Author Topic: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years [merged]  (Read 38296 times)

gerkin greg

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #75 on: May 06, 2011, 03:56:29 PM »
Depends on what stage of development your club is at. Chris Judd would have done nothing for our club to get us towards a premiership as he will be retiring before we get to that stage. I said I'd like the picks, not the players that West Coast took with those picks. Kennedy would be a very good forward teaming up with Jack plus at Pick 3 we could have had picked a player like Jarrad Grant, Patrick Dangerfield, Cyril Rioli, Jack Grimes or Callan Ward along with Pick 20 getting us Tayte Pears, Andy Otten or Levi Greenwood, etc.

Are you telling me you would prefer Chris Judd for 5-6 years when we are nowhere near ready to play finals instead of Cyril Rioli, Tayte Pears & Josh Kennedy for 10-12 years? That's a quality key forward, key back and freak midfielder/forward, you can build your side around that, not just one player.

We were thereabouts with Carlton when they got Juddy. We went backwards they went forwards. Enough said.
As for the picks, could easily have ended up with a rich collection of first round talent like Tambling, Polo, Meyer & Pattison... I'll take the guaranteed champion every time.
This is his 4th year at Carlton and he's easily got another 3-4 in him with the way he prepares, he's missed 4 games out of a possible 74 and some of those were due to suspension, your argument about him not being around for a premiership is pure garbage. He'll play 150 games for the Blues and they'll have every chance to bag a flag before he retires.
Chris Judd would have done nothing for our club, turn it up.

Offline Infamy

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #76 on: May 06, 2011, 05:10:57 PM »
Depends on what stage of development your club is at. Chris Judd would have done nothing for our club to get us towards a premiership as he will be retiring before we get to that stage. I said I'd like the picks, not the players that West Coast took with those picks. Kennedy would be a very good forward teaming up with Jack plus at Pick 3 we could have had picked a player like Jarrad Grant, Patrick Dangerfield, Cyril Rioli, Jack Grimes or Callan Ward along with Pick 20 getting us Tayte Pears, Andy Otten or Levi Greenwood, etc.

Are you telling me you would prefer Chris Judd for 5-6 years when we are nowhere near ready to play finals instead of Cyril Rioli, Tayte Pears & Josh Kennedy for 10-12 years? That's a quality key forward, key back and freak midfielder/forward, you can build your side around that, not just one player.

We were thereabouts with Carlton when they got Juddy. We went backwards they went forwards. Enough said.
As for the picks, could easily have ended up with a rich collection of first round talent like Tambling, Polo, Meyer & Pattison... I'll take the guaranteed champion every time.
This is his 4th year at Carlton and he's easily got another 3-4 in him with the way he prepares, he's missed 4 games out of a possible 74 and some of those were due to suspension, your argument about him not being around for a premiership is pure garbage. He'll play 150 games for the Blues and they'll have every chance to bag a flag before he retires.
Chris Judd would have done nothing for our club, turn it up.
The Blues were a lot further along than we were in their redevelopment
Judd would have also cost us Cotchin

Online Willy

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #77 on: May 06, 2011, 05:14:45 PM »
I get your argument Infamy, but I would definitely take Judd. Things could have been very different had we got him. He's a once in a lifetime player.

Offline Penelope

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #78 on: May 06, 2011, 05:23:15 PM »
martin probably will be too
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways my ways,” says the Lord.
 
“For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are my ways higher than your ways,
And my thoughts than your thoughts."

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yaw rehto eht dellorcs ti fi daer ot reisae eb dluow tI

gerkin greg

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #79 on: May 06, 2011, 06:17:58 PM »
The Blues were a lot further along than we were in their redevelopment
Judd would have also cost us Cotchin

A lot futher? Bulldust.
It's not about what he would have cost us, it's about what he cost Carlton.
You said you would have kept picks 3, 20 & Kennedy and let a superstar pass you by.
Me, I'd be doing cartwheels with Juddy & big Krooza  :thumbsup

1965

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #80 on: May 06, 2011, 07:44:02 PM »
The Blues were a lot further along than we were in their redevelopment
Judd would have also cost us Cotchin

A lot futher? Bulldust.
It's not about what he would have cost us, it's about what he cost Carlton.
You said you would have kept picks 3, 20 & Kennedy and let a superstar pass you by.
Me, I'd be doing cartwheels with Juddy & big Krooza  :thumbsup

No thanks

Mercenaries both of them.

