The Hardwick Rebuild Is Dead Long Live the Next Rebuild

[Hellenic Tiger]

Our rebuilds need to be major renovations but they are just always work in progress.
Richmond rebuilds are like the Western Ring Road. Never complete always infuriating.

[Francois Jackson]

I don't think we need a "rebuild" as such.

The club did the right thing in bringing in players like Houli, Grigg, Chaplin in a moneyball scenario bc they were upgrades on what we had, the problem is to continue improving we need(ed) to upgrade those types and we don't. I don't have a problem right at this stage of our evolution in having the likes of Pettard, Grigg, Houli on the list as backup, and in a year add Chaplin to that list too. Players like McDonough, Lennon, Helbig, Arnott, Gordon, Elton, Miles, Lloyd need to be given a red hot and fair chance NOW to see if they will be some of those upgrades. If not at least we find out and we can then either move them on first or move on the likes of Pettard, Grigg etc if the aforementioned show something.. Our problem has been that Dimma continues to play these guys who are reasonable as depth players but that have obvious flaws, ahead of the young guys who then become disenchanted and couldn't give a flying stuff. (imo)

This has to stop and has to stop now. Dimma can still salvage this and move fwd with our list and his career but he needs to make the calls now otherwise he will go down with the ship bc players like Grigg, Chaplin,  Edwards, pettard, Newman & Vickery will ultimately let him down. Simply not up to it.

agreed. No need to rebuild. We have a lot out. But we need to keep turning more guys over. Find out if Helbig can play. Trade Batch and Grigg. Someone else will be in our position of 2010 and need to upgrade. E.g. Melbourne.

Not twitch tambling? I'm hoping that's an oversight on your behalf

It's players like him which is why we are a pathetic club

Nahas another fine example. Many called his culling when he was in his so called prime

2 yrs later gone for nothing

Make the calls early and then you get your upgrades

Titch Tambling has more value down at the blue oyster bar than at the draft table

Biggest omosessuale  to don the yellow and black since I can remember

However lets just gift him 200 games.

[Hellenic Tiger]

Can you imagine Titch 200 games the same as Michael Roach.
Says it all really as to why we are an field basket case of a footy club.

My number 8 Esso jumper is groaning with discontent.

[Rampstar]

It's a great thread 
Attack a persons weakness by trolling your own football club. About as courageous as Mcaffers effort on Cotchin 
Mind you Ramps is a master at attacking the exposes nerve

the people who work and earn money from the Richmond Football Club and that includes Players, Coaches and Administrators should be ashamed and embarrassed at the early season form shown by our players. Their wages and salaries are paid for by us the members and sponsors. Every year we turn up, every year we pay money, every year they ask us for more and we pay it, every year their is a new project to fund and we fund it, and every year for the past 34 years our players and administators who are paid by us FAIL US!

If you want to attack me for exposing the weakness thats fine, if you want to attack me for trolling the club thats fine as well AND I tell you  this its absolutely fine because every year I pay my money and every year when they want more I pay more, and every year, every single year for the last 34 they fail me and you and every other supporter of the club Australia wide.

They should be embarrassed about their performances. In season 2014 its been nothing short of disgraceful and I make no apology for that 

[the claw]

In regards to claws point

Players taken in the national draft are as follows. In regards to my point:  we are apparently writing these types off - but have they been given six to eighth game in the favoured position to prove themselfs?


09:  griffiths Astbury. Dea. Grimes
10: bachelor. Helbig.
11:  Elton. Arnot. Ohanlon. 
12:  mcintosh. McBean.  Mcdonuts. Williams.
13:  Gordon. Llyod. Bannfield. Thomas.

nd picks since jackson has been there after the first round

05 hughes 24, casserley 40.
06 edwards 26, connors 58, peterson 60, collins 73.
07 putt 51,
08 26 post, hislop 58 (m),
09 griffiths, astbury 35, dea 44, taylor 51, webberley 67, nason 71 (m),
10 batchelor 30, helbig 47, macdonald 51, derickx 63 (m).
11 elton 26, arnot 55,
12 mcintosh 31, mcbean 33, mcdonough 42.
13 gordon 50 (m), lloyd 66 (m).

if just 50% of thses blokes had or were to make it it would mean another 13 decent to very good players on our list and we dont have problems. imo there is not one proven player among the lot of em.
edwards has over 100 games but is mediocre. griffiths and astbury are only now starting to show a bit but have miles to go.  i wouldnt like to comment on players after 2010 as they deserve time imo but none have made it or established themselves.

failing to find our fair share of solid to very good players in the nd is killing us and making it very hard to build GOOD depth and find enough quality. we just have to fix this area.

[the claw]

I don't think we need a "rebuild" as such.

