Author Topic: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)  (Read 13132 times)

Dubstep Dookie

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #45 on: November 03, 2012, 09:03:55 AM »
This para of Caro's article sums it up perfectly:-

What Melbourne did in manipulating results was disgusting. The result of the fix was pathetic. To think that so many reputations could be destroyed and so many playing careers hurt all for one ambitious young footballer who began looking for a way out of the place after only one year.

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #46 on: November 04, 2012, 12:45:32 PM »
Nov 19 is Dee-Day for the tanking investigation.


THE CLOCK is ticking on the AFL investigation into tanking being completed before the AFL Commission's next scheduled meeting on November 19.
 
While a decision could be still be made that affects Melbourne in this year's AFL National Draft, to be held three days later on November 22 - coincidentally 10 years to the day since sanctions were imposed on Carlton for salary cap breaches - it is more likely as each day passes that any ruling will come into effect after the draft is held on the Gold Coast.


https://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/150722/default.aspx

Offline Penelope

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2012, 03:59:13 PM »
I cant see the league banning Melbourne from the draft this year, it will create too many dramas in terms of numbers on the list and TPPs. They may take away early picks though, leaving them only with 2nd or 3rd round picks.

As one of the journos said, there is a certain irony in that any draft related sanctions that are effective will ultimately result in more early draft picks for Melbourne down the track.

We may yet see criminal charges laid against individuals, which is what bookmakers would be pushing for. After all we are talking about match fixing in a sport which can legally be bet on, which is a crime.
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #48 on: November 04, 2012, 08:41:54 PM »
Playing younger players for pure development reasons because you have the youngest list in the comp. as we did in 2010 or sending senior players for ops because the injury is significantly hampering their performance (ie. Vickery with his shoulder this year) is player management. Simulating these things because your club's main intention is to try and stay at or below a certain number of wins limit that earns your club an early priority pick is called tanking.

I'm not saying the Pies weren't smart doing what they did in 2005 as the AFL's draft system, especially back then with the pre-first round priority picks for just one bad season, rewarded such actions handsomely. They have a flag thanks to getting both Thomas and Pendelbury. However let's call a spade a spade. Just like Carlton in 2007, it wasn't hard to see what the Pies were up to in 2005 and that 4 goal cave-in late to North was very similar to the game Carlton threw away late in the last quarter ironically against the Pies in 2007.

The draft system rewarded such exploitive behaviour by clubs and encouraged other clubs to copy such behaviour having seen other clubs benefit for the exploitation of the priority pick system. IMO Melbourne went down the path they did because they lost out to Carlton in the Kruezer Cup. Carlton gained Kreuzer and Judd out of it while the Dees ended up with Cale Morton. The problem for Melbourne is they let everyone know about it as it was a directive from high up at the club all the way down and they weren't subtle about implementing what they wanted to do. Rather than their tanking occurring in the last 8 or so rounds of one season which can be construed as 'player management', they had planned a 2-3 year tank as the rules had changed by 2009 and you needed two poor seasons in a row to gain a pre-first round priority pick. Once they cut Bailey who felt he was only following orders and then Scully taking flight because he didn't like what was going on, the cat got out of the bag. The AFL have always taken a hard line against systematic breaches by clubs over a lengthy period. Adelaide is finding that out now as well but for different reasons to Melbourne (ie. Tippett contract affair).

IMO the following clubs "tanked"
2005 Collingwood
2007 Carlton
2009 Melbourne
2010 West Coast

Also the Hawks game against us late in 2005 where they lost after being 7 goals up on us at half-time (Pettifer got the winning goal in the last minute) was a handy loss for them as they remained on 5 wins and kept hold of their priority pick. I still remember Hawk fans celebrating a loss just as Dee fans did after that 2009 game.
No doubt there is a fine line between player managmenet and outright tanking. But to say that you could convince a number of players 8 weeks out from the end of the season that they would not be playing for the rest of the year when they were not really injured, and not have at least some of them crack the poos is a bit far fetched. Players just want to play footy and none worth their salt would be happy to sit on the sidelines for any period of time unless they were actually injured.

