Author Topic: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years [merged]  (Read 38270 times)

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #90 on: May 06, 2011, 11:46:15 PM »
Good to see someone is on the same page as me
You'd think we'd have learnt our lesson by now after all the trades we've done with early picks over the last couple of decades
Look how far that got us

I have been against trading for thr likes of Kane Johnson ad Jordan mcmahon over the years in favor of a keep high pick policy.   

However in the future we must be bold. Retain our better players and at least looo at adding stars if the chance occurs.

Ottens -> Geelong.
B hall -> Sydney.



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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #91 on: May 07, 2011, 11:39:35 AM »
On SEN this evening, Lloyd was discussing that GWS have four 17 y/o players they must auction off to the highest bidder. Im not sure of the intricacies but on what i heard is that these 4 players are good enough to be top 20. Why they must auction these players I don't know. Maybe someone on this forum might know what he was talking about.  

These are really important picks. Richmond must chase at least 1 of these picks WITHOUT betting or trading the farm. Some very high quality players available.

the claw

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #92 on: May 07, 2011, 12:24:32 PM »
Just thought you'd reply two years later?

 :lol

Sick bastard. Save that Carlton praise for the missus

Juddy is a SUPERSTAR
one of the all time greats
Masten, Notte & Kennedy  :lol shizzle the bedizzle
Depends on what stage of development your club is at. Chris Judd would have done nothing for our club to get us towards a premiership as he will be retiring before we get to that stage. I said I'd like the picks, not the players that West Coast took with those picks. Kennedy would be a very good forward teaming up with Jack plus at Pick 3 we could have had picked a player like Jarrad Grant, Patrick Dangerfield, Cyril Rioli, Jack Grimes or Callan Ward along with Pick 20 getting us Tayte Pears, Andy Otten or Levi Greenwood, etc.

Are you telling me you would prefer Chris Judd for 5-6 years when we are nowhere near ready to play finals instead of Cyril Rioli, Tayte Pears & Josh Kennedy for 10-12 years? That's a quality key forward, key back and freak midfielder/forward, you can build your side around that, not just one player.

I was also talking about the mentality too, these are only the players from that draft. If we are talking about using the 1st round picks we have instead of trading them away for one player, the logic still applies. I was just using the Judd trade as an example.
totally agree with this post. it all comes down to what stage you are at.
i know for fact that wce were desperate to get their hands on cotchin. its why they pushed so hard for carltons #1 pick and dealt so amicably with us.
just imagine if they did get pick 1 and cotchin. they would have potentially gone a long way to replacing judd.  and with kennedy a robust strong underrated chf.
kruezer and cotchin were the two out and out standouts in that draft.they went with notte because they were chasing key forwards also.

imo the 07 draft hurt them a bit. they could only use 4 picks because of having to place cousins salary into their cap. those picks 3 13 20 22 and kennedy a pick 4 in 05. they basically traded pick 35 the pick we gave them for morton and pick 30 for pick 22.
imagine if they did get pick 1 and used those other picks really well. cotchin, ward, pears, selwood and kennedy.

if we had kept our pp in 07 pick 19 that we traded for mcmahon  my preference was cotchin 2 rance18 and pears at 19. i had a kid called collier originally pencilled in at 19 but when rance slipped i thought him a neccesity because of needs so the pecking order for me changed .

i was one who believed we should load up with talls this goes back a long long time.i dont believe we have ever truly loaded up with talls. in 07 i was also heavily into another tall defender from my local club in cale hooker.
in 06  i was adamant we should take mackenzie in front of edwards. we traded out of pick 42 that yr and there were some decent players to be had still. colin garland anyone.

anyway i digress for where we were at in 07 to go out and trade for judd at the expense of our early picks would have done untold long term damage. to get judd we would have had to give away pick 2 18  and in all likelyhood a decent player.with judd we would probablyu win more games than we currently do but that woukld mean higher finishes and less likely picks. we would be in limbo imo sniffing around the 8 but never good enough to compete with the big boys. probably no martin or conca and possibly one or two others.

