Science thread [merged]

[dwaino]

How do you know they aren't man made air craft? UFO does not automatically mean aliens. To make the leap from an unknown craft, skipping any rational and more likely any more plausible explanation and going straight to extraterrestrials is no better than this guy,



There is not a single photograph, video or eye witness account that stands up to the rigors of scientific scrutiny. Take the Phoenix Lights for example. An entire city saw it and it is caught on film. Was it unknown? Of course because to this day there is no precise explanation. If it was an extraterrestrial craft (or crafts) or not is a hypothesis and imo a valid one. That is scientific process, not this hodge podge crap some noddy put together on youtube with an ambient soundtrack ripped from a horror movie for the gullible tin foil hat wearers to goble up. No one needs to argue the case to me, I want to believe in the same way Carl Sagan did and Seth Shostak does, but you need something concrete.

I also can't for the life of me understand why any advanced species coming here with obviously far superior technology would seek out our insignificant world leaders and do some shady deal to remain confidential as there is absolutely nothing for them to gain by it when they could quite easily take what they want. Maybe they're actually dolphins and they're mocking us by performing maneuvers in space crafts as we make them do at zoos?

[Penelope]

once you start believing in something without real proof you are entering the realm of faith and move from science to religion.

the church of Scientology, despite its name, is a religion, not a science and they believe pretty much what dwainos last paragraph asks ( not the dolphin part).

there are a great many unexplained things in this world, and it just seems to be human nature that we cant say " i dunno", but feel a need to have an explanation for everything, which is most probably why humans all over the world all had their own gods, despite being isolated from each other.

[Judge Roughneck]

Lots of words, not a shred of evidence. Stick to conspiracies pls 

I'm a Fox Mulder, I want to believe and well read on the topic from von Daniken and Sitchin to Alan Alford, seen everything from UFO Hunters to Ancient Aliens and followed many alleged eye witnesses from Charles Hall to Paul Hellyer and trust me I will be the first to bang on when there is something to go on. To suggest so now based on arguments as intangible as unsubstantiated eyewitness accounts is bad science.

The argument of technology or whatever that will apparently topple the paradigm is rubbish. If it were the case the West would be doing everything in their power to stop China from heading to the moon to control helium-3.

Also, there is no such thing as free energy, whether abundant or scarce 

the sun? 

(you gotta build a solar panel but come on)

[Penelope]

you also have to build a means of storing it.
batteries are expensive and dont last very long.
this is what holds solar back.

coal and oil are actually both forms of solar energy fwiw

[Judge Roughneck]

Lots of words, not a shred of evidence.

apart from the ufos chilling outside the International Space Station? 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGfzMdDxijM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAsxflfMXtg

i have not youtubed this stuff before. have you?

there seems to be some funky stuff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x4P24IUDqY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whzmaJhw9ZY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwX_OWkx8Og

 

[Penelope]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7ni3vqzxA
 

[dwaino]

you also have to build a means of storing it.
batteries are expensive and dont last very long.
this is what holds solar back.

coal and oil are actually both forms of solar energy fwiw

Spot on.

You also need an inverter to make it usable since the panels produce about 12v DC and we need 240v AC Hz (120v 60Hz for the USA because Edison never got over his spat with Tesla). Great for lightning and heating elements like in hot water systems but cannot produce enough power to run things like fridges and washing machines that have motors (power in measured in watts = volts*current, power out will always be less, even good efficiency is only around 0.89, 1 being perfect doesn't exist).

As usual bents missed the point though. Solar energy isn't free, it is transferring light energy into electrical energy. Nothing is free, some are only more efficient than others. Usually I just ignore reptiles but sometimes you don't want to give the plebs the satisfaction that they have had some sort victory, but then shortly after you feel dumber yourself and wonder why the hell you even bothered in the first place 

[dwaino]

once you start believing in something without real proof you are entering the realm of faith and move from science to religion.

Faith: irrational belief in something with total disregard of evidence (whether it exists or not).

[dwaino]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc7ni3vqzxA
 

63k views, it must be real 

[🏅Dooks]

How do you know they aren't man made air craft? UFO does not automatically mean aliens. To make the leap from an unknown craft, skipping any rational and more likely any more plausible explanation and going straight to extraterrestrials is no better than this guy.

There is not a single photograph, video or eye witness account that stands up to the rigors of scientific scrutiny. Take the Phoenix Lights for example. An entire city saw it and it is caught on film. Was it unknown? Of course because to this day there is no precise explanation. If it was an extraterrestrial craft (or crafts) or not is a hypothesis and imo a valid one.

Sounds pretty irrational to me. It's possible and indeed plausible these craft/lights are under intelligent control (non human). It's not a huge leap of faith nor an illogical view to draw that conclusion on the balance of probability.  There's less evidence to suggest that unexplained Ufos are man made because we don't have the tech (or have developed the tech ourselves) to fly and manoeuvre at those speeds.

