What's our best 22 now?

[Yeahright]

To now acknowledging him being a very good footballer who could still improve some aspects of his game..
T
he other constant me complaining about Rance being  poor in several areas,  constantly falling over, getting caught out of position, getting beaten too often 1v1, misreading the ball in the air

So what are your criticisms now?

[big tone]

Dead wrong about Grimes, Santa, spot on about Castagna though....

We all see things  different. I have never been one to run with the pack or just go along with popular opinion.
Has Grimes showed courage this year? Yep he sure has.Has he played well? yep.   Is he soft as butter?  yep he sure is. I have seen too many instances of him being rag dolled by smaller players and he lacks  aggression and allows himself to be bullied. Yes i do question his ticker.

As far as explanations go, that sucked.

You actually look for reasons to pot our players and our club. Even if it means just making poo up.

I couldnt give a stuff if you liked it or not.It is something i have seen on a regular basis. Its not writing him off it is a criticism of a part of his game. You blokes seem to struggle making those distinctions.

Claw doesn't know what his talking about. Just bags and bags the club and has no real idea about anytying. why continue to lurk in mordor

Claw is a champion, but has got it wrong with Grimes, if we delisted Grimes, Hawthorn would pick him up in a heartbeat.

Claw is allowed to get it wrong occassionally

yep, everyone gets some of it wrong occasionally

its just the extent that is the worrying part

even for us discipleship-of-clawski like my self

... like claiming a young rance will not make it as a key defender, the night after he owned a john brown in his pomp

... or saying grimes is soft, hes was the only one to perform a heroic, non-soft, act in the losing final

A literal best 22

B: Grimes - Chaplin - Batchelor
HB: Houli - Rance - Yarran.   Fair dinkum its horrid Take the AA out and it is mediocre.

MID: McIntosh - Martin - B Ellis. Again atm its one A grader.
Ruck: Maric - Cotchin - Miles. Not too shabby but the ruckman is a concern.

HF: Deledio - Vickery - Edwards. Gotta ask is there really a pure fwd amongst them.
F: Lloyd - Riewoldt - Griffith. Thank god theres an A grader here becuse the other two are shiite.

INT: Grigg - Conca - Hunt - Lambert. If there was a place called plodsville this would be it. We need to improve on 9 to 11 players who are supposed to be best 22.

No spot for:
Lennon?
Vlastuin??

Sorry missed Vlastuin.

 

maybe claw comes out of the rabbit hole to visit us?

yeah yeah yeah ive heard it all before. I have said on numerous occasions i would not change one criticism i had of Rance. Once again, no still   posters showing they are incapable of differentiating between justified criticism and writing a player off.
Alex Rance was poor in key areas  for his first 4  years  but whats the point in arguing now like then with people who insist that Rance was perfect.

It is the same with Grimes, i have criticised one area of his game but wait im writing him off. You blokes need to toughen up a bit.
Okay lets criticise another area. He plays very much on smalls these days he provides no run, finds little  ball,  lays few tackles ffs because of blokes like him we had to get Yarran. FFS poor old Batchelor was regularly asked to play third tall because Dylan is a weak soft prick.

Hang on mate, you have said Rance would never make it as a KPD, and I'm pretty sure the last 2 years have shown you to be wrong. That's not a criticism that's a statement that you were 100% wrong about. I know you say he would be better a the 3rd tall but without doubt he has been an out and out star as a KD in the last 2 years.
On Grimes I think you are just about as wrong as you were about Rance.
Maybe he needs to get more footy or be more attacking when he does get it but "soft" no way.

Dont call me  mate. We have been here before. Now like then you are kidding yourself,  as i asked then  bring up one post where i have written him off and said delist get rid of him hes no good.
My history with rance on footy forums goes
Wanting him at pick 18
Highly critical of aspects of his game
To now acknowledging him being a very good footballer who could still improve some aspects of his game..

Your trouble you  get all precious when players you think are okay get criticised.
I have been thru the Rance thread and on no occasion have i called for his head. Must be 100 posts of mine there and other boards on the topic.
 The one constant has been whiny bunnies like you complaining about rance copping criticism.The other constant me complaining about Rance being  poor in several areas,  constantly falling over, getting caught out of position, getting beaten too often 1v1, misreading the ball in the air yep i was right into him and as i have said to you before i stand by those criticisms.
Any way Paint it  how you like i really dont give a stuff.

All the other fluff aside, have you in the past said Rance isn't a KPD? Pretty simple question?
And for the record I have lots of mates. 

[Stalin]

What's are your thoughts on 200cm blokes clawski?

[YellowandBlackBlood]

What's are your thoughts on 200cm blokes clawski?

Is 200cm the new 195cm?

[Penelope]

How many mates does Rance have, i wonder?