we supposedly now have recruiters who know what they are doing even with the advent of gcs and gws what early picks that are available will be invaluable.
 while we are down, now is the time to add to the likes of cotchin martin  deledio conca jack you obviously do this with early picks.
 for us depth and good structure is now the key while getting games into a decent core.

our footy club should not be trading early picks away until it has a thing called good depth good structure  and nearly all the building blocks are in place.
to me we must get some experienced players into our system  im sure we can do that without selling our souls and our long term future.

the claw

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #93 on: May 07, 2011, 12:31:49 PM »
I'd rather delist or trade Morton and use both picks in the draft as they will get us two good players which is better than 1 good player
We have enough midfield guns, we need depth

ooh please. Scully adds to our depth.

No guarantees those picks will deliver anything descent especially with WGS concessions.

Geelong had the midfield that what won them flags. No one knows who to tag at the Lexus Centre. Swan, Thomas, Pendelbury, Sidebottom the list goes on.

We add Scully to our list and Jack would be creaming his pants at the delivery coming in.

We are 1 A grader short in the back half IMO and when we are pushing near the top if one of Vickery or Gus dont come on we should trade for a top ruckman. This would complete our list.
We already have 3 Top 3 draft picks and 1 Pick 6 making up our midfield, how many other midfield's have comprised of that? The only one I can think of is Carlton and they are still too thin down back and up forward, it is not their midfield holding them back. Our pick this year will be something like 8-16 and our compensation pick if we use it in 2012 will be about pick 17-20 there are plenty of gun players picked up with these selections with the talent networks the way they are in modern recruitment.

Jack Darling went Pick 26, Nathan Fyfe Pick 20, Luke Tapscott Pick 20, Steele Sidebottom Pick 11, Luke Shuey Pick 18, Jackson Trengove Pick 22 ,David Zaharakis Pick 23, Jack Redden Pick 25, Dayne Beams Pick 29, Jack Grimes Pick 14, Callan Ward Pick 19, Jack Riewoldt Pick 13, Shaun Hampson Pick 17, Chris Dawes Pick 28.

Would you be willing to give up a combination of Fyfe/Shuey/Tapscott and Darling/Riewoldt/Dawes just for Scully? I certainly wouldn't, just like I would prefer Pick 3, 20 & Josh Kennedy to Chris Judd.

We could have two of these players with those picks which would go a long way towards fixing our depth in areas we are weaker, just like Carlton up forward and down back. Not to mention it should be easier to balance the TPP with some players like the ones I listed there rather than another player like Scully who will demand massive money. West Coast only had Judd, Kerr & Cousins as their absolute superstar mids, potentially we have more than that already.

Thats the thing we could have those players if we recruit correctly but there are no guarantees.

Your assuming the players those picks would net would be of the calibre of Fyfe, Shuey and Darling.

For the record Eagles used those picks to select Masten and Tony Notte. Such guns they are at this stage of proceedings
GWS will scoop the talent pool again so chances of success are reduced again. I would rather we turn our attention to the VFL like every one else is doing

Scully is potential A grade(injury free) and this would allow us to use Lids across half back without a need to rush him in the mid.

You can never have enough elite midfielders players

Hawks.       Rioli, Mitchell, Burgoyne, Hodge
Geelong.     Ablett, Bartell, Selwood, Chappy, Corey
Pies.          Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas, Shaw Back

Tigers currently. Dusty, Cotch, Lids.. as potential A graders. Foley on his way back but who knows.
Of course you need to back your recruiters, although ours have done pretty well with our 1st round picks since 2006 so I'd be willing to back them in.
The thing is you are not only taking the chance to get more than 1 gun player, but you are creating a more even team over the park and not putting your eggs in one basket. What if Judd/Scully was to do their knee? Your entire investment is damaged rather than perhaps only one of two or one of three going down. Even now Scully is injured and may walk out of the club at the end of the year, that's a massive loss where as with more than one player you'd still have something left. Sure Collingwood has their elite players in the midfield, but the rest of their side is so even across the ground, the Saints who are weak at the bottom end of their 22 have had nothing but failure at the last hurdle.

