Richmond to wear Dreamtime guernsey against Hawthorn.

[Penelope]

A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era.  Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont.  Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change.  Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think

I have to say I fall into this age category and I find your generalisation extremely offensive and wrong. You have no clue about my values, how I got them and what I think. You've made a broad assumption that is unfair and unreasonable.

But FWIW I have indigenous friends, who are very close friends, I love them like family. They are friends not because of their race but because they are great people. And when I've been with them I've been in the middle of and witnessed vilification towards them and me for that matter first hand. So I get it and it disgusts me.

I don't like Adam Goodes, haven't for a long time (read a number of years) because of the way he plays the game. That has nothing to do with his race

Would I or do I boo him? No I don't, I wouldn't because I simply cannot see the point.

No, I didn't like the way he handle the 13 y.o. girl situation. He missed a great opportunity to make the issue soemthing that we all could learn from but instead IMHO (and last time I checked we are still allowed to have 'em) his actions intentional or not made it an us versus them situation.

And no I also didn't like a number of comments he made while he was Australian of the Year and I am not just talking about his AOY acceptance, I am referring to comments he made over the course of 12 months. There are a number that were divisive and to suggest because reasonable thinking folks are upset by it and dare question it that they must racists is unjust and imflammatory. Are we  not allowed to be upset and call those comments/actions into question? I would think if we want to have a proper debate then everyone must be prepared to listen and speak without fear of some sort of retribution on both sides

As I said whether he realises it or not his words and recently actions have polarised people. And it would appear that if you question anything on this you are a racists and that's simply not fair or realistic. 

I am not disputing for one minute that this country have treated our indigenous Australians terribly. Govt after govt have stuffed up by constantly throwing money at something thinking it will fix all the problems. It didn't, it actually made things worse

This isn't and shouldn't be an us versus them issue but that appears to be what people are wanting to make it. Seems it's easier to divide and point the finger of blame rather than be prepared to debate the issues because of the fear of offending people. People argue that Adam Goodes challenges people and that people don't like those challenges. I'd say it cuts both ways.

This should be something where all us need to be prepared to work together, listen, discuss with the goal of wanting to improve things, to find solutions and be proud of our diverse cultures of the past and the future.

what exactly did goodes say in his acceptance speech that people take issue with?

Here is the speech transcript.

“It’s an honour to win an award for doing stuff that you love and that you believe in. For me, I chose that life is all about actions and interactions. I believe that our choices and how we interact with each other creates our relationships and this in turn creates the environment that we live in.

Our environment shapes our communities which then shapes the country that we all live in. Growing up as an indigenous Australian I have experienced my fair share of racism. While it has been difficult a lot of the time, it has also taught me a lot and also shaped my values and what I believe in today. I believe racism is a community issue which we all need to address and that’s why racism stops with me.

There are always two ways we can look at a situation. We can choose to get angry. Or not. We can choose to help others. Or not. Or choose to be offended. Or not. We can keep our silence or educate ourselves and others about racism and minority populations.

It is not just about taking responsibility for your own actions but speaking to your mates when they take out their anger on their loved ones, minority groups or make racist remarks. It means treating people the way you want to be treated, whether that’s your manners, the way you talk to people, whether they are your loved ones or the person serving your dinner. It’s about how you choose to give back and make a difference to those around you, your community or your country that goes outside of just yourself.

I believe we are all connected whether we like it or not. We are all equal and the same in so many ways. My hope is that we as a nation can break down the silos between races, break down those stereotypes of minority populations, indigenous populations and all other minority groups. I hope we can be proud of our heritage regardless of the colour of our skin and be proud to be Australian.

I’m not here to tell you what to think, or how to act to raise your children. All I’m here to do is tell you about my experiences and hope you choose to be aware of your actions and interactions so that together we can eliminate racism.

I’m so grateful for this award and this honour, however the real reward is when everyone is talking to their mates, to their families and their children, having those conversations and educating others about racism. What it looks like, how hurtful and how pointless it is and how we can eliminate it.

The ultimate reward is when all Australians see each other as equals and treat each other as equals. To me, everything is about people and the choices we make. I believe it’s the people and the interactions between us that makes this country so special. Thank you so much and have a great Australia Day.”

[Penelope]

Thats an interesting read smokey and highlights one thing i have learned when it comes to indigenous affairs  - that many black fellas take umbrance at those who have not walked in their shoes, having the presumption to speak on their behalf and even worse, tell them what is best for them, even if their motives are good.

reading that blog, i couldnt help but see references that could easily have been directed to some of the posts being made here on the eissue

[🏅Dooks]

A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era.  Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont.  Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change.  Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think

I have to say I fall into this age category and I find your generalisation extremely offensive and wrong. You have no clue about my values, how I got them and what I think. You've made a broad assumption that is unfair and unreasonable.

But FWIW I have indigenous friends, who are very close friends, I love them like family. They are friends not because of their race but because they are great people. And when I've been with them I've been in the middle of and witnessed vilification towards them and me for that matter first hand. So I get it and it disgusts me.

I don't like Adam Goodes, haven't for a long time (read a number of years) because of the way he plays the game. That has nothing to do with his race

Would I or do I boo him? No I don't, I wouldn't because I simply cannot see the point.

No, I didn't like the way he handle the 13 y.o. girl situation. He missed a great opportunity to make the issue soemthing that we all could learn from but instead IMHO (and last time I checked we are still allowed to have 'em) his actions intentional or not made it an us versus them situation.