As for west cosat, they had a lot of injuries during 2010. If you compare them to us in 2012, it shows that a developing side doesn't need too many injuries to drop right away.

and then a side that has performed poorly all year throws away a half time lead? well they must be tanking. because they have shown all year they have the ability and mental aptitude to win games of football.


Shadows in every corner isnt there?

I also love the way that if the fans look at the bright side of a loss then that is proof the team was tanking.

Seriously, if the clubs in question sued OER for making such allegations about them, do you think you could even go close to providing enough evidence in a court of law to substantiate your claims?
Do I have undeniable proof that would convict clubs in court al? No I don't but that answer would also apply to Melbourne. 

I'm also not accusing players of deliberately losing or feigning injuries so they missed games. I'm talking about coaches and match committees at clubs (and in some cases with the permission of those at Board level (Melbourne being one of them) so the coach despite a wooden spoon wouldn't be sacked), choosing teams and making positional changes within games each week to make sure their side didn't win so they could gain a priority pick. Melbourne only got caught out because they didn't hide what they were doing and their plan to tank was initiated prior to the season starting rather than halfway through as the other clubs did when their season was shot.

I'm not the only one who believes Collingwood tanked to get Thomas and Pendelbury ...

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/expert-opinion/did-collingwood-tank-its-way-to-a-flag/story-fncqi979-1226440468746 
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Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2012, 01:43:05 AM »
Dean Bailey tells the AFL he didn't order players to lose

    Jon Ralph
    From: Herald Sun
    November 06, 2012


FORMER Melbourne coach Dean Bailey is arguing he is innocent of tanking claims, despite being in the "vault" when football operations manager Chris Connolly reinforced the need to play for draft picks.

The AFL is unveiling its investigative arsenal as it builds its case, warning some Melbourne assistant coaches of severe sanctions if they refuse to be interviewed or are not honest in testimony.

Some Demons officials have been told the AFL can impose life coaching bans, though interviews are not conducted under oath.

Others have been re-interviewed and told that their testimony is inconsistent with those who believe there is evidence of tanking.

While Connolly is under the most heat, Bailey is said to be comfortable with the fact he never instructed coaches or players to deliberately lose games.

He is one of several Melbourne figures who remembers Connolly making his controversial aside in a portable shed at the Junction Oval, dubbed The Vault, after the Port Adelaide win in Round 15, 2009.

While that meeting has been painted as the start of an orchestrated campaign to lose games, the context of that discussion is at the heart of the tanking investigation.

Some, including Bailey, believe the Connolly statement urging the coaching staff not to maximise their high draft picks was a 30-second aside in a lengthy match committee meeting.

They dispute it was a specific meeting held as a call-to-arms to the football department.

Others have accused Connolly of saying words to the effect of, "Make this happen, or you'll all get sacked".

Whether the AFL believes the more generous interpretation, or declares the Connolly statement as evidence of tanking, is the crux of the investigation.

The Herald Sun has reported Bailey, now an Adelaide assistant coach, told the players in mid-2009 some would be played in radically different positions.

Melbourne faces "severe" penalties if found guilty, but will likely have seven days to reply to any AFL findings.

That means Melbourne has a good chance of retaining its No.4 selection and the No.27 pick it needs to secure father-son selection Jack Viney in the November 22 national draft because the investigation will be ongoing.

The AFL Commission meets on November 19.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/dean-bailey-tells-the-afl-he-didnt-order-players-to-lose/story-e6frf9jf-1226511021945

gerkin greg

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #50 on: November 08, 2012, 09:16:47 AM »
Filthy pack of inbreeders

AFL needs to ban this club
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 02:33:23 PM by one-eyed »

Offline tiger101

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #51 on: November 08, 2012, 11:11:42 AM »
Just merge them with Kangaroos and ship them to Tasmania.