Offline Infamy

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #81 on: May 06, 2011, 08:31:08 PM »
The Blues were a lot further along than we were in their redevelopment
Judd would have also cost us Cotchin

A lot futher? Bulldust.
It's not about what he would have cost us, it's about what he cost Carlton.
You said you would have kept picks 3, 20 & Kennedy and let a superstar pass you by.
Me, I'd be doing cartwheels with Juddy & big Krooza  :thumbsup
Of course they were further ahead, they had been bottoming out for an eternity
2002 - 16th (no first round pick due to penalties)
2003 - 15th (Pick #2)
2004 - 11th (Pick #9)
2005 - 16th (Pick #1)
2006 - 16th (Pick #1)
2007 - 15th (Pick #1 & 3 (traded for Judd))

That's 5/22 picks almost 25% of the team, they were ready to make their move up the ladder


In our position in 2007 would I have taken #3, #20 & Kennedy over Judd? In a heart beat

Online Francois Jackson

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #82 on: May 06, 2011, 09:59:32 PM »
I'd rather delist or trade Morton and use both picks in the draft as they will get us two good players which is better than 1 good player
We have enough midfield guns, we need depth

ooh please. Scully adds to our depth.

No guarantees those picks will deliver anything descent especially with WGS concessions.

Geelong had the midfield that what won them flags. No one knows who to tag at the Lexus Centre. Swan, Thomas, Pendelbury, Sidebottom the list goes on.

We add Scully to our list and Jack would be creaming his pants at the delivery coming in.

We are 1 A grader short in the back half IMO and when we are pushing near the top if one of Vickery or Gus dont come on we should trade for a top ruckman. This would complete our list.
We already have 3 Top 3 draft picks and 1 Pick 6 making up our midfield, how many other midfield's have comprised of that? The only one I can think of is Carlton and they are still too thin down back and up forward, it is not their midfield holding them back. Our pick this year will be something like 8-16 and our compensation pick if we use it in 2012 will be about pick 17-20 there are plenty of gun players picked up with these selections with the talent networks the way they are in modern recruitment.

Jack Darling went Pick 26, Nathan Fyfe Pick 20, Luke Tapscott Pick 20, Steele Sidebottom Pick 11, Luke Shuey Pick 18, Jackson Trengove Pick 22 ,David Zaharakis Pick 23, Jack Redden Pick 25, Dayne Beams Pick 29, Jack Grimes Pick 14, Callan Ward Pick 19, Jack Riewoldt Pick 13, Shaun Hampson Pick 17, Chris Dawes Pick 28.

Would you be willing to give up a combination of Fyfe/Shuey/Tapscott and Darling/Riewoldt/Dawes just for Scully? I certainly wouldn't, just like I would prefer Pick 3, 20 & Josh Kennedy to Chris Judd.

We could have two of these players with those picks which would go a long way towards fixing our depth in areas we are weaker, just like Carlton up forward and down back. Not to mention it should be easier to balance the TPP with some players like the ones I listed there rather than another player like Scully who will demand massive money. West Coast only had Judd, Kerr & Cousins as their absolute superstar mids, potentially we have more than that already.

Of course you need to back your recruiters, although ours have done pretty well with our 1st round picks since 2006 so I'd be willing to back them in.
The thing is you are not only taking the chance to get more than 1 gun player, but you are creating a more even team over the park and not putting your eggs in one basket. What if Judd/Scully was to do their knee? Your entire investment is damaged rather than perhaps only one of two or one of three going down. Even now Scully is injured and may walk out of the club at the end of the year, that's a massive loss where as with more than one player you'd still have something left. Sure Collingwood has their elite players in the midfield, but the rest of their side is so even across the ground, the Saints who are weak at the bottom end of their 22 have had nothing but failure at the last hurdle.

Each side you listed has only 4 or 5 elite mids, when we already have Lids, Cotchin, Martin, Foley & potentially Conca. That's already 4-5, so do we really need to trade away 2-3 first rounders to add another to that list? Other than the A grade mids to build the enginer room around, you really do need a good 10-12 quality midfielders to have a successful side. Multiple first rounders would be a much better way to get there than just trying to get another elite player. I'd rather we traded for another ruckman as the last piece of the puzzle.

We have Lids, Martin and Cotchin as A graders. Foley has been out of the game for 2 years so lets just wait before labelling him A grade material. Conca 5 games in again too early.

Midfield and defence wins Flags. How many flags did Plugger and G Ablett win.

Midfielders kicking goals is where we want to get to and IMO a Midfield with Cotch, Martin, Lids, Scully, Foley, Conca would be hard for any club to match.

Our second priority or close first is developing/drafting for a A grade Defender. Anyone who thinks Mcguane will come on must be on some serious hooch. They are your everyday battlers that would barely feature in any top 8 side. We so need one of Grimes/Astbury to become our general down back or we are stuffed.

In 2012 we should aim trade for a ruckman but not yet. Until we are seriously challenging i wouldnt be chasing a ruckman yet, we have a few holes yet to fill.