[Judge Roughneck]

dwayne you dont have to reply its ok. but i hope you can understand that i dont know you or your study on science / the universe etc.

hence i think when a scientist who is say, an astronaut and claim he saw a ufo out his space ship window for me, it hold more weight , than you. but if go to space and do some studying and see nothing then what you say would be equally valid

you also have to build a means of storing it.
batteries are expensive and dont last very long.
this is what holds solar back.

coal and oil are actually both forms of solar energy fwiw

Spot on.

You also need an inverter to make it usable since the panels produce about 12v DC and we need 240v AC Hz (120v 60Hz for the USA because Edison never got over his spat with Tesla). Great for lightning and heating elements like in hot water systems but cannot produce enough power to run things like fridges and washing machines that have motors (power in measured in watts = volts*current, power out will always be less, even good efficiency is only around 0.89, 1 being perfect doesn't exist).

As usual bents missed the point though. Solar energy isn't free, it is transferring light energy into electrical energy. Nothing is free, some are only more efficient than others. Usually I just ignore reptiles but sometimes you don't want to give the stupid the satisfaction that they have had some sort victory, but then shortly after you feel dumber yourself and wonder why the hell you even bothered in the first place 

if there are indeed ufos how did they get here?

i assume they have some sort of power system yes? i assume itd be more efficient than fossil fuels / solar yes?

you claim you want hard evidence (from the government, i assume?). im saying why would they help you in that regards if it means changing the way the current energy markets work? and as mentioned the religious implications

There is not a single photograph, video or eye witness account that stands up to the rigors of scientific scrutiny. Take the Phoenix Lights for example. An entire city saw it and it is caught on film. Was it unknown? Of course because to this day there is no precise explanation. If it was an extraterrestrial craft (or crafts) or not is a hypothesis and imo a valid one. That is scientific process, not this hodge podge crap some noddy put together on youtube with an ambient soundtrack ripped from a horror movie for the gullible tin foil hat wearers to goble up. No one needs to argue the case to me, I want to believe in the same way Carl Sagan did and Seth Shostak does, but you need something concrete.

I also can't for the life of me understand why any advanced species coming here with obviously far superior technology would seek out our insignificant world leaders and do some shady deal to remain confidential as there is absolutely nothing for them to gain by it when they could quite easily take what they want. Maybe they're actually dolphins and they're mocking us by performing maneuvers in space crafts as we make them do at zoos?

just cause you or i cannot understand something, doesnt mean it isnt so

How do you know they aren't man made air craft? UFO does not automatically mean aliens. To make the leap from an unknown craft, skipping any rational and more likely any more plausible explanation and going straight to extraterrestrials is no better than this guy,

in the case of the foo fighter - apparently both nazi and allies said they didnt think it could be man made

in the case of reagan ufo sighting while on the jet they apparently chased it and reckon there it did things human made craft could not

[dwaino]

How do you know they aren't man made air craft? UFO does not automatically mean aliens. To make the leap from an unknown craft, skipping any rational and more likely any more plausible explanation and going straight to extraterrestrials is no better than this guy.

There is not a single photograph, video or eye witness account that stands up to the rigors of scientific scrutiny. Take the Phoenix Lights for example. An entire city saw it and it is caught on film. Was it unknown? Of course because to this day there is no precise explanation. If it was an extraterrestrial craft (or crafts) or not is a hypothesis and imo a valid one.

Sounds pretty irrational to me. It's possible and indeed plausible these craft/lights are under intelligent control (non human). It's not a huge leap of faith nor an illogical view to draw that conclusion on the balance of probability.  There's less evidence to suggest that unexplained Ufos are man made because we don't have the tech (or have developed the tech ourselves) to fly and manoeuvre at those speeds.

Extraterrestrials aren't proven to exist yet it isn't a big leap to conclude they are performing dazzling aerial maneuvers in craft that may or may not exist and may very well be some other phenomena?  come on.

[Penelope]

How do you know they aren't man made air craft? UFO does not automatically mean aliens. To make the leap from an unknown craft, skipping any rational and more likely any more plausible explanation and going straight to extraterrestrials is no better than this guy.

There is not a single photograph, video or eye witness account that stands up to the rigors of scientific scrutiny. Take the Phoenix Lights for example. An entire city saw it and it is caught on film. Was it unknown? Of course because to this day there is no precise explanation. If it was an extraterrestrial craft (or crafts) or not is a hypothesis and imo a valid one.

Sounds pretty irrational to me. It's possible and indeed plausible these craft/lights are under intelligent control (non human). It's not a huge leap of faith nor an illogical view to draw that conclusion on the balance of probability.  There's less evidence to suggest that unexplained Ufos are man made because we don't have the tech (or have developed the tech ourselves) to fly and manoeuvre at those speeds.

What speeds do you refer to? Faster than the speed of sound?