[YellowandBlackBlood]

How many mates does Rance have, i wonder?

Is there a number that you have in your mind that will impress you? I mean does it matter if it's 5 or 15? Not sure what you are trying to indicate and if you are indicating something, please come out and say it.

[Stalin]

and troy is too rubbish to be anything other than an oxygen thief

you are comparing a donkey to a rolls Royce

Maybe so, but there are horses for courses. Lids could play HBF, but not KPD.

You could play Cotchin, Martin, Deledio, Riewoldt and Rance ALL in the back six if you wanted to, but just because they're good players doesn't mean they're suited to those positions.

Lids is wasted in the D50 and with his achilles issues I don't want him playing there.

for context; we are currently playing BACHELOR on resting rucks / monster key forwards

 


i am quite partial to the astbury / Elton / McBean / Griffihs option/s

but

#1 rance
#2 mini rance
#3 grimes
# 4 deledio
#5 vlastuin
#6 c ellis / yarren

looks solid as a panzer division for mine. Are least less soft that the current model

play houli higher up the ground

build from the back... are you not sick of getting spanked in elimination finals?



It might be slightly too short but would rebound good, more so with the rotation of houli / menadue

you could play one of the before mentioned young key talls as a 'swingman', like that flog from the WCE flag winning side

#mini-Rance

[Stalin]

How many mates does Rance have, i wonder?

hes got me, baby 

[the claw]

What's are your thoughts on 200cm blokes clawski?

I think you know my thoughts on 200cm key fwds. There is a difference you know between ruckmen kpfs and kpds. You tell me how many  200cm players have become gun kpfs.
You blokes can take the pee all you like but at the end of the day the truth is in the answer to the above question.
Tippett is about the best of them and im sure a champion will come along at some stage but the fact remains so few 200cm blokes have done a thing as permanent key fwds.

We have three 200cm blokes  who are supposed to be kpfs and my money is on none of em becoming very good kpfs.

Yeah i will stick to my guns and at the end of the day we will see who is right.

Unlike idiots who slash their wrists to prove a point and usually ends up wrong, ive been proven right far too often to change.

[Yeahright]

I love Claw's "I'm always right, just ask me" attitude . I can't actually think of any big calls you've made and have been right. Happy to be proven wrong as everyone gets one right eventually

[Penelope]

lol
if you want to sprout such things and tell the world how good you are, then perhaps provide something like the number of 200+ forwards that are actually drafted and the number of them that make the grade, compared to the number of <200cm fPF forwards and what percentage make the grade.

That is the only true way to back up such a claim, but I'm sure we will told that we must take claywehs word for it

As it stands you could use the same logic to say dont draft sudanese players because "how many sudanese players have become good footballers?"

[the claw]

I love Claw's "I'm always right, just ask me" attitude . I can't actually think of any big calls you've made and have been right. Happy to be proven wrong as everyone gets one right eventually

Well you need to pay closer attention then dont you. I can keep saying what i say because for the last  15 or so  years  the club has achieved sweet stuff all on field and it aint about to change.
It aint hard for anyone to be right or do better.The club that thrives on mediocrity and the supporters lap it up.
Are things going to get better? Heres just one  reason why they wont
LOL  Grimes, Houli, Yarran, Chaplin in the one backline who said bruise free footy is not alive and well and thats just one area of the field. No wonder Rance looks so good hes surrounded by chumps.
WHAT HAVE THEY DONE THE LAST 6 YEARS? What have they achieved. Honest answer is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Maybe its a big maybe IF they actually achieve something i will have to shut up.15  plus years and counting im still waiting for them to shut me up.

[tony_montana]

I agree with claw on the 200cm key fwd, can't recall any being a top shelf kpf.
Sure they can be handy as a bit part ruckman but dominant key fwd? can't think of one.

Buddy and richo are the tallest gun  Fwds I've seen, I can't name the 200+cm kpf who are  dominant  year after year..

Roughead, Pavlich, reiwoldt x2, Cameron, Schulz, Jonathan Brown, Cloke, buddy, Richo, Kennedy, Darling, Hawkins, Jesse Hogan,

Vs

Tippet, Vickery, Daniher, Boyd, Mitch Clarke, westhoff, McBean, Natanui, Zac Clarke, Sinclair.

If I was going to draft a key fwd to build a fed line around I'd go for a hogan, Cloke, Roughead, Reiwoldt type over  Mitch Clalrke, Vikery, Tippet type every single time

[YellowandBlackBlood]

The problem is everybody is getting taller. So what was a reasonable or ideal height 10 years ago may not be ideal in 5 years time.......

[tony_montana]

Tell you what, if in 10 yrs time we have several 200+cm Fwds dominating then I'll change my mind