ball, dropping easy marks, crumbing and lost our link up play. Subsequently we lost the confidence to play our normal game. Port were better prepared and used to the venue having played their before, using gloves and training in the same conditions before the game. The conditions were no shock to them. If we were a stronger team the conditions would have been less of an influencing factor but for us they were enough to tip us off our game.

Similarly in Cairns, the conditions magnified our weaknesses and highlighted GC. The strong wind game us a great start with our long kicking to contests breaking the game apart but when the tide was turned our backline was serverly exposed. In particular our backlines ability to run the ball out of defence and have the confidence to take risks. Our inexperienced defenders were fearful of losing the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarters instead of trying to win it. Gold Coasts defence had no such fear and were far more experienced than our own. They had nothing to lose. As soon as I saw they had rested Hunt, I knew they believed they had a real chance against us and this would be a huge challenge for a Tiger side who was even younger than themselves.

As I have stated, the venue was not the only reason for the loss - far from it, but it was undeniably a contributing factor and may well have been a factor large enough to make a difference to both results.

[Go Richo 12]

Maybe we should sell a game like the one coming up this week!
At least we will be thousands of klms when we get a hole rubbed into us! The crowd will be down this week so financially it wont hurt us!
I understand the theory behind selling games, it just hurts me to see it happen! I still believe however that the best way to become financially sound is to have sustained success on the field! I hope that selling games does that and we never have to do it again. I want to be able to hang it on my North mates again for prostituting themselves!