Each side you listed has only 4 or 5 elite mids, when we already have Lids, Cotchin, Martin, Foley & potentially Conca. That's already 4-5, so do we really need to trade away 2-3 first rounders to add another to that list? Other than the A grade mids to build the enginer room around, you really do need a good 10-12 quality midfielders to have a successful side. Multiple first rounders would be a much better way to get there than just trying to get another elite player. I'd rather we traded for another ruckman as the last piece of the puzzle.
sheesh agree again only bit i disagree with is the last sentence as i think we still have heaps of pieces to find for the puzzle. but that is a different story and depends entirely on how one rates our players and how many youngsters actually make the grade.

Offline Infamy

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #94 on: May 07, 2011, 12:56:31 PM »
I didn't mean we should trade for a ruckman NOW as the last piece of the puzzle, just we should only trade for one WHEN it is the last player we need

Offline Francois Jackson

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #95 on: May 07, 2011, 01:11:11 PM »
Daniel mids and defence wins flags in some cases not all but Dunstall played in 4 and Dermie in 5 and Denis Pagan developed a side that created space in the forward line that this bloke called Wayne Carey exploited with devastating effect. Won two flags should have won a third if those forwards kicked straight in another in 1998 and in a Prelim in 1994 and built a dynasty which never got out of the top 4 in 8 seasons.

To think giving away our pics on Scully as another mid is going to make us a better side when we could fill holes in KPP and ruckman is ludicrous.

We all accept and recognise that Lids Dusty Conca Cotchin are not going to let us down yet we all have had a sook over our backline look how exposed we were with suspensions and with Gus. Lets fill a few more holes in our list and not lose any sleep on Scully. Ultimately good luck to the kid but to me its like buying a used car for the price of a new one of that model.

Fascinating discussion one which we will never agree.

If you read back on some of my earlier posts Tucker i mentioned finding or developing an A grade defender is a very high priority for us.

I would only agree to a trade for scully if we were to hold one of our first 2 picks. (1st round or Tambling pick) and offloading a Morton to GWS and like i said if Foley doesnt come on then we can throw him up to GWS to get the deal done.

I agree we dont want a Mclovin episode but lets face it Scully is A grade. Mclovin was playing reserves and we thought it was a great idea to recruit the spud. Bit different.

I seriously cant see how we would lose if we throw Foley(If he is struggling by rd 22 which i doubt) and Morton to GWS and give that to the Dees for Scully, thus keeping one of our 2 1st rounders.

Scully is a gun and they dont grow on trees and no thats not paying overs if you ask me





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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #96 on: May 07, 2011, 01:29:25 PM »
Scully is only A grade if hes knees hold up otherwise we must pass.

Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #97 on: May 07, 2011, 01:50:07 PM »
On SEN this evening, Lloyd was discussing that GWS have four 17 y/o players they must auction off to the highest bidder. Im not sure of the intricacies but on what i heard is that these 4 players are good enough to be top 20. Why they must auction these players I don't know. Maybe someone on this forum might know what he was talking about.  

These are really important picks. Richmond must chase at least 1 of these picks WITHOUT betting or trading the farm. Some very high quality players available.
Flags can you please explain to me how this trading that Lloyd was talking about works? It sounded important but I only caught the end of he discussion.
The club that keeps giving.

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #98 on: May 09, 2011, 10:55:00 PM »
As much as Scully would be great for us giving away first round draft picks for him takes away from other key developmental areas where we may be lacking and thus robbing us in the long run of a KPP a ruckman etc.

