Fitness / Conditioning / Luke Meehan appointed Physical Performance Manager [merged]

[Gigantor]

If we are paying the full soft cap and say more resources are being put into player development or leadership etc rather than say the health and fitness side, which is better?
If there’s an X amount we have to spend how would people here split that up?

[TigerLand]

I think vast majority needs to be in player development. Especially if we have 5 top draft picks this year. It's essential those boys become the foundation of our list for the next 10 years.

[WilliamPowell]

I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play...

So again serious question

Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in  the soft cap tax

So how much should we over spend by?  Put a number on it

Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...

[lamington]

I think vast majority needs to be in player development. Especially if we have 5 top draft picks this year. It's essential those boys become the foundation of our list for the next 10 years.

My take on it is it should be the other way around. If you have top talent in theory they don’t need to be coached as much so they need to just stay on the park. So we need the best fitness and conditioning staff. Eg. Gibcus If you have lots of players outside of first round I’d say we need development as they have less “footy smarts” eg. Balta.

[Diocletian]

I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play...

So again serious question

Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in  the soft cap tax

So how much should we over spend by?  Put a number on it

Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...

Spending over the cap should improve our football department which in turn should improve our team and guess what - if you start winning, you tend to make higher profits....

[Gigantor]

Not sure if it’s  been mentioned but how many clubs last year went over the soft cap limit and who were they?

[WilliamPowell]

I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play...

So again serious question

Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in  the soft cap tax

So how much should we over spend by?  Put a number on it

Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...

Spending over the cap should improve our football department which in turn should improve our team and guess what - if you start winning, you tend to make higher profits....

You didn't answer the question, how much should they go over the cap by? It's not a hard question.

Not sure why you won't put a figure on it?

Yes winning can increase profits but would it be enough to cover the extra costs?

[Diocletian]

I'd imagine just about every club spends the full amount in their soft cap, the point here is that we're a big club with a huge membership base and we should be able to afford to go over the soft cap and pay the the tax.....unless there are other factors at play...

So again serious question

Let's go down the path of paying over the cap. Remembering for nearly dollar over we have to pay the equivalent in  the soft cap tax

So how much should we over spend by?  Put a number on it

Keep in mind also what our average profits have been over the 4 years because overspend by $500k then it is $1mil off the bottom line etc... so being profitable is at risk ...

Spending over the cap should improve our football department which in turn should improve our team and guess what - if you start winning, you tend to make higher profits....

You didn't answer the question, how much should they go over the cap by? It's not a hard question.

Not sure why you won't put a figure on it?

Yes winning can increase profits but would it be enough to cover the extra costs?

Why am I required to give you an exact figure?How much profit did we make during the dynasty years? Think it was over 4 million in each of 2018 & 2019   I'm sure that would more than cover it....or do you think I'm suggesting we go 10 million over or something ......why are you so sceptical/concerned about it anyway  if you reckon everything is hunky dory and the redevelopment isn't a factor...or don't you think a club our size could manage it and why don't you? How much do think some other clubs are going over by and why can they but we can't?

[WilliamPowell]

Why am I required to give you an exact figure?

You and granted others keep saying we should overspend on the cap but no one seems to be prepared to give a number. It's fine to say overspend but surely there needs to be a limit

So I asked the question. TBH I am not sure why you seem to be offended that I asked.

How much profit did we make during the dynasty years? Think it was over 4 million in each of 2018 & 2019   I'm sure that would more than cover it

How do you come up with profits from 5-6 years ago will “more than cover it” in 2024 or beyond??

Our  “dynasty years” I would say were 2017 to 2020. The soft cap was slashed by HQ in 2021so anything prior to that is not really relevant

Here are the Profits 2017 to 2023:
2017 $3.1 mil
2018 $4.2 mil
2019 $4.1 mil
2020 $217k (included $10.8 mil in job keeper)
2021 $3.2 mil (includes $3.7 job keeper and state govt grant for the redevelopment of $2 mil
2022 $2.2 mil (includes $8mil state govt funding for the redevelopment)
2023 $2.3 mil

So yes the 2 seasons you mentioned $4mil profits were recorded but a fair whack of that was used to finance 2020 with the help of job keeper. 

So far we have received over $15mil from the State Govt for the redevelopment. That money cannot be spent on anything else but the redevelopment. Ditto with any funding from the federal government. Any monies through the Aust Sports Foundation (FTF now the Strong & Bold Foundation) can only be used for the redevelopment.

It was even mentioned in the 2023 financials that the 2023 result included “significant contributions to the redevelopment”. Again this means those funds cannot be used for anything but the redevelopment. I really hope that people understand that. You may not like it but there are legal conditions attached to those funds

or do you think I'm suggesting we go 10 million over or something ......

No, I don’t but I have no idea how you or anyone else thinks we should over spend by. Over spend by $500k and it costs you $1mil. Over spend by $1 mil and it costs you $2mil

During the course of this season I have read people wanting contracted assistant coaches sacked, the magic man sacked, we lost Matt Clark so use his wage etc …and have used we are big club we can afford it without considering the ramifications of doing it. People see the cash in the bank figure and think it can just be spent on anything. Well guess what it can’t.

why are you so sceptical/concerned about it anyway  if you reckon everything is hunky dory and the redevelopment isn't a factor...or don't you think a club our size could manage it and why don't you?

