Shaun Hampson / Hammertime [merged]

[Andyy]

I don't understand the angst.

Richmond identified a list weakness and addresse it.

I seriously doubt they offered our second pick straight up. They'd have played hardball a little before realising that Carlton, aware of our need, would take advantage of us. Furthermore if we didn't broker a trade Hampson would either stay at Carlton or be delisted whilst contracted (unlikely) and picked up in the PSD. Plenty of clubs would take him as a ruck backup, especially the cellar-dwellers, knowing full well that he's tall, has a mature body and will contribute probably 5+ years of football if needed.

Richmond did what they had to do. If they didn't grab a ruckman people would be crying. Longer didn't want to play for RFC. Blokes like McEvoy would cost us pick 11. Imagine the whinging if we traded that.



I'm happy with the trade. We got the type of player we need and I have faith in our list management group, especially after seeing what they've done the last four years. Seriously if you get 1-2 bona fide AFL players each year you're doing alright. Plenty of spuds in the draft and none ready to shoulder ruck responsibilities most likely.

[TigerLand]

that is not what i am saying.
Once again you are ignoring all the failures and just cherry picking the few successes.

It is even debatable if being a premiership player alone is a guide to how sucessful the draft pick is, as there are premiership players who do not have long carreers.

But that distracts from the important point that you are not looking at the overall success rate, just bringing a few names out.

It's not my eyes that need opening, they are wide open and can see the whole picture, not just the snippets that suit me.

We'll I'm not sure what you are arguing then,

My argument is that there are examples of successful picks around 28 that have resulted in successful playing careers - premierships, all Australians. Thus IMO pick 28 shouldn't be handed away for a guy who has been in the system for 7 years and has failed to play more than 15 games in any one season.

I'm not saying its a guaranteed success, I'm simply saying that we have thrown away a chance at getting one of these players mentioned for a guy who in my opinion has already failed in the AFL system and for only a part time role at our club.

It's impossible to predict the future of Hampson but with the names mentioned id prefer to roll the dice with Pick 28 and maybe get a Hannerbury or a Gunston over hoping Hampson may click in his 8th year of football. If pick 28 failed I doubt we'd regret not taking Hampson. Pick 28 becomes the next Dayne Beams and watch the newspapers calling the Hampson trade an dodgy one.

[YellowandBlackBlood]

that is not what i am saying.
Once again you are ignoring all the failures and just cherry picking the few successes.

It is even debatable if being a premiership player alone is a guide to how sucessful the draft pick is, as there are premiership players who do not have long carreers.

But that distracts from the important point that you are not looking at the overall success rate, just bringing a few names out.

It's not my eyes that need opening, they are wide open and can see the whole picture, not just the snippets that suit me.

We'll I'm not sure what you are arguing then,

My argument is that there are examples of successful picks around 28 that have resulted in successful playing careers - premierships, all Australians. Thus IMO pick 28 shouldn't be handed away for a guy who has been in the system for 7 years and has failed to play more than 15 games in any one season.

I'm not saying its a guaranteed success, I'm simply saying that we have thrown away a chance at getting one of these players mentioned for a guy who in my opinion has already failed in the AFL system and for only a part time role at our club.

It's impossible to predict the future of Hampson but with the names mentioned id prefer to roll the dice with Pick 28 and maybe get a Hannerbury or a Gunston over hoping Hampson may click in his 8th year of football. If pick 28 failed I doubt we'd regret not taking Hampson. Pick 28 becomes the next Dayne Beams and watch the newspapers calling the Hampson trade an dodgy one.

It's all about chance.  While we MAY pick up a good player at 28-33, the chances are slim. There is almost no chance of picking up a good ruck in this draft at that pick too (especially one that is ready to go from game one). So the club saw it's weakness and bolstered the ruck division.  We must nail pick 11. We still don't know what our compo pick will be which makes further trades difficult.

[MintOnLamb]

that is not what i am saying.
Once again you are ignoring all the failures and just cherry picking the few successes.

It is even debatable if being a premiership player alone is a guide to how sucessful the draft pick is, as there are premiership players who do not have long carreers.

But that distracts from the important point that you are not looking at the overall success rate, just bringing a few names out.

It's not my eyes that need opening, they are wide open and can see the whole picture, not just the snippets that suit me.