The club did the right thing in bringing in players like Houli, Grigg, Chaplin in a moneyball scenario bc they were upgrades on what we had, the problem is to continue improving we need(ed) to upgrade those types and we don't. I don't have a problem right at this stage of our evolution in having the likes of Pettard, Grigg, Houli on the list as backup, and in a year add Chaplin to that list too. Players like McDonough, Lennon, Helbig, Arnott, Gordon, Elton, Miles, Lloyd need to be given a red hot and fair chance NOW to see if they will be some of those upgrades. If not at least we find out and we can then either move them on first or move on the likes of Pettard, Grigg etc if the aforementioned show something.. Our problem has been that Dimma continues to play these guys who are reasonable as depth players but that have obvious flaws, ahead of the young guys who then become disenchanted and couldn't give a flying stuff. (imo)

This has to stop and has to stop now. Dimma can still salvage this and move fwd with our list and his career but he needs to make the calls now otherwise he will go down with the ship bc players like Grigg, Chaplin,  Edwards, pettard, Newman & Vickery will ultimately let him down. Simply not up to it.

pretty much agree.
i look at it as,  we are very much still in rebuild about half way thru ive said s much plenty of times. but got ahead of ourselves. our problem is we take mature players to fix or improve a problem  we have now, which is fine,  but in taking that mature player we do nothing about the longer term.
an example of this is hampson.
26 yr old back up mostly, we keep orren and our nuber one ruckman in maric is 28 and battling injuries.  for sure take a hampson type but ffs rookie or draft a promising kid who looks capable of doing what ivan does.
i can do this scenario with just about every mature player we have taken.
and its all well and good me saying this but if you cant get a decent percentage of your nd picks rights it becomes almost impossible to do this. it leaves just one option and thats take an inordinate amount of mature types.

[Rampstar]

the recruiting has shown very little ability in picking 2nd, 3rd or 4th round draft selection prospects who turn out to be any good. All they do is play safe with R1 selections and then sit back and claim they have had some huge success. Picking 1st round selections is easy. I remember even in here in the predraft phantom draft discussion me, gerkin and afew others wanted Dunstan who is a top quality player in the making. Anyone can pick 1st round selections.

[Hellenic Tiger]

It's a great thread 
Attack a persons weakness by trolling your own football club. About as courageous as Mcaffers effort on Cotchin 
Mind you Ramps is a master at attacking the exposes nerve

the people who work and earn money from the Richmond Football Club and that includes Players, Coaches and Administrators should be ashamed and embarrassed at the early season form shown by our players. Their wages and salaries are paid for by us the members and sponsors. Every year we turn up, every year we pay money, every year they ask us for more and we pay it, every year their is a new project to fund and we fund it, and every year for the past 34 years our players and administators who are paid by us FAIL US!

If you want to attack me for exposing the weakness thats fine, if you want to attack me for trolling the club thats fine as well AND I tell you  this its absolutely fine because every year I pay my money and every year when they want more I pay more, and every year, every single year for the last 34 they fail me and you and every other supporter of the club Australia wide.

They should be embarrassed about their performances. In season 2014 its been nothing short of disgraceful and I make no apology for that 

 

[eliminator]

the recruiting has shown very little ability in picking 2nd, 3rd or 4th round draft selection prospects who turn out to be any good. All they do is play safe with R1 selections and then sit back and claim they have had some huge success. Picking 1st round selections is easy. I remember even in here in the predraft phantom draft discussion me, gerkin and afew others wanted Dunstan who is a top quality player in the making. Anyone can pick 1st round selections.

Picking first round picks should be easy but that has not always proven right in the case of this club

[tigs2011]

I don't think we need a "rebuild" as such.

The club did the right thing in bringing in players like Houli, Grigg, Chaplin in a moneyball scenario bc they were upgrades on what we had, the problem is to continue improving we need(ed) to upgrade those types and we don't. I don't have a problem right at this stage of our evolution in having the likes of Pettard, Grigg, Houli on the list as backup, and in a year add Chaplin to that list too. Players like McDonough, Lennon, Helbig, Arnott, Gordon, Elton, Miles, Lloyd need to be given a red hot and fair chance NOW to see if they will be some of those upgrades. If not at least we find out and we can then either move them on first or move on the likes of Pettard, Grigg etc if the aforementioned show something.. Our problem has been that Dimma continues to play these guys who are reasonable as depth players but that have obvious flaws, ahead of the young guys who then become disenchanted and couldn't give a flying stuff. (imo)

This has to stop and has to stop now. Dimma can still salvage this and move fwd with our list and his career but he needs to make the calls now otherwise he will go down with the ship bc players like Grigg, Chaplin,  Edwards, pettard, Newman & Vickery will ultimately let him down. Simply not up to it.

agreed. No need to rebuild. We have a lot out. But we need to keep turning more guys over. Find out if Helbig can play. Trade Batch and Grigg. Someone else will be in our position of 2010 and need to upgrade. E.g. Melbourne.

