Captain to be announced at 2.30pm

[JohnF]

joel did have a severe shoulder reco, which took him a while to recover from, he cant be blamed for that

More than anything though, Joel wasn't restricted by a shoulder injury but by his woeful use of the football. He was the clanger king before 2004 and that's what hampered him in games more than anything else.

[froars]

My only problem with Brown is one year at RFC vs 10 or so from Joel.
I wonder what the appointment means to him other than another line on his CV, as opposed to Joel's luv of the club.
I basically don't care - either of them will make good captains, with Richo being the exception.  I reckon he can be satisfied he was one of the four in contention.

[JohnF]

My only problem with Brown is one year at RFC vs 10 or so from Joel.
I wonder what the appointment means to him other than another line on his CV, as opposed to Joel's luv of the club.
I basically don't care - either of them will make good captains, with Richo being the exception.  I reckon he can be satisfied he was one of the four in contention.

My biggest worry for Brown is that he is a bit of a show-offy type, and I prefer grounded footballers to do the leading.

But about Bowden, seriously, there has been such a backflip on this bloke it borders on rediculous. Before 2004 serious questions were being asked about whether he should be in the top 22, and he plays 2/3's of a great season and automatically he should be a chance at the captaincy?

2002 and 2003 were bad years for Joel, (even though statistically they were solid) and even though he has been at the club for a long time, i can't say he's been that good for more than a couple of seasons.

Maybe I am a little harsh on him, I admit he isn't amongst my favourites.

[froars]

I was probably one of Joel's biggest baggers, John, so i know what you're getting at.
But i was really impressed with the way he went about it after he was dropped last year and to win the B&F after such bad form showed a lot of grit to me.

[letsgetiton!]

joel did have a severe shoulder reco, which took him a while to recover from, he cant be blamed for that

More than anything though, Joel wasn't restricted by a shoulder injury but by his woeful use of the football. He was the clanger king before 2004 and that's what hampered him in games more than anything else.

bit harsh on joel! he di dhave his fair of clangers, but take note, brownie and esp kane miss their targets regularly also! kane for some reason kicks very bad at times and gets away with it! this year he will be scrutenised more and we will see how he also kicks some shockers.
kane is the captain, we support him but get real , 10 years of mostly gr8 service should have gotten joel over the line, they say kane grew up a tiger supprter , wow, joel is the son of a tiger champ!

[froars]

Tis a good position we're in that we can argue the merits of 3 players, when only a couple of years we only had Cambo 

[Fishfinger]

I remember seeing Bowden's 2002 stats a while back JohnF. They weren't "solid". They were sensational. I was surprised by how good they were, 5th in the entire comp for kicks from memory.

I'm not a stats person so I go more on what I see. I've seen only one ordinary year from Joel - 2003. (even then he was fantastic in a few games) Around that I've seen 3 excellent years - 2001, 2002, 2004. Prior to that he showed what he could do but suffered serious collarbone breaks that threatened to end his career.

As for 2/3's of a good season, try 19 great games out of 22. He was dropped from the senior team and the leadership group by Frawley when he had played a couple of bad games while being far from our worst and when we were basically bereft of leaders. I view his axing as just another bad judgement in a long line of mistakes by the coach and his staff. I think this mistake has unfairly tainted Bowden's reputation and what irks me about it is that people who are puzzled by things that Frawley did have embraced this decision by him as though it was a good one.

[froars]

I didn't think Joel was our worst player, but he got me the maddest because i thought he could have been better than just an average player.  He's got good skills, but to me he lacked "intensity", which is another way of me saying he didn't go in hard enough.  That may or may not have had something to do with his shoulder not having the confidence to go in, but it didn't look good to a lot of us.  But to me, he redeemed himself in the best way possible last year to show us that he is better than the average player and got rewarded for it.