We'll I'm not sure what you are arguing then,

My argument is that there are examples of successful picks around 28 that have resulted in successful playing careers - premierships, all Australians. Thus IMO pick 28 shouldn't be handed away for a guy who has been in the system for 7 years and has failed to play more than 15 games in any one season.

I'm not saying its a guaranteed success, I'm simply saying that we have thrown away a chance at getting one of these players mentioned for a guy who in my opinion has already failed in the AFL system and for only a part time role at our club.

It's impossible to predict the future of Hampson but with the names mentioned id prefer to roll the dice with Pick 28 and maybe get a Hannerbury or a Gunston over hoping Hampson may click in his 8th year of football. If pick 28 failed I doubt we'd regret not taking Hampson. Pick 28 becomes the next Dayne Beams and watch the newspapers calling the Hampson trade an dodgy one.

It's all about chance.  While we MAY pick up a good player at 28-33, the chances are slim. There is almost no chance of picking up a good ruck in this draft at that pick too (especially one that is ready to go from game one). So the club saw it's weakness and bolstered the ruck division.  We must nail pick 11. We still don't know what our compo pick will be which makes further trades difficult.

McBeanarunie was 33

[Lozza]

McBeanstalker is yet to play a seniors game so whilst he shows the goods at VFL level in his case it's difficult to use as evidence.  With a 30+ pick history would suggest its more luck than good management in most cases.

[Penelope]

that is not what i am saying.
Once again you are ignoring all the failures and just cherry picking the few successes.

It is even debatable if being a premiership player alone is a guide to how sucessful the draft pick is, as there are premiership players who do not have long carreers.

But that distracts from the important point that you are not looking at the overall success rate, just bringing a few names out.

It's not my eyes that need opening, they are wide open and can see the whole picture, not just the snippets that suit me.

We'll I'm not sure what you are arguing then,

My argument is that there are examples of successful picks around 28 that have resulted in successful playing careers - premierships, all Australians. Thus IMO pick 28 shouldn't be handed away for a guy who has been in the system for 7 years and has failed to play more than 15 games in any one season.

I'm not saying its a guaranteed success, I'm simply saying that we have thrown away a chance at getting one of these players mentioned for a guy who in my opinion has already failed in the AFL system and for only a part time role at our club.

It's impossible to predict the future of Hampson but with the names mentioned id prefer to roll the dice with Pick 28 and maybe get a Hannerbury or a Gunston over hoping Hampson may click in his 8th year of football. If pick 28 failed I doubt we'd regret not taking Hampson. Pick 28 becomes the next Dayne Beams and watch the newspapers calling the Hampson trade an dodgy one.

So you have changed your stance from the pick being valuable to "roll the dice" and "maybe?"

You could take most picks up to 50, as well as a few later ones, find a success, ignore the failures and use that illogical process to argue that any pick is valuable. It is exactly the sucker thinking that has people fill the coffers of the lotto and pokie operators

As Y&BB blood said, it is about the chances of success, not the few names that beat the odds. The chances of getting a ruckman in the draft that can step straight in and ease marics workload next year are very slim, yet alone with that pick.

  @ GAF about what the papers may or may not print in the future. No one will know who we have used that pick on anyway, so anything said about that that will just be ill informed hypothetical BS from the best crap artists going around,whatever way it pans out.

The only thing that is important from here on in, is what sort of service Hampson gives us. That alone is how the trade should be judged.

McBeanarunie was 33

Wow, there's an insight no one had picked up on.

[TigerLand]

that is not what i am saying.
Once again you are ignoring all the failures and just cherry picking the few successes.

It is even debatable if being a premiership player alone is a guide to how sucessful the draft pick is, as there are premiership players who do not have long carreers.

But that distracts from the important point that you are not looking at the overall success rate, just bringing a few names out.

It's not my eyes that need opening, they are wide open and can see the whole picture, not just the snippets that suit me.

We'll I'm not sure what you are arguing then,

My argument is that there are examples of successful picks around 28 that have resulted in successful playing careers - premierships, all Australians. Thus IMO pick 28 shouldn't be handed away for a guy who has been in the system for 7 years and has failed to play more than 15 games in any one season.

I'm not saying its a guaranteed success, I'm simply saying that we have thrown away a chance at getting one of these players mentioned for a guy who in my opinion has already failed in the AFL system and for only a part time role at our club.

