What's our best 22 now?

[tony_montana]

Paul Salmon was pretty good...

Also thought Ottens was a star for us up forward.

Had one big year as a fwd, hardly what you'd classify as a dominant fwd. for Geelong he was a star as a ruckman not a fwd

[tony_montana]

Paul Salmon was pretty good...

Had that one purple patch half season as a fwd before doing his knee - tragedy,

he was better than pretty food, but was he a star or consistently dominant fwd? Ruck/fwd

[the claw]

and for geelong

general patton
boyd
mcbean
hogan
hawkins
pimples

its clear as mud they are getting bigger, regardless of clawks 2 meter fetish

every position is getting larger / faster / more endurance

you have to be very good to make it as a little person

compare the size of the richmond history famous key forward and rucks to the current list

Mate i made the simple observationthat over the years there have been very few 200cm players who have played kpf to a consistent high standard.
From that simple observation yrs ago a bunch of snmart arses decided to to take the pee. you lot are still procratinating about it.
The simple fact is not just at richmond but all clubs you are hard pressed to find a very good consistent 200cm bloke who regularly played kpf.
My thought remains the same on this. If i was chasing after a gun key fwd i would be reluctant to go hard at a 200cm bloke. Why because to date so few have shown they can play kpf and of those that have the best i can come up with is tippett.

I think people have got so petty about this simple observation because we have Three blokes who fall into that category and they just cant stomach the thought of them being no good.

I am not stupid enough to suggest there wont ever be a great 200cm key fwd but quite clearly even up to this point in time it will most likely remain a rarity.

[the claw]

and for geelong

general patton 198cm he may not be 200cm but hes a ruckman.
boyd 200cm LOTS OF ????
mcbean 200cm  TO DATE A TOTAL DUD AS A TALL PLAYER
hogan 195cm AT 195CM HE DOESNT FIT THE CRITERIA.
hawkins 198cm AGAIN DOES NOT FIT THE CRITERIA.
pimples i presume the lad at essendon 201cm. Has done exactly what to date?

its clear as mud they are getting bigger, regardless of clawks 2 meter fetish

every position is getting larger / faster / more endurance

you have to be very good to make it as a little person

compare the size of the richmond history famous key forward and rucks to the current list

you  have to be exceptional to become a very good kpf at 200cm. No one is arguing players are getting taller but the cut of for quality kpfs remains at below 200cm.

You tell me, your after a kpf.  you have a quality kid at 195cm who could become a kpf and another at 200cm of similar talent. you have the info in front of you of just how many 200cm blokes become kpfs which one would you target.

[Stalin]

and for geelong

general patton 198cm he may not be 200cm but hes a ruckman.
boyd 200cm LOTS OF ????
mcbean 200cm  TO DATE A TOTAL DUD AS A TALL PLAYER
hogan 195cm AT 195CM HE DOESNT FIT THE CRITERIA.
hawkins 198cm AGAIN DOES NOT FIT THE CRITERIA.
pimples i presume the lad at essendon 201cm. Has done exactly what to date?

its clear as mud they are getting bigger, regardless of clawks 2 meter fetish

every position is getting larger / faster / more endurance

you have to be very good to make it as a little person

compare the size of the richmond history famous key forward and rucks to the current list

you  have to be exceptional to become a very good kpf at 200cm. No one is arguing players are getting taller but the cut of for quality kpfs remains at below 200cm.

You tell me, your after a kpf.  you have a quality kid at 195cm who could become a kpf and another at 200cm of similar talent. you have the info in front of you of just how many 200cm blokes become kpfs which one would you target.

of the four key forwards 200cm richmond has had on the books, since 1885

3 are currently on the list

what conclusions do you draw from that oh wise sage?

for the record, McBean, Vickery, Griffiths can all still potentially 'make it' as AFL standard key forwards. Maric goes alright in a pocket too

[the claw]

and for geelong

general patton 198cm he may not be 200cm but hes a ruckman.
boyd 200cm LOTS OF ????
mcbean 200cm  TO DATE A TOTAL DUD AS A TALL PLAYER
hogan 195cm AT 195CM HE DOESNT FIT THE CRITERIA.
hawkins 198cm AGAIN DOES NOT FIT THE CRITERIA.
pimples i presume the lad at essendon 201cm. Has done exactly what to date?

its clear as mud they are getting bigger, regardless of clawks 2 meter fetish

every position is getting larger / faster / more endurance

you have to be very good to make it as a little person

compare the size of the richmond history famous key forward and rucks to the current list

you  have to be exceptional to become a very good kpf at 200cm. No one is arguing players are getting taller but the cut of for quality kpfs remains at below 200cm.