[cub]

Tis a good position we're in that we can argue the merits of 3 players, when only a couple of years we only had Cambo 

Exactly 

I think Kane was the wise choice - Richo and his tantrums dont send the right message - Personally I dont really mind them as people show thier passion in different ways and Richo Definitely wears his heart on his sleeve  Bowden as mentioned here finished the season perfect but was a bit inconsistent here and there before that. needs to just concentrate on maintaing that form 
Browny - well we all know what a great player he is but after only 1 year - it would have been a big kick in the guts to a few and like others have mentioned TW might not want to be seen playing favs (doubtful BUT) 

And with Cog's and then any of deledio hyde hartigan jackson etc etc waiting in the wings to take us into the future - well as one song says

My future's so bright I gotta wear shades 

[JohnF]

I remember seeing Bowden's 2002 stats a while back JohnF. They weren't "solid". They were sensational. I was surprised by how good they were, 5th in the entire comp for kicks from memory.

I'm not a stats person so I go more on what I see. I've seen only one ordinary year from Joel - 2003. (even then he was fantastic in a few games) Around that I've seen 3 excellent years - 2001, 2002, 2004. Prior to that he showed what he could do but suffered serious collarbone breaks that threatened to end his career.

As for 2/3's of a good season, try 19 great games out of 22. He was dropped from the senior team and the leadership group by Frawley when he had played a couple of bad games while being far from our worst and when we were basically bereft of leaders. I view his axing as just another bad judgement in a long line of mistakes by the coach and his staff. I think this mistake has unfairly tainted Bowden's reputation and what irks me about it is that people who are puzzled by things that Frawley did have embraced this decision by him as though it was a good one.

If he has been so fantastic, then why prior to last year had he only registered a third in the Richmond best and fairest after all his years at Richmond?

Why weren't the club acknowledging how many disposals he was amassing every week?

[Fishfinger]

They were too busy acknowledging how many Campbell was amassing.

[Fishfinger]

I can't speak for how the club thought. I can only speculate that maybe they thought along the lines of how many supporters appear to, that being to rate him on playing to a standard expected of him because of his obvious talent rather than rating him as he was playing which was below what he could but still way better than most mere AFL standard footballers.

I think in 2001 & 2002 he should have been in the top few of our B&F. I presume he wasn't from your question. Campbell was clearly our best in those years (I'm assuming he won both). Coughlan was clearly best in 2003 and Bowden in 2004, so they get that right. The players that make up the minor placings often surprise me though.

[one-eyed]

Johnson 'rapt' with captaincy
3:30:14 PM Tue 15 March, 2005
Paul Gough
Sportal for afl.com.au

On his fourth birthday a young Kane Johnson received his first Richmond jumper, complete with the number three then worn by Tigers' legend Dale Weightman.

And on Tuesday exactly 23 years later Johnson received yet another Rchmond jumper on his 27th birthday - this time with the number 17 on it to signify he is the new Tigers' skipper.

The lifelong Richmond fan, who was a member of Adelaide's 1997 and 1998 premiership teams, takes over from Wayne Campbell, who handed the Tigers' most famous guernsey - the same number worn by the club's greatest player, Jack Dyer and which is now always assigned to the Tigers' skipper - to Johnson to signify the changing of the guard at Punt Road.

Johnson's rise to the captaincy comes at the start of only his third year at the club while former Bulldog Nathan Brown, who is about to start his second season at Punt Road, is the new vice-captain.

The other two captaincy candidates in veteran pair Matthew Richardson and Joel Bowden - whose fathers were both premiership players for Richmond - were named the joint deputy vice-captains.

But while Johnson might still be a relative newcomer to Punt Road, even though he has been runner-up in the best and fairest in both his seasons in the yellow and black to date, there was little doubt how much the captaincy honor meant to him on Tuesday.

"I did barrack for the club from day one and got my first Richmond guernsey on my fourth birthday with Dale Weightman's number on it," he said.

"I've still got the photo of it at home and I have always had a soft spot for Richmond, even when I was at Adelaide."