And no I also didn't like a number of comments he made while he was Australian of the Year and I am not just talking about his AOY acceptance, I am referring to comments he made over the course of 12 months. There are a number that were divisive and to suggest because reasonable thinking folks are upset by it and dare question it that they must racists is unjust and imflammatory. Are we  not allowed to be upset and call those comments/actions into question? I would think if we want to have a proper debate then everyone must be prepared to listen and speak without fear of some sort of retribution on both sides

As I said whether he realises it or not his words and recently actions have polarised people. And it would appear that if you question anything on this you are a racists and that's simply not fair or realistic. 

I am not disputing for one minute that this country have treated our indigenous Australians terribly. Govt after govt have stuffed up by constantly throwing money at something thinking it will fix all the problems. It didn't, it actually made things worse

This isn't and shouldn't be an us versus them issue but that appears to be what people are wanting to make it. Seems it's easier to divide and point the finger of blame rather than be prepared to debate the issues because of the fear of offending people. People argue that Adam Goodes challenges people and that people don't like those challenges. I'd say it cuts both ways.

This should be something where all us need to be prepared to work together, listen, discuss with the goal of wanting to improve things, to find solutions and be proud of our diverse cultures of the past and the future.

No possible to speak on this without fear of retribution. The afl and media and pc do gooders have set the agenda. If one is racist according to them then you are guilty on the spot. No questions asked.

He has not had an affair with a team mates wife

Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....

Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!

Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....

As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.

I'm left of centre and don't fall into the age profile stated on this thread. Don't generalise and lump people into a category.  It only makes your argument look even less measured and I'll informed than it probably should be.

You need to learn how to use an apostrophe.

I guess that makes you Gen Y then?

 

Nah a late gen x. But 65 would be proud of my punctuation.  Who would of thunk it

[Eat_em_Alive]

Does any percentage from the Dreamtime jumpers sale proceeds go towards any foundations?

I might pick one up tonight

[WilliamPowell]

what exactly did goodes say in his acceptance speech that people take issue with?

I can't speak for others al, I think I made the point there are others things he said while AOY that I have issue with.

I've re-read the transcript also re-read his handover speech when he handed the award over to Rosie Battie this year. And you know what regarding changing the constitution I agree with him 100% and more.

But on the day of him getting the awared in news reports he is quoted as also having said this:

Goodes admitted Sunday’s Australia Day celebrations prompted mixed emotions after he learnt the full story of the country’s settlement in regards to his own heritage when he was younger.

At the ceremony, Goodes admitted Australia Day celebrations prompted mixed emotions.

“There was a lot of anger, a lot of sorrow, for this day and very much the feeling of invasion day,” he said.

“But in the last five years, I’ve really changed my perception of what is Australia Day, of what it is to be Australian and for me, it’s about celebrating the positives, that we are still here as indigenous people, our culture is one of the longest surviving cultures in the world, over 40,000 years.

“That is something we need to celebrate and all Australians need to celebrate.

“There are people out there thinking that today is a great day for Australia — well, it is.

“It’s a day we celebrate over 225 years of European settlement and right now, that’s who we are as a nation but we also need to acknowledge our fantastic Aboriginal history of over 40,000 years and just know that some Aboriginal people out there today are feeling a little bit angry, a little bit soft in the heart today because of that, and that’s OK as well.”

From
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/adam-goodes-australian-of-the-year-speech-turned-fans-against-sydney-swans-champ-but-is-it-really-divisive/story-fni5f22o-1227463023081

Which the HUN reposted yesterday. Again IIRC from last year I think the bits I highlighted are the things that upset people especially on social media. Not helped by the media who last year reported his comments one way and have now appeared to do a complete 360

All about perception and how things get received I suppose

[WilliamPowell]

Does any percentage from the Dreamtime jumpers sale proceeds go towards any foundations?

I might pick one up tonight

I know for the actual Dreamtime round a % of the sales goes to the Kooranji Institute

And overall 5% of total merch sales go to the AMF

[Yeahright]

Cheers smokey, that was a good read. Sounds much like my friend who tries to keep out of the conversation because he feels most people just expect him to side with Goodes. He either feels like he's being attacked by people who disagree with Goodes (even though he holds the same or very similar opinions to those people) or that the other side just want him to confirm what they believe is racist behaviour.

[Smokey]

Have a look at his blog from 5th August last year titled "Adam Goodes - ensuring racism as a sport ".  Funny how it's played out since then.

[Diocletian]

Thats an interesting read smokey and highlights one thing i have learned when it comes to indigenous affairs  - that many black fellas take umbrance at those who have not walked in their shoes, having the presumption to speak on their behalf and even worse, tell them what is best for them, even if their motives are good.

"White Saviour Syndrome"

[🏅Dooks]

Anyways......Forget the pc do gooders. There's a game of footy tonight 

[Eat_em_Alive]

Does any percentage from the Dreamtime jumpers sale proceeds go towards any foundations?

I might pick one up tonight

I know for the actual Dreamtime round a % of the sales goes to the Kooranji Institute

And overall 5% of total merch sales go to the AMF

Thanks 

[Stalin]

Some pinko bird:

"Clear cover, for those with racism in their heart"

 

[Yeahright]

"ADAM Goodes insists he is unperturbed by the incessant booing he cops from opposition crowds during games, choosing to view it as a mark of respect."

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-09-17/dont-lose-the-boos#sthash.TX6jLLLD.dpuf

Back in 2014, but some enlightened people with over inflated opinions are adamant it's racist because it started after the war dance

[Stalin]

Gill wrote a letter how cute

[(•))(©™]

Poofter decision