Not twitch tambling? I'm hoping that's an oversight on your behalf

It's players like him which is why we are a pathetic club

Nahas another fine example. Many called his culling when he was in his so called prime

2 yrs later gone for nothing

Make the calls early and then you get your upgrades

Titch Tambling has more value down at the blue oyster bar than at the draft table

Biggest omosessuale  to don the yellow and black since I can remember

However lets just gift him 200 games.

free agent is he not. Hopefully he leaves on his own accord.

[Judge Roughneck]

In regards to claws point

Players taken in the national draft are as follows. In regards to my point:  we are apparently writing these types off - but have they been given six to eighth game in the favoured position to prove themselfs?


09:  griffiths Astbury. Dea. Grimes
10: bachelor. Helbig.
11:  Elton. Arnot. Ohanlon. 
12:  mcintosh. McBean.  Mcdonuts. Williams.
13:  Gordon. Llyod. Bannfield. Thomas.

nd picks since jackson has been there after the first round

05 hughes 24, casserley 40.
06 edwards 26, connors 58, peterson 60, collins 73.
07 putt 51,
08 26 post, hislop 58 (m),
09 griffiths, astbury 35, dea 44, taylor 51, webberley 67, nason 71 (m),
10 batchelor 30, helbig 47, macdonald 51, derickx 63 (m).
11 elton 26, arnot 55,
12 mcintosh 31, mcbean 33, mcdonough 42.
13 gordon 50 (m), lloyd 66 (m).

if just 50% of thses blokes had or were to make it it would mean another 13 decent to very good players on our list and we dont have problems. imo there is not one proven player among the lot of em.
edwards has over 100 games but is mediocre. griffiths and astbury are only now starting to show a bit but have miles to go.  i wouldnt like to comment on players after 2010 as they deserve time imo but none have made it or established themselves.

failing to find our fair share of solid to very good players in the nd is killing us and making it very hard to build GOOD depth and find enough quality. we just have to fix this area.

Given the issue at hand is hard wick, how much point is there going back to the times of Cleve Hughes and travel casserly

[Hard Roar Tiger]

It's a great thread 
Attack a persons weakness by trolling your own football club. About as courageous as Mcaffers effort on Cotchin 
Mind you Ramps is a master at attacking the exposes nerve

the people who work and earn money from the Richmond Football Club and that includes Players, Coaches and Administrators should be ashamed and embarrassed at the early season form shown by our players. Their wages and salaries are paid for by us the members and sponsors. Every year we turn up, every year we pay money, every year they ask us for more and we pay it, every year their is a new project to fund and we fund it, and every year for the past 34 years our players and administators who are paid by us FAIL US!

If you want to attack me for exposing the weakness thats fine, if you want to attack me for trolling the club thats fine as well AND I tell you  this its absolutely fine because every year I pay my money and every year when they want more I pay more, and every year, every single year for the last 34 they fail me and you and every other supporter of the club Australia wide.

They should be embarrassed about their performances. In season 2014 its been nothing short of disgraceful and I make no apology for that 

Oh cry me a river ya drama queen.....
Weren't you the same guy that wanted a personal letter before you joined? I'd say your membership is highly conditional on your ego getting massaged.

[Jackstar is back!!!]

Way too much spin at Punt Rd
Players not good enough
Club falls in love with them
Agree with Ramps 100%

[YellowandBlackBlood]

Way too much spin at Punt Rd
Players not good enough
Club falls in love with them
Agree with Ramps 100%

I don't mind the occasional spin but it must be backed up by decent performances.  The problem is if all you get is spin, it starts to sicken you.
The players are either not good enough or not well coached - it has to be one of the two or both.  I suspect it is far more the former as I'm sure Hardwick doesn't sit there and say don't chase, harass, block for your teammate, be front and square at contests, run hard and make position for your teammate to kick it to you, stand up for your captain when he is being consistently scragged, run away from contests, stay in front of your man etc etc.......

[big tone]

the recruiting has shown very little ability in picking 2nd, 3rd or 4th round draft selection prospects who turn out to be any good. All they do is play safe with R1 selections and then sit back and claim they have had some huge success. Picking 1st round selections is easy. I remember even in here in the predraft phantom draft discussion me, gerkin and afew others wanted Dunstan who is a top quality player in the making. Anyone can pick 1st round selections.

Picking first round picks should be easy but that has not always proven right in the case of this club

In all honesty, and not just because we have been putrid this year, IMO our first round draft picks have been pretty average-
Vickory, have to say he has been a 5 out of 10, plays some good games but way to inconsistent.
Cotch, star, 10, our only genuine A grader.
Dusty, massive tick for mine, 8, and could be anything.
Conca, been ok at best, sh4t kick, but has a go, 6
Ellis, from day one I haven't rated him, gets easy kicks and even then goes sides with them most of the time, to scared to make a mistake, 4
Vlastuin, big tick until the other night, seemed like a different player, but still a tick, 7
Lennon, to early to tell, but I'll be honest, looks to be a long way off, and that's ok.
So that's one star and two very good players out of 7 so far.
Still a chance for that to change but if I'm honest with myself I'm only hopefully about maybe one more.
Just my take.