You tell me, your after a kpf.  you have a quality kid at 195cm who could become a kpf and another at 200cm of similar talent. you have the info in front of you of just how many 200cm blokes become kpfs which one would you target.

of the four key forwards 200cm richmond has had on the books, since 1885

3 are currently on the list

what conclusions do you draw from that oh wise sage?

for the record, McBean, Vickery, Griffiths can all still potentially 'make it' as AFL standard key forwards. Maric goes alright in a pocket too

1885 IS A LONG TIME AGO SON Lol.  Your just like the rest revelling in mediocrity. So what are you saying here?  They can all still become okay players. I thought we we were talking about consistenly very good key fwds.
They are freakin bums show some common sense man.

So we get to the crux of it eh. your objection about my 200cm comments  is not about 200cm kpfs   but  the fact we have three on our list  and you cant bare the thought of them being duds.
Thats freakin funny ive heard it all now. Theres a better chance of pigs flying than all three becoming very good kpfs.

[Stalin]

touche'

[Penelope]

maybe failed was the wrong wording, but they are all rucks or ruck/forwards rather than forwards

Correct and they're ruck/forwards rather than Fwds for a reason - at that size they will always fill a need to be part time ruck - jack of all trades master of none.

And you have nailed the reason there, generally blokes of that size will be playing ruck first and foremost, particularly at junior level. These blokes were all playing mainly ruck at u/18s. I've always felt that a ruckman that cant go forward is useless, but in modern footy with interchange restrictions the now defunct substitute rule even more so.

Bent Judge is also correct in saying that footballers are getting taller across the board.

While it may be true that very few players over 200cm have made it as KPFs, there have also been very few playes over 200cm pklayed primarily as KPFs and there are other sound logiucal reasons as why there have not been many.

The idea that 200cm is some magical number and once a player reaches that height he becomes incapable of succesfully playing as a KPF so is not sound logical reasoning, but narrow minded dogma.

As with anything the only rational way to look at it is look at each case individually, and if a bloke has the skillsets and attributes required why would you discount him just because he is "too tall"?
After all, everything else being equal, a 205 cm forward is going to be harder to keep quiet than a 195 one.

[tony_montana]

maybe failed was the wrong wording, but they are all rucks or ruck/forwards rather than forwards

Correct and they're ruck/forwards rather than Fwds for a reason - at that size they will always fill a need to be part time ruck - jack of all trades master of none.

And you have nailed the reason there, generally blokes of that size will be playing ruck first and foremost, particularly at junior level. These blokes were all playing mainly ruck at u/18s. I've always felt that a ruckman that cant go forward is useless, but in modern footy with interchange restrictions the now defunct substitute rule even more so.

Bent Judge is also correct in saying that footballers are getting taller across the board.

While it may be true that very few players over 200cm have made it as KPFs, there have also been very few playes over 200cm pklayed primarily as KPFs and there are other sound logiucal reasons as why there have not been many.

The idea that 200cm is some magical number and once a player reaches that height he becomes incapable of succesfully playing as a KPF so is not sound logical reasoning, but narrow minded dogma.

As with anything the only rational way to look at it is look at each case individually, and if a bloke has the skillsets and attributes required why would you discount him just because he is "too tall"?
After all, everything else being equal, a 205 cm forward is going to be harder to keep quiet than a 195 one.

You're not wrong Al, however, I have yet to see one 200cm+ guy that has the  whole movement package - that is speed on the lead, agility, lateral movement and ability to repeat lead. I guess if you take out 2 of the freakiest athletes we've ever seen in richo and buddy then 195ish seems the cut off for that perfect balance of size and movement needed in a gun KPF, anything above that and movement is compromised hence they need to be ruck/Fwds. Will be interested to see if that changes over the next 5 or so years.

[Stalin]

Perfect would be 203 in te lebron James Model

[the claw]

maybe failed was the wrong wording, but they are all rucks or ruck/forwards rather than forwards

Correct and they're ruck/forwards rather than Fwds for a reason - at that size they will always fill a need to be part time ruck - jack of all trades master of none.