But even Johnson cannot believe how quickly he has become captain of his beloved Tigers.

"When it was time to come home (from Adelaide) it was a huge day for me and I never thought I would be sitting here (as captain) two years later."

"I'm rapt to be in this position and I am looking forward to being captain for the next 12 months and then hopefully longer."

While Richmond coach Terry Wallace stressed the leadership appointments were for this year only, he said he saw Johnson as a long-term Richmond captain.

And Wallace said the fact that Johnson - the only premiership player on the Tigers' list - had been part of Adelaide's climb to premiership glory in the 1990's was a factor in making him captain.

"Kane is someone who has been to the mountain top, he is a dual premiership player and he was at Adelaide when they were down and was part of the resurgence over there," Wallace said.

Johnson vowed the Tigers would improve enormously in 2005 after last year's wooden spoon finish, vowing the club would be "competitive" in all its matches.

And he harked back to his early years at Adelaide as to how quickly the fortunes of an AFL club can change.

In Johnson's first year in 1996 the Crows finished 12th, yet in the next two years won the premiership as new coach Malcolm Blight transformed the club in much the same way as Wallace is hoping to transform the Tigers.

"Every game we go into now, the main aim to be competitive, play with flair and take opposition and that's what I have to instill into our young kids," said Johnson, who was believed to be the clear top choice of the Richmond players to take over as captain.

"I've already seen a massive change in the boys since when we came back to (pre-season) training in November."

"It's now similar to when we I started at Adelaide, we had finished 12th then but then we had a fresh start with young players, a new coach and a new game plan and we went to first the next year."

"Back then we just aimed to be competitive in each game and if you are competitive in each game then you don’t know what will happen."

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=190267

[one-eyed]

Captaincy choice a statement: Wallace
3:23:47 PM Tue 15 March, 2005
Paul Gough
Sportal for afl.com.au

Richmond coach Terry Wallace has a message for those questioning his decision to give the Tigers' two top on-field positions to two players who between them have played for the club for just three years… remember Stephen Kernahan.

The Tigers announced on Tuesday that dual Adelaide premiership player Kane Johnson would be the club's new captain while former Bulldog star Nathan Brown would be vice-captain in 2005.

The pair beat off the challenge of two long-serving Tigers in Matthew Richardson and Joel Bowden - whose fathers were both Richmond premiership players - in the four-man race for the captaincy with that pair instead named as deputy vice-captains.

Johnson has been with the Tigers just two years while Brown has played just one season at Punt Road since leaving the Bulldogs.

However new Tigers coach Wallace said leadership was not about how long a player had been at the club, reminding fans that some of the best captains in league history had taken on the job while relative newcomers at their clubs.

"You go back to the leaders of the past and you don’t necessarily get success by picking people who have been around (the club) for a while," he said.

"Certainly Stephen Kernahan wasn’t around a long time when he was captain of that (Carlton) footy club and then there was (former Essendon player) Barry Davis going to North Melbourne and becoming captain."

Kernahan took over the Carlton captaincy in 1987, at the start of only his second season with the Blues, and immediately led the club to the flag and to another in 1995 and by the time he stood down as captain at the end of 1997 was the longest-serving club captain in the history of the game.

And Davis led the Roos into a grand final in only his second year with the club in 1974 and then led the Kangas to their historic first premiership the following season.

Wallace described the Tigers' leadership appointments as 2005 and "a mixture of old and new" and admits it was tough finding a balance between newcomers Brown and Johnson and club stalwarts Bowden and Richardson.

"What one club needs is not necessarily what another club needs," he said.

"One of the hardest things we had to deal with was we had two guys (Bowden and Richardson) who were heart and soul boys, whose fathers played for Richmond, and the two guys who are now captain and vice-captain haven't spent as much time at the footy club."

"We took that into calculations and whether that would be perceived as a snub of the Richmond of old, but it's not meant to be that way."