It's impossible to predict the future of Hampson but with the names mentioned id prefer to roll the dice with Pick 28 and maybe get a Hannerbury or a Gunston over hoping Hampson may click in his 8th year of football. If pick 28 failed I doubt we'd regret not taking Hampson. Pick 28 becomes the next Dayne Beams and watch the newspapers calling the Hampson trade an dodgy one.

So you have changed your stance from the pick being valuable to "roll the dice" and "maybe?"

You could take most picks up to 50, as well as a few later ones, find a success, ignore the failures and use that illogical process to argue that any pick is valuable. It is exactly the sucker thinking that has people fill the coffers of the lotto and pokie operators

As Y&BB blood said, it is about the chances of success, not the few names that beat the odds. The chances of getting a ruckman in the draft that can step straight in and ease marics workload next year are very slim, yet alone with that pick.

  @ GAF about what the papers may or may not print in the future. No one will know who we have used that pick on anyway, so anything said about that that will just be ill informed hypothetical BS from the best crap artists going around,whatever way it pans out.

The only thing that is important from here on in, is what sort of service Hampson gives us. That alone is how the trade should be judged.

McBeanarunie was 33

Wow, there's an insight no one had picked up on.

I haven't changed my stance at all, I consider a 1% chance more valuable than flaming Hampson, thus thinking pick 28 is more valuable and us losing out in the trade and paying overs. Said that since my first post.

The issue here is that your rate Hampson good enough for a 2nd round pick. I don't. He's a crab and next year I'm confident he'll play 4-8 meaningless games, just like he has done for Carlton for 7 years.

We've filled a hole in the list.. But by how much? Is Hampson that much of an upgrade on Stephensen? I don't think so. Others might. But certainly not an upgrade that is worth a 2nd round pick.

Have no issue trading picks, have no issue trading players. I would have happily bundled a combination of our 1st, 2nd rounders, players and the kitchen sink to get a 2nd quality ruckman or the best FWD/RUCK in the game. I'm just not interested in filling the list with a crab and giving up a 2nd round pick to do it makes it even worse.

We've paid overs for Hampson, I would have preferred to use the more valuable asset (pick 28) in a more efficient way, either taking a chance in the draft which has shown there is a chance of success, or trade it for better quality. That's just my opinion.

[Penelope]

No where have i even mentioned how I rate Hampson, not once!
Also, you said that the pick was valuable, using one example of a bloke yet to play a game at AFL level to justify that.

The fact that McBean was pick 33 shows that picks in the late 20s and early 30s are highly valuable.

All Ive said is the the pick is not that valuable due to the low strike rate of getting long term players.

Now you are really hedging your bets as well. If you think he will play 4-6 meaningless games, then isn't that basically saying he should not have even been traded for at all? - which is completely different to trying to argue that there is some great difference in the value of a 2nd round pick compared to a 3rd round pick.

The crux of the issue has been, up till now anyway, the value of a 2nd round pick, or more precisely a pick around 30,, but now you add to the fray that even if there was only a 1% chance of the pick we gave being sucessful, you would still prefer that to to taking Hampson, which again, is that not basically saying you think we should not even have got him?

[TigerLand]

No where have i even mentioned how I rate Hampson, not once!
Also, you said that the pick was valuable, using one example of a bloke yet to play a game at AFL level to justify that.

The fact that McBean was pick 33 shows that picks in the late 20s and early 30s are highly valuable.

All Ive said is the the pick is not that valuable due to the low strike rate of getting long term players.

Now you are really hedging your bets as well. If you think he will play 4-6 meaningless games, then isn't that basically saying he should not have even been traded for at all? - which is completely different to trying to argue that there is some great difference in the value of a 2nd round pick compared to a 3rd round pick.

The crux of the issue has been, up till now anyway, the value of a 2nd round pick, or more precisely a pick around 30,, but now you add to the fray that even if there was only a 1% chance of the pick we gave being sucessful, you would still prefer that to to taking Hampson, which again, is that not basically saying you think we should not even have got him?

I thought I was pretty clear. Apologies as it seems I wasn't. A Pick 28, in my opinion is highly valuable because of the fact you have a chance (what ever it may be) to pick up the type of players I listed in a previous post. I rate that chance more valuable than what ever Hampson brings to the table.