Offline Coach

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #52 on: November 08, 2012, 11:15:38 AM »
Just merge them with Kangaroos and ship them to Tasmania.




stuff off we want our own team not Fritzy's Demons

Offline one-eyed

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2012, 01:42:08 AM »
MELBOURNE legend Ron Barassi says the AFL must turn its tanking investigation to other clubs if the Demons are found guilty of deliberately underperforming.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/tanking-probe-must-go-beyond-demons-says-ron-barassi/story-e6frf7jo-1226514305211

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2012, 12:39:50 PM »
I would strip them of there first two picks in this years draft!

Be great to see Melbourne and Adelaide punished for this!

Teach them a lesson. Carlton are lucky not to be investigated!

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #55 on: November 12, 2012, 10:49:48 PM »
Melbourne escapes penalties ahead of next week's draft

    Jon Ralph, Michael Warner
    From: Herald Sun
    November 12, 2012 7:14PM


MELBOURNE has officially dodged a draft bullet and will keep its prized picks in next week's national draft on the Gold Coast.

But Adelaide was last night smacked with a raft of charges over the Kurt Tippett salary cap scandal, and will be hauled before the AFL Commission on Monday.

The besieged Crows could be banned from participating in the next four AFL drafts, with chief executive Steven Trigg and forward Tippett slapped with individual charges alongside former football manager John Reid.

The league's probe into Melbourne's tanking saga is not complete, which means the Demons will not be stripped of critical high selections in next Thursday's national draft.

The Herald Sun understands the Demons were relieved to learn in recent days their picks would remain unscathed because the probe is still weeks from completion.

The league's integrity officers were still speaking with relevant Demons staff even as recently as yesterday.

It means the Demons keep the cherished fourth overall pick in the draft - likely to be hard nut Ollie Wines - as well as father-son selection Jack Viney, already nominated at selection 27.

Melbourne still faces unprecedented penalties but but even if it was charged this week it would need seven days to reply to the AFL's probe, not enough time to strip the club of picks.

There is a growing feeling the league may target individuals guilty of orchestrating the "tanking" that took place, which could see heavy penalty for staffers but less focus on draft sanctions.

The loss of picks this year would have gutted the club given it is in a rebuilding mode, with Wines the perfect building block for coach Mark Neeld and Viney the son of head recruiter Todd Viney.

The Crows have thrown open their books, and after fully cooperating with the league investigation are in effect pleading for mercy from the AFL.

Adelaide coach Brenton Sanderson last week admitting to the Herald Sun the Crows expected to be hit hard with sanctions for the next two national drafts.

Adelaide has acknowledged the charges and said it hoped its frank admissions and history of total adherence to the salary cap and AFL rules would be taken into account by the league.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/melbourne-escapes-penalties-ahead-of-next-weeks-draft/story-e6frf9jf-1226515379853

Edit: added link
« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 10:56:03 PM by one-eyed »
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Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2012, 10:51:58 PM »
well what  a surprise dees will be spared no penalty re: this years draft

Fair chance they will cop jack.

AFL weak pricks

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Offline mightytiges

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #57 on: November 13, 2012, 12:14:55 AM »
well what  a surprise dees will be spared no penalty re: this years draft

Fair chance they will cop jack.

AFL weak pricks
It won't surprise me if the AFL goes soft on the Dees. The AFL will want to avoid opening a Pandora's box by then needing to investigate other clubs over tanking such as Libba's claims about his time at Carlton.
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Offline Penelope

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #58 on: November 13, 2012, 08:20:14 AM »
if the afl had taken away draft picks before the investigation had finished and withouy giving Melbourne adequate time to respond to the findings then they would have left themselves open to legal action.

I would prefer to see action taken against individuals than the club anyway.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

Yahweh? or the great Clawski?

yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Tanking affair darkens for Dees ....... (Age)
« Reply #59 on: November 13, 2012, 11:03:20 AM »
if the afl had taken away draft picks before the investigation had finished and withouy giving Melbourne adequate time to respond to the findings then they would have left themselves open to legal action.

I would prefer to see action taken against individuals than the club anyway.

did you adopt that thinking when the cheats were raped of draft picks or when the Kruzer cup was in full swing.  :shh

Sure you were saying individuals should've been punished not the club
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