Lastly who said about anything about trading both our first round picks. I would offer up our first plus Morton. If Foley doesnt come on or still seems injury prone i would consider offering him up and the Tambling pick, thus keeping our 1st pick. After all we gifted the Cats 12 and 16 for Otto

You also forget these 1st round picks are almost like early to late 2nds due to WGS.
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #83 on: May 06, 2011, 10:29:13 PM »
I'd rather delist or trade Morton and use both picks in the draft as they will get us two good players which is better than 1 good player
We have enough midfield guns, we need depth

 :o

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #84 on: May 06, 2011, 10:44:04 PM »
Considering GWS are coming in and we are in need of rebuilding then I am with Inf and would rather keep our picks. I think the recruiters in our first round have got it right since 2006 and I see no reason why they can't in the future considering the time and effort we have been putting into the footy dept especially since Post Miller.

I would rather keep our picks than get someone for overs that in the long run may hinder us at the final hurdle or may more seriously cost us from a salary cap free agency perspective where we may have to let a few blokes go ala Essendon, Heffernan Blumfield Caracella post 2001.

In this day and age I'll take the draft and rebuild without losing trading any first rounders. I'll trade picks for players with other clubs once we have climbed the ladder and we are looking to get blokes who have been in the system already who can fit into the side based on their skill set and the specific needs we have that skill set can be best utilised on.

As much as Scully would be great for us giving away first round draft picks for him takes away from other key developmental areas where we may be lacking and thus robbing us in the long run of a KPP a ruckman etc. Furthermore the price Scully would have on his head potentially would fly in the face of what we would be offering our kids and may cause dissention amongst the kids Cotch, Jack, Conca, Lids, Dusty etc when the time comes and their contracts are up.

I am not of the idea of giving up two first rounders for him. Lets keep our first rounder and our Tambo pick and if we can get rid of a few and get a few extra picks along the way then lets go for it. We still potentially have to cull another 6-8 players at the end of the year. We are in no possie to give away picks. I say unless he comes cheap let him go to GWS despite his obvious abilities. I choose to look at waht I have and how I can make it better without losing to much.

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #85 on: May 06, 2011, 10:56:54 PM »
You may have a point in terms of future salary cap issues. I can't see any more probems.
You need to give something to get something;
I'd be happy to give up our first pick and tambling picks plus a kicker such as Morton for
scully. He is went #1 for a reason. His last quarter vs the dogs when he got 15 odd touches was
extraordinary  
You could try trade a Moore. Or nason. Or mcgaune to an expansion club to get back some picks.
Big Richmond fan. Professional trainer like cousins. Would only be a 3rd yr player...  I could not think of
more perfect linkman foot soilderfor our devloping mid group.
R1 2012
batchelor. Grimes. Moore/astbury.  
Houli. Rance. Newman
nahas. Martin. Grigg.
Conca. Griffiths. Deledio.  
King. Riewoldt. Vickery.
Derickx. Cotchin/Foley. Scully/Jackson.  

+1 tuck.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 11:29:46 PM by Bentleigh-esque »

Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #86 on: May 06, 2011, 11:06:44 PM »
Young yes and I agree only a third year player but lets not live on the romance of him being a RFC fan.

I understand that in the position we are in where we need to dip into the draft not just for another mid but a ruckman and KPP to give what some are suggesting would only hinder us longer term as we may miss out on that player merely by getting Scully who as good as he may be is no ruckman and no KPP back or fwd.

Our squad is not yet at the stage where we are trading picks for players because our premiership window is open. Right now we are merely looking at the window and we haven't even turned the latch to unlock it. Lets not look too far ahead and lets focus on developing those we have and using our picks on our specific needs rather than getting a player who is a RFC fan albeit how good he is.

The price is too steep and our squad still has holes that need to be filled and Sully on his own won't fill them.
No I wouldn't trade our first rounder and Tambling pick for him. Keep the picks IMHO.

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #87 on: May 06, 2011, 11:19:49 PM »
On SEN this evening, Lloyd was discussing that GWS have four 17 y/o players they must auction off to the highest bidder. Im not sure of the intricacies but on what i heard is that these 4 players are good enough to be top 20. Why they must auction these players I don't know. Maybe someone on this forum might know what he was talking about.  
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Hellenic Tiger

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #88 on: May 06, 2011, 11:20:20 PM »
Daniel mids and defence wins flags in some cases not all but Dunstall played in 4 and Dermie in 5 and Denis Pagan developed a side that created space in the forward line that this bloke called Wayne Carey exploited with devastating effect. Won two flags should have won a third if those forwards kicked straight in another in 1998 and in a Prelim in 1994 and built a dynasty which never got out of the top 4 in 8 seasons.

To think giving away our pics on Scully as another mid is going to make us a better side when we could fill holes in KPP and ruckman is ludicrous.

We all accept and recognise that Lids Dusty Conca Cotchin are not going to let us down yet we all have had a sook over our backline look how exposed we were with suspensions and with Gus. Lets fill a few more holes in our list and not lose any sleep on Scully. Ultimately good luck to the kid but to me its like buying a used car for the price of a new one of that model.

Offline Infamy

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #89 on: May 06, 2011, 11:25:31 PM »
Good to see someone is on the same page as me
You'd think we'd have learnt our lesson by now after all the trades we've done with early picks over the last couple of decades
Look how far that got us