The redevelopment isn’t a factor because the funds received for the development aren’t available for use for anything but the redevelopment.

I actually think the Club is doing the right thing by not over spending especially in 2024 when we’ve had a horrific season on field because it will impact on the bottom line. Drop in membership, low crowds… let’s see in a couple of months where things land.

As I’ve said many times we pay the full soft cap the issue isn’t whether we should over spend but what are we spending it on. Are we spending in the right areas. My personal view is that we haven’t and I’ve said multiple times that but no one ever acknowledges that.

Bottom line is none of us have any idea where the soft cap is being spread we are just guessing.

How much do think some other clubs are going over by and why can they but we can't?

It has been well documented only 2 Clubs have over spent the soft cap since it was slashed and paid the soft cap tax. And for both it has only been for one season

They are Hawthorn who had to pay Clarkson over a million bucks to sit on his backside.

Essendon is the other because of the payout to Rutten

Up until the end of 2023 no other CLub has over spent.

[Diocletian]

I mentioned the dynasty years profits as a reference to the kind of profits we can expect when we're successful - which is the pay off when you invest  in the football department....as we're a Football Club first & foremost that should be the priority as everything else flows from that..dunno why such a supposedly big club with recent huge success, record breaking membership & attendances should be penny pinching as if we're still in the midst of lockdowns & lay-offs.......

[WilliamPowell]

I mentioned the dynasty years profits as a reference to the kind of profits we can expect when we're successful - which is the pay off when you invest  in the football department....as we're a Football Club first & foremost that should be the priority as everything else flows from that..dunno why such a supposedly big club with recent huge success, record breaking membership & attendances should be penny pinching as if we're still in the midst of lockdowns & lay-offs.......

Fair call but as you and many on here have pointed out the dynasty era is over and we are in for a lot of pain for a period of time. So the profits are not necessarily going to be there short term. Our record membership days are done short term, we lost around 7k members on 2024, that's approx $200k on top of that a number who remained dropped their type of membership down. Lower home crowds, could cost anywhere up to a $500k to $1mil....

As for penny pinching, I don't think being fiscally responsible is such a bad thing (yes the ex accountant in me talking). It is a very fine line

Finally, I hope people understand what is covered under the soft cap. It is much more than the people in it.

[Hard Roar Tiger]

I don’t think it should be necessary while Yze is coach. Surely he’s on hundred’s of thousands less than Dimma? Where’s those savings gone? I am an advocate of a temporary over spending of the cap to rebalance our costs - ie. spend at the cap now and should be have success then pay out a bonus to coach or coaches which becomes the overspend. The overspend becomes self generating because success bring in revenue and in turn profit.

[Francois Jackson]

I think the pies went over the cap soon after a flag as well. They def were on record speaking about getting better and utilizing their profits.

Also not sure anyone suggested using government funds, but that's not all of the surplus or redevelopment funds we had now is it.

I really believe we have stuffed this up,. The delays of punt road  have eaten into all our profits. As a result, we have had to skim, and not invest where we should have or pay good money to good operators.

The crowds have disappeared because of the way the club has fallen apart. Hiring blokes like Meehan was not a good look. Many on this site knew it and its cost the club a year of injuries and fallen profits.

[WilliamPowell]

Apologies I got the estimated drop in total members wrong. We are only down just 3k from last year

[WilliamPowell]

I don’t think it should be necessary while Yze is coach. Surely he’s on hundred’s of thousands less than Dimma? Where’s those savings gone? I am an advocate of a temporary over spending of the cap to rebalance our costs - ie. spend at the cap now and should be have success then pay out a bonus to coach or coaches which becomes the overspend. The overspend becomes self generating because success bring in revenue and in turn profit.

I would think the cost of 2 new assistants would have been covered by the Dimma savings

 We replaced Matt Clark so no saving there.

They bought in 2 new coaches to the VFL program, so some of the savings would have gone there

I think the pies went over the cap soon after a flag as well. They def were on record speaking about getting better and utilizing their profits.

Also not sure anyone suggested using government funds, but that's not all of the surplus or redevelopment funds we had now is it.

I really believe we have stuffed this up,. The delays of punt road  have eaten into all our profits. As a result, we have had to skim, and not invest where we should have or pay good money to good operators.

The crowds have disappeared because of the way the club has fallen apart. Hiring blokes like Meehan was not a good look. Many on this site knew it and its cost the club a year of injuries and fallen profits.

Frankie just found an article about the Pies on Reddit, it suggests they are planning on overspending by $500k in 2025 and the tax on that would be $375k, so total cost is $875k

I'm not sure what you mean by "that's not all of the surplus or redevelopment funds we had now is it."

The redevelopment funds are the redevelopment funds. Club has built up its cash reserves to enable it to put an amout towards the redevelopment which they have said they were going to do. They want to minimise the need to borrow.  That's smart business. They actually been very smart generating income on their cash reserves. But any income generated (interest) on the funds received from the govt must be put towards to the redevelopment

The single biggest issue with the redevelopment is the fact that they still haven't started it. Even allowing for the delays caused by the court case bought on by people trying to block the demolitions the JD stand it should have started by now.

Having said that and I've said this many times I really don't see any connect between the redevelopment and the club not over spending on the soft cap. I get people don't like it but I get why they've chosen not to. To this former accountant says it makes sense.

But I'll revisit it again after we know  what sort of profit the Club makes after the horror show that was season 2024