And you have nailed the reason there, generally blokes of that size will be playing ruck first and foremost, particularly at junior level. These blokes were all playing mainly ruck at u/18s. I've always felt that a ruckman that cant go forward is useless, but in modern footy with interchange restrictions the now defunct substitute rule even more so.

Bent Judge is also correct in saying that footballers are getting taller across the board.

While it may be true that very few players over 200cm have made it as KPFs, there have also been very few playes over 200cm pklayed primarily as KPFs and there are other sound logiucal reasons as why there have not been many.

The idea that 200cm is some magical number and once a player reaches that height he becomes incapable of succesfully playing as a KPF so is not sound logical reasoning, but narrow minded dogma.

As with anything the only rational way to look at it is look at each case individually, and if a bloke has the skillsets and attributes required why would you discount him just because he is "too tall"?
After all, everything else being equal, a 205 cm forward is going to be harder to keep quiet than a 195 one.

oh penny penny penny grasping at straws. just admit your wrong. you clearly are a girl who is  just not man enough to admit when wrong.  cmon  fess up your hopes are hanging on one of vickery mcbean griffiths.

Oh by the way im not the one who has made 200cm out to be some magical number your doing that all by yourself. Thats a nice attempt at saving face.

[the claw]

maybe failed was the wrong wording, but they are all rucks or ruck/forwards rather than forwards

Correct and they're ruck/forwards rather than Fwds for a reason - at that size they will always fill a need to be part time ruck - jack of all trades master of none.

And you have nailed the reason there, generally blokes of that size will be playing ruck first and foremost, particularly at junior level. These blokes were all playing mainly ruck at u/18s. I've always felt that a ruckman that cant go forward is useless, but in modern footy with interchange restrictions the now defunct substitute rule even more so.

Bent Judge is also correct in saying that footballers are getting taller across the board.

While it may be true that very few players over 200cm have made it as KPFs, there have also been very few playes over 200cm pklayed primarily as KPFs and there are other sound logiucal reasons as why there have not been many.

The idea that 200cm is some magical number and once a player reaches that height he becomes incapable of succesfully playing as a KPF so is not sound logical reasoning, but narrow minded dogma.

As with anything the only rational way to look at it is look at each case individually, and if a bloke has the skillsets and attributes required why would you discount him just because he is "too tall"?
After all, everything else being equal, a 205 cm forward is going to be harder to keep quiet than a 195 one.

ah jack of all trades master of none. It is plagarism that has been my phrase for how long now describing vickery griffiths and now mcbean.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Is Penelope Al?

[Penelope]

maybe failed was the wrong wording, but they are all rucks or ruck/forwards rather than forwards

Correct and they're ruck/forwards rather than Fwds for a reason - at that size they will always fill a need to be part time ruck - jack of all trades master of none.

And you have nailed the reason there, generally blokes of that size will be playing ruck first and foremost, particularly at junior level. These blokes were all playing mainly ruck at u/18s. I've always felt that a ruckman that cant go forward is useless, but in modern footy with interchange restrictions the now defunct substitute rule even more so.

Bent Judge is also correct in saying that footballers are getting taller across the board.

While it may be true that very few players over 200cm have made it as KPFs, there have also been very few playes over 200cm pklayed primarily as KPFs and there are other sound logiucal reasons as why there have not been many.

The idea that 200cm is some magical number and once a player reaches that height he becomes incapable of succesfully playing as a KPF so is not sound logical reasoning, but narrow minded dogma.

As with anything the only rational way to look at it is look at each case individually, and if a bloke has the skillsets and attributes required why would you discount him just because he is "too tall"?
After all, everything else being equal, a 205 cm forward is going to be harder to keep quiet than a 195 one.

oh penny penny penny grasping at straws. just admit your wrong. you clearly are a girl who is  just not man enough to admit when wrong.  cmon  fess up your hopes are hanging on one of vickery mcbean griffiths.

Oh by the way im not the one who has made 200cm out to be some magical number your doing that all by yourself. Thats a nice attempt at saving face.

lol oh great lord just has to say you are wrong and that is that. No need to address the arguments put forward at all.

The world of a narcissist must be a good one indeed......

....until reality sets in

[tony_montana]

Perfect would be 203 in te lebron James Model

Yeap,
But good luck with that