I can only go back to what I originally said and that was Pick 28 is overs for Hampson. I wouldn't have given up anything for Hampson and banked on Stephensen.

Why cause Hampson is a dud. And Pick 28 has a chance not to be one.

I can't be any more clearer for you. If you don't agree than that is life and I'm sure we will both wake up in the morning.

[Judge Roughneck]

Would u say the same if maric does his knee five min into the season ?

How do you propose repairing the non benchmark ruck brigade?

[TigerLand]

Would u say the same if maric does his knee five min into the season ?

How do you propose repairing the non benchmark ruck brigade?

Have no issue with recruiting another ruckman for depth as Derickx clearly isn't good enough, just not Hampson and certainly not for Pick 28.

Can't be giving away 2nd round picks in fear of players doing season ending injuries 5 mins into round 1.

If we pick up Hampson we may as well have kept Angus Graham.

[Judge Roughneck]

While you can't plan for injury as such

You can't go into a season with orren and Derickx as the solo back up

Maric is not a dime a dozen mid/hbf buy a vital cog

While I am not necessary in favor of the trade thosenot in favor don't seem to offer alternative ruck options in terms of trading or draft. Others want to sell the farm for longer / mcvoey. Personally I am trouble d by the notion of losing our first pick

[the claw]

2010 Draft
2   27       North Melbourne   Kieran Harper   North Melbourne   40
2   28       Brisbane   Ryan Lester   Brisbane   38
2   29       West Coast   Scott Lycett   West Coast   10
2   30       Richmond   Jake Batchelor   Richmond   39
2   31       Essendon   Ariel Steinberg   Essendon   0
2   32       Brisbane   Joshua Green   Brisbane   34

2011 Draft
1   26       Richmond   Todd Elton   Richmond   1
    27    Priority   Adelaide   Sam Kerridge   Adelaide   12
    28    Priority   West Coast   Fraser McInnes   West Coast   0
    29    Priority   Fremantle   Alex Forster   Fremantle   1
    30    Compensation   Brisbane   Elliot Yeo   Brisbane   27
2   31       Essendon   Jackson Merrett   Essendon   14
2   32       Geelong   Joel Hamling   Geelong   0

2012 Draft
2   27       GWS   James Stewart   GWS   1
2   28       Hawthorn   Tim O'Brien   Hawthorn   0
2   29       Port Adelaide   Tom Clurey   Port Adelaide   0
2   30       Port Adelaide   Mason Shaw   Port Adelaide   0
2   31       Richmond   Kamdyn Mcintosh   Richmond   0
2   32       Brisbane   Michael Close   Brisbane   0


Not really a who's who.

I just went a couple of picks either side of pick 30, which is actually about what we traded (pick 28 will drop a bit after the free agent picks)

just a tad early dont you think especially among the tall players mentioned there.

i really have to ask if we cant build our list with second rounders how the hell will we ever build what we need.

the second round is a place where very good players are regularly taken and yet we want to forgo not only a chance to take a good player here but want to forgo giviibg ou=rselves the best chance we have of gaining a very good player.

seems we only need to use 1st rounders to build our next premiership on. omly trouble with that it ewill take 20 yrs to bet where we need to get and we will forever chase our tails.

have we as a supporter group not learnt a thing from our horrid recent past.

[Judge Roughneck]

Is it not possible McIntosh Elton bachelor Griffiths astbury hampson

At least a couple are part of success ?

[the claw]

oh while im at it if as it seems most agree and the club as well a genuine ruck option was needed and we just had to take hampson. why did we not offer jolly one yr and then target hampson when he comes out of contract next yr.we didnt have to pay overs we just had to manage the situation better.

we could have got jolly and used pick 28 on a very good promising young ruckman like cameron and actually addrssed the need for the long term.

i will say again you dont trade 2nd rounders  on unproven 7 yr players who quite frankly have struggled fore those entire 7 yrs. who also have shown  serious flaws in their game. its like saying yep its okay to give up p[ick 28 for kent kingsley.

how anyone can say hampson is not a risk based on all of the information we have on hampson is beyond me. we did  have a far better chance of picking up a good to very good player than hoping hampson becomes one.

its really funny the yrs we keep our picks those picks are gold.  the yr we trade out of them they arent worth two bob.

any good recruiter worth his salt will pick good players with top 30 picks and do it regularly.