Author Topic: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]  (Read 45403 times)

Online one-eyed

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #315 on: June 26, 2009, 04:22:08 PM »
SEN played a snippet from Cambo just before 4pm. He said we need to follow the examples of Hawthorn and Melbourne (re: play the kids). He also said choosing Jade as caretaker was the right choice by the club.

FooffooValve

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #316 on: June 26, 2009, 04:28:38 PM »
Don't think there are many disagreeing with that.

Online one-eyed

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Learn to look past numbers (Age)
« Reply #317 on: June 27, 2009, 02:06:24 AM »
Just to add to the debate...

Learn to look past numbers
Greg Baum | June 27, 2009

LEIGH Matthews, characteristically blunt, reckons it is hard to see a No. 1 draft pick in Jack Watts. In the two games he has played, Watts has looked overwhelmed. But it must be remembered that he is being held to an impossibly high standard. It is not his standard, but one set by the system. He is being held to the standard of No. 1 draft pick, and all it has come to mean.

If Watts had been drafted at, say, No. 40, he would still be the same man, the same footballer: 18, at school, a junior. But assessments would be different. It would be said that he had played as you might expect of an 18-year-old, part-time, schoolboy footballer thrown into the AFL. It would be said, as his school coach Robert Shaw said, that he was out of his league.

Much is skewed here. The foremost is the system. The draft order is seen as a perfect and immutable hierarchical arrangement of the available talent, from best to worst. The expectation is that the drafted players will be successful more or less in proportion to their draft number.

This ignores many realities. One is that clubs recruit according to their position and needs; Melbourne, too far down the ladder to bother with quick fixes, calculatedly chose a younger player in Watts. This did not stop the expectations piling up.

Another reality is that the draft order is a consensus, not a hierarchy. A third is that even recruiters admit it is only ever right on the day it is made. It is dynamic. From draft day onwards, some improve, some regress, some follow a steady course. Despite all the science now applied, no one can predict who will go which way.

The system is cruel on players, but cruel for recruiters, too. They make their judgments in advance, yet their work is judged retrospectively. Critics might quibble on draft day, then denounce thunderously five years later. Ultimately, it means jobs: ask Terry Wallace.

It is generally held that first-round draftees are guaranteed to become regular footballers. But let's look. We'll ignore the past three drafts, since it is too soon to make conclusive judgements about them, and concentrate on the three before that.

In 2005, Josh Kennedy, Beau Dowler, Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls, Darren Pfeiffer and Max Bailey all were drafted in the top 20. For different reasons, all have struggled to make an impact. Bernie Vince (32), John Anthony (37), Sam Lonergan (50), Joel Patfull (56) and Mathew Stokes (60) are all regulars.

In 2004, John Meesen, Chris Egan, Adam Thomson, Danny Meyer, Cameron Wood and Ryan Willits were all top-20 picks, Brent Prismall (32), Mark LeCras (37), Chris Knights (56), Matthew Egan (62), and James Gwilt (63) not. In 2003, the top 20 included Andrew Walker, Farren Ray, Kepler Bradley, Kane Tenace, David Trotter, Fergus Watts, Josh Willoughby, Billy Morrison and Llane Spaanderman, but not Jed Adcock (33), Mark Blake (38), Ricky Dyson (44), Heath Shaw (48), Daniel Jackson (53), Michael Rischitelli (61) or Shane Tuck (73).

It's gloriously inexact. If you trawl through these lists, every club has made "mistakes", and every club has identified "bargains". In fact, all they have done is make their most informed choice on draft day. The draft is a beginning, not an end.

Even at the pointy end, a certain level of inspired guesswork is necessary. The case in point is the famous 2004 draft, in which Lance Franklin was taken at No. 5, behind Brett Deledio, Jarryd Roughead, Ryan Griffen and Richard Tambling. This, as much as anything, probably cost Wallace his job. Yet on the day, doubt was muted.

Out of this system, each player emerges with a number, and it comes to define him thereafter. It lionises some, condemns others.

Sadly, the clubs are complicit in this....

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/learn-to-look-past-numbers/2009/06/26/1245961404996.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #318 on: June 27, 2009, 02:23:10 AM »
AFL spin

load of rubbish

Offline Stripes

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #319 on: June 27, 2009, 04:14:26 PM »
I would suggest higher draft choices give you a higher chance for picking up a very good player rather than a garrentee of claiming one. A high draft pick enables a club to use all the evidence and previous experience on hand to take a consisently good performer.

