Let's deal with facts.
Vickery had a good year in 2011 (36 goals), was injured in 2012 (7 goals 9 games) and had an ok year in 2013 (27 goals).
He still managed 23 last year from 12 games.
Second (twice) and third in our goal kicking in those 3 years.
Ottens kicked 46 in 2001 (Second in goalkicking), 27 in 2002 (2nd), only 10 games (12 goals) in 2003, and 16 from 18 games in 2004 (4th) before being traded.
Not a huge amount between them.
Ok TBR.
Ottens was a better ruckman TBR. Didn't have his old man at the club as a boxing coach either.
Whilst Vickery hasn't had the same off field misdemeanours as Ottens did, Ottens had an upside where was at least competitive on the field bar for latish to late 2004 IMHO when it became obvious he was not going to stay despite the future change in coach.
Furthermore Spud suspended him for his misdemeanours. As I have said Vickery off field has not caused trouble or none that I can think of but Dimma seems to have put a protective cone around him despite his on field ineptitude and he seems to ignore it.
Sadly like Spud, Dimma will exit in the same awful way but you reap what you sow. That's for another thread to be discussed passionately.
If and its a big if IMHO a new coach comes to Punt Rd/ or he finds himself elsewhere and he performs to a required standard then again I feel the slur is on him not Dimma as others perform adequately under the same regime despite its shortcomings and we all know the team is bigger than any one individual in the team. Your job is to play, should it matter who the coach is? There is that moral obligation to think of. For all intents Rance may walk out on the club later in the year but can Vickery look Rance in the eye and say he tried like Rance did? Or any one of his teammates out there who bust their gut? Surely not. Coach or not that argument you give with Ottens and Bomber does not stack up but I'll appease you.
I'll also mention we have been critical of Dimma bringing up stats in his post match pressers despite our losses to give our performance a shine but even Ottens stats can tend to deceive. He was a sought after commodity. Was a pick 2 I believe. I somehow don't think Vickery would somehow generate the same interest as Ottens did which suggests to me Ottens wad a far far more better player than Vickery who for me is taking up a spot in the side for an Elton given the number of times he has failed on the big stage. Too many to count. Yet before you tell me Ottens was a naturally more gifted footballer and therefore we need to give Vickery the benefit of the doubt but is this argument that Vickery needs to look at and why he should work harder at trying to nail his position during a game to silence his critics rather than having an under fire coach use him to sugar coat his own misgivings.
I'll also add to that Ottens first played in 1998 and at the end of 2004 departed for Geelong.
Vickery first played in 2009 and post season last year I know that he was shopped around as a potential trade but no buyer come forward which suggests to me the industry feels he is not up to the required level. At the end of this season he will be at the stage of his footy life when Ottens left to go to Geelong yet somehow I feel that Ty's on field flaws will ensure he stays with us or worse still for him personally signal the end of his AFL career.
Unfortunantely for Ty the facts and time are stacking up against him and his career at the top level.