"We needed to make a statement of where the footy club was headed and we needed to make a loud, strong statement - whether that offended people or not."

While admitting to being surprised at getting the captaincy after only two years, Johnson - who was the clear top pick to take over as captain by the Richmond players - said the more experienced Richmond players would still have a huge on-field role this year.

"I can assure you we have all been working together," he said of the captaincy contenders.

"And it's not just about the four of us, there are also people like Greg Stafford and Darren Gaspar that can stand up as leaders and that's what you need."

"Look at Brisbane, they have ten or 11 (on-field) leaders, it's not just about (skipper) Michael Voss and that is where we have got to get to as a club."

And for his part, Richardson - the Tigers' highest profile and most loved player - is far from disappointed at missing out on the captaincy to Johnson after last year not even being part of the club's leadership group.

"I was just rapt to be in the running to be captain and rapt to be back in the leadership group," he said.

"I wasn't in it last year and it's good to be back and I am looking forward to supporting Johnno."

http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&spg=display&articleid=190281

[mightytiges]

I can't speak for how the club thought. I can only speculate that maybe they thought along the lines of how many supporters appear to, that being to rate him on playing to a standard expected of him because of his obvious talent rather than rating him as he was playing which was below what he could but still way better than most mere AFL standard footballers.

I think there's alot in that FF although it could be said that is/was systematic of a club that consistently overrated its players by basing its ratings on potential rather than reality.

The rapts on Joel when he was young was that he would be our Hird. The collarbone injuries hindered him alot as he appeared from afar that he would avoid certain contests for self-protection (that one arm attempt at a mark in front of the members in 2003 an example). Even in 2001 he particularly go in to win the hard ball. Prior to the shoulder injuries when he was starting out he was developing that inside ballgetting role in his game. I can't think of a game since where he dominated out of the centre. He typically played more as a skillful flanker before 2004. IMO this and his percieved laconical behaviour on field with the typical brain explosion are where the "soft" perception comes from. His infamous play-on kick-ins that resulted in turnovers and goals to the opposition in 2003 just made you want to wring his neck.

Once a player even a young one reaches a certain level of performance and gets supporter expectations up then falls back below that in some way he'll cop it from the stands. When Joel went to CHB last year he wasn't expected to do so well so expectations were much lower so it was easier for him to reach them. In fact along with what appeared a higher intensity and a more focused attitude he exceeded them by a mile so everyone got off his back. One stat that stands out is he turned a usual negative free kick count into a positive 28-5 one last year. Probably shows he was more disciplined last year.

Statistically Joel's raw stats leave Kane and everyone else at the club except Cambo for dead. Roughly 500 possies from 22 games per year. It was just that Bowden's turnovers were frustratingly dumb rather than as a result of a skill error. Perfect passes straight to the opposition costing us goals. I remember a friday night game against the Crows at the 'G in 2001 where in the first quarter we were killing them from the start and they never looked like scoring. Joel having taken a mark 30m out could have put our 3rd or 4th goal on the board by the 10min mark. Instead he tried to run around the mark and made a mess of it. From the turnover the Crows ran it up the other end for an easy and their first goal. Instead of having all the momentum and wrapping up the game at 1/4 time the Crows got back into the game and then ran over us in the second half. He then did exactly the same thing a few weeks later against the Hawks from memory. It's these sort of braindead acts that made Joel second to Daffy as the supporters' scapegoat before 2004.

Just on Kane. His tackle rate has doubled since he's been at Tigerland and as John pointed out he's averaged roughly 450 possies from 19/20 games the past 3 years. Before 2002 he kept suffering from hammies. He only played 13 and 18 games in the Crows' premiership years yet was argubly second to Macleod in both GF wins. He's stood up in the big games which is something our core players over the last decade have been accused of not doing. This IMHO is why Wallace emphasized Johnno's 2 flags as a major reason he got the gig.