I understand that in the position we are in where we need to dip into the draft not just for another mid but a ruckman and KPP to give what some are suggesting would only hinder us longer term as we may miss out on that player merely by getting Scully who as good as he may be is no ruckman and no KPP back or fwd.

The price is too steep and our squad still has holes that need to be filled and Sully on his own won't fill them.

Our current side is on running with seven talls; Riewoldt, Rance, Miller, Grimes, Vickery, McGaune, Graham.
15 running players around thatspine

 IfRichmond boasted a VFL side and a good run with injury our 2nd string side would line pick 7 or 8 players from the following.

Griffiths, Gourdis, Westhoff
Astbury, Post, Moore, Thursfield,
Browne, Derickx


gerkin greg

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #99 on: May 09, 2011, 11:14:44 PM »
I didn't mean we should trade for a ruckman NOW as the last piece of the puzzle, just we should only trade for one WHEN it is the last player we need

Just like I didn't mean we should have traded OUR picks for Judd, nor do i think we should be trading them now.

and LMAO at trying to draw a bow between trading away picks for McMahon and doing the same for a dual Brownlow medalist

Offline Infamy

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #100 on: May 10, 2011, 12:35:34 AM »
I didn't mean we should trade for a ruckman NOW as the last piece of the puzzle, just we should only trade for one WHEN it is the last player we need

Just like I didn't mean we should have traded OUR picks for Judd, nor do i think we should be trading them now.

and LMAO at trying to draw a bow between trading away picks for McMahon and doing the same for a dual Brownlow medalist
I wasn't trying to compare those two, I was looking further back in history than that and with earlier picks too

Offline LondonTiger

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #101 on: May 10, 2011, 07:26:40 PM »
On SEN this evening, Lloyd was discussing that GWS have four 17 y/o players they must auction off to the highest bidder. Im not sure of the intricacies but on what i heard is that these 4 players are good enough to be top 20. Why they must auction these players I don't know. Maybe someone on this forum might know what he was talking about.  

These are really important picks. Richmond must chase at least 1 of these picks WITHOUT betting or trading the farm. Some very high quality players available.
Flags can you please explain to me how this trading that Lloyd was talking about works? It sounded important but I only caught the end of he discussion.

The 4 17 year olds will never play for the GWS, so GWS pick them to stimulate trading with other clubs.    Adelaide have already suggested to GWS to draft Jack Viney, and they will trade with GWS to get him.  (either adelaides picks or most probably an experienced player)


7. Incentive to Other Clubs Trading with Team GWS in the 2011 and 2012 post-season:
Team GWS to be given access to four 17-year-olds born in the January to April 1994 window, with all players to be traded to other clubs. Selections will be allocated to Team GWS so the club can trade for established players, but the club will not have access to these 17-year-olds. If the four trades are not completed in the 2011 post-season, the balance of up to four trades may be used in the 2012 trading period.

« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 07:47:36 PM by LondonTiger »

Dubstep Dookie

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #102 on: May 10, 2011, 07:35:40 PM »

gerkin greg

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #103 on: May 10, 2011, 08:03:33 PM »
Viney is already at Melbourne

Offline TigerLand

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Re: Tom Scully to Richmond in 3-4 years.
« Reply #104 on: May 10, 2011, 11:13:04 PM »
Draft Picks Draft Picks Draft Picks!

Scully's currency is rated far too high IMO.

We are investing time and money into our drafting and recruiting we should pick the fruit from our tree we are growing rather than trade the seeds away.

Conca and Batchelor have fitted in perfectly and see them being 150+ gamers. Scully would be great and if we can get him at a fair price you'd take it. There is no point chasing him and paying overs.

We wont be able to offer anything better than a decent player plus our first round pick and maybe our 2nd. Even then Melbourne probably wouldn't take it, they and the media rate him far to highly.

I'll back our recruiters to get the draft picks right again.

Agree with Inf, a ruckman should be one of the last things traded into the club, but if a good opportunity presents we should snap it up IE Jackson Trengove.

Go Tigers!