[Judge Roughneck]

my personal view was it was all a bit silly.

then i read, i believe a former american 'nuclear boss', cant remember specific title, claim it was all fair dinkum. my logic is as follows: if this is one of the few men with the ability to end the world. why would he be untrustworthy? would they not have picked someone thats not a nutter? 

i cannot find the article but it was something not unlike this: http://news.discovery.com/space/ufos-spying-on-our-nukes-airmen-claim.htm

I think I'll take Neil Armstrongs word over two guys on the Internet that follow Richmond and inadvertently believe UFOs = crackpots on this subject matter.

Professor: What really happened out there with Apollo 11?

Armstrong: It was incredible … of course, we had always known there was a possibility … the fact is, we were warned off. There was never any questions then of a space station or a moon city.

Professor: How do you mean “warned off”?

Armstrong: I can’t go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology – Boy, where they big! … and menacing …. No, there is no question of a space station.

i like this one:

NASA: What's there? Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous! OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it! I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there, lined up on the far side of the crater edge! They're on the Moon watching us!


In 1979, Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. "The encounter was common knowledge in NASA, but nobody has talked about it until now."

Soviet scientists were allegedly the first to confirm the incident. 

"According to our information, the encounter was reported immediately after the landing of the module," said Dr. Vladimir Azhazha, a physicist and Professor of Mathematics at Moscow University. "Neil Armstrong relayed the message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects were watching them after having landed near the moon module. But his message was never heard by the public-because NASA censored it."

According to another Soviet scientist, Dr. Aleksandr Kazantsev, Buzz Aldrin took color movie film of the UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after he and Armstrong went outside. Dr. Azhazha claims that the UFOs departed minutes after the astronauts came out on to the lunar surface. Maurice Chatelain also confirmed that Apollo 11's radio transmissions were interrupted on several occasions in order to hide the news from the public (this can actually be confirmed because recordings exist in the public domain of these radio 'blackouts'). He went on to claim that "all Apollo and Gemini flights were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin-flying saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name. Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission Control, who then ordered absolute silence."

So....was it confirmed? Yes, if you believe Binder, Chatelain, Azhazha and Kazantsev. But is there any PROOF in the form of recordings? Sadly, no. NASA even managed to lose most of the Apollo 11 mission tapes never to be recovered. I do find it very interesting that Armstrong initially refused to participate in any of NASA's 40th celebration ceremonies. He's certainly a man of integrity, and perhaps that's why he refused to be put into situations where he might be forced to lie about UFO's and a possible alien presence on moon? At a conference presented to new NASA apprentices which was aired on CSPAN, Armstrong first compared himself and the other astronauts to a parrot before claiming that parrots don't fly too well (but they do repeat what they are told). Armstrong then went on to state that 'there are great freedoms available to those who could strip away one of truth's protective layers.' Was this a reference to the disinformation surrounding the UFO topic? Either way, it's a fascinating story that--if true--will probably never be disclosed to the public.

the guy talking is edgar mitchell, he's the astronaut who holds the longest recorded moonwalk. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iNMPdbnkcw

this guy was the defense minister of canada, skip to like 50 sec, he's kind of boring before that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I9UJ8uWqF6E

this is footage neil armstrong and edgar mitchell took on the moon of the structures the defense minister is talking about http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWkGTJEK0Mc

[🏅Dooks]

How do you know they aren't man made air craft? UFO does not automatically mean aliens. To make the leap from an unknown craft, skipping any rational and more likely any more plausible explanation and going straight to extraterrestrials is no better than this guy.

There is not a single photograph, video or eye witness account that stands up to the rigors of scientific scrutiny. Take the Phoenix Lights for example. An entire city saw it and it is caught on film. Was it unknown? Of course because to this day there is no precise explanation. If it was an extraterrestrial craft (or crafts) or not is a hypothesis and imo a valid one.

Sounds pretty irrational to me. It's possible and indeed plausible these craft/lights are under intelligent control (non human). It's not a huge leap of faith nor an illogical view to draw that conclusion on the balance of probability.  There's less evidence to suggest that unexplained Ufos are man made because we don't have the tech (or have developed the tech ourselves) to fly and manoeuvre at those speeds.

What speeds do you refer to? Faster than the speed of sound?

In some cases yes, in others no.

For example:-

On the evening of the 30th and 31st of March 1990, the Control Reporting Center (CRC) at Glons radar-confirmed triangular objects in the sky above Belgium after having received various reports of unusual lights as bright as stars that changed color. After receiving a second radar confirmation, two F-16 jets were scrambled to intercept. For more than an hour the F-16’s tried to intercept; on three occasions they even obtained radar lock but every time the objects would change their position or accelerate so fast that the locks were broken. During the first radar-lock, the object accelerated from 150 m p/h to more than 1 100 m p/h while changing altitude from 9,000 ft to 5,000 ft and back up to 11,000 ft in less than 2 seconds. These changes in altitude at the speeds reported would have been fatal to any human pilot. During the whole time, more than 13,000 people witnessed the unfolding drama from the ground. After a little more than an hour, the objects disappeared from the various radar screens and the F-16’s returned to base.

http://listverse.com/2013/06/06/10-mysterious-ufo-incidents-confirmed-by-radar/