What is garrenteed though, if you finish with 4 wins or less, it that you get an extra opportunity to pick up a quality player. This is why, lets speculate, picks 4/18/20 is far more important to a clubs future than picks 6 & 24 etc.

Tanking this year will enable us a better chance to make an educated choice of 5/6 players that could be part of our premiership team in the future. The further you go up the draft peaking order the more speculative your choices become.

Its all about giving yourself the best odds of success

Stripes

Offline Smokey

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #320 on: June 27, 2009, 11:28:33 PM »
So, just to refresh my memory - what week was it again that the Eagles are going to start their tanking strategy?

Worsfold must be livid - players being prepared to win at all costs yet going out and breaking every rule in the game plan by fighting hard as a team for 4 quarters and beating last year's premiers (or any team for that matter).  Players like Natanui, Masten, Selwood would have got no benefit whatsoever from being part of a team that prepared, played and succeeded in that manner.  Heads will definitely roll in the West this week.

FooffooValve

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #321 on: June 28, 2009, 12:13:44 AM »
Yes smokey, dreadfully unprofessional of the Eagles to win a game against the reigning premiers and jeopardise their PP.  ::)

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #323 on: June 28, 2009, 02:01:05 AM »
11 Sydney 20 13 5 8 0 93.72
12 West Coast 16 13 4 9 0 89.44
13 North Melbourne 16 12 4 8 0 76.27
14 Richmond 12 12 3 9 0 79.80
15 Fremantle 12 13 3 10 0 76.17
16 Melbourne 4 13 1 12 0 68.14

Melbourne vs  West Coast
Round 14 Sat 4 July MCG

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #324 on: June 28, 2009, 05:11:18 AM »
Natanui type players is why clubs should tank. Richmond should tank its the best option for us with just afew games left this season.

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #325 on: June 28, 2009, 09:38:21 AM »
gee i cant believe anyone who watched the BIG NAT last night would seriously prefer winning 6 games is as opposed to 4.

What bloody difference does it make. I would rather win 4 and at least show something in the other games we lose as opposed to winning 6 against Freo, Demons, North, Eagles etc etc and get smashed by the other teams at the top end. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!

Woosha is a VERY SMART OPERATOR. Our club can learn a hell of a lot from a club like that.
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Offline big tone

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #326 on: June 28, 2009, 09:45:39 AM »
gee i cant believe anyone who watched the BIG NAT last night would seriously prefer winning 6 games is as opposed to 4.

What bloody difference does it make. I would rather win 4 and at least show something in the other games we lose as opposed to winning 6 against Freo, Demons, North, Eagles etc etc and get smashed by the other teams at the top end. GET REAL PEOPLE!!!

Woosha is a VERY SMART OPERATOR. Our club can learn a hell of a lot from a club like that.
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Online wayne

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #327 on: June 28, 2009, 04:12:52 PM »
Yes smokey, dreadfully unprofessional of the Eagles to win a game against the reigning premiers and jeopardise their PP.  ::)

Very surprised the Eagles won...
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Offline mightytiges

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #328 on: June 28, 2009, 04:14:53 PM »
I would suggest higher draft choices give you a higher chance for picking up a very good player rather than a garrentee of claiming one. A high draft pick enables a club to use all the evidence and previous experience on hand to take a consisently good performer.

What is garrenteed though, if you finish with 4 wins or less, it that you get an extra opportunity to pick up a quality player. This is why, lets speculate, picks 4/18/20 is far more important to a clubs future than picks 6 & 24 etc.

Tanking this year will enable us a better chance to make an educated choice of 5/6 players that could be part of our premiership team in the future. The further you go up the draft peaking order the more speculative your choices become.

Its all about giving yourself the best odds of success

Stripes
Exactly. The problem with Baum's article is he names 6 players in the top 20 who were flops (so supposedly 14 of the 20 weren't) and then 6 players outside the top 20 who made it of the 60 players picked up later on (most drafts go to about pick 80 roughly). It's about playing the odds.
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: IT'S TIME TO GO THE TANK- IT'S OUR ONLY HOPE! [merged]
« Reply #329 on: June 28, 2009, 07:57:23 PM »
Yes smokey, dreadfully unprofessional of the Eagles to win a game against the reigning premiers and jeopardise their PP.  ::)

Very surprised the Eagles won...

Hawthorn woeful