Jake King announces his retirement [updated]

[lamington]

When you talk about cultural issues at clubs, this is a great example of one at Richmond I reckon.

Putting more worth in a players character than their performance is a massive issue for this club.

He might be the greatest bloke in the world but in 50 years time when they look back at this era King will be seen as a nothing player.

Basically his only achievement is playing 100 games in ordinary teams.

If he is a B or a C grader then what the hell is Deledio? An A grader at the top of the level with Judd, Gary Ablett etc? Hardly.

I think you have to judge players based on positions.

if we're talking midfield then of course the way it would stand is

Ablett: Class of his own
At their prime Judd, Swan, Pendlebury: A+

I'd put Cotch, Lids, Martin as A- and the reason why they haven't been able to break into the top echelon is from being dumped with too much responsibility and duty. There's a common opinion that "leaders should always stand up" and I do agree with this but lets not forget even Gary Ablett in his maiden year at GCS couldn't single handedly drag his team over the line for the most part. Like When he kicked 4 goals, got 41 possessions in 2011 against Adelaide and the team still lost by ~10 goals. The difference being GCS had some raw talent that would do anything for Gary. RFC on the other hand have passengers whom are happy to take a pay check and just casually jog around the ground.

What I can say about King is that he is not one of the passengers whom will just waltz around the ground. He had enough respect for the fans to put in a solid effort every time he was out on the ground.

[DCrane]

Shannon Byrnes retired this week as well with 131 games, 117 goals and played in 2 day and 2 night premierships. I'd say most people would have him as a C grader and yet when you compare careers King isn't fit to shine his boots.

This type of comment especially on a Jakey retirement thread needs to be challenged, it is rubbish.
Byrnes couldn't even get a goal a game taking easy goals at the end of the Geelong express. King played his first 40-50 games as back pocket. So King averaged more than a goal a game as a forward, unlike Byrnes he tackled and trapped the ball inside the f50 not to mention knocking the wind out of any defender who dare lean over to pick the ball up, whereas Shannon Byrnes would be lucky to burst through a wet tissue.

[bojangles17]

I see your point TBR but I don't think the Byrns comparison is  apt.  I think King was the better player. Byrnes was lucky to be carried by a great team. He was exposed when he went to Melbourne and had zero impact.
 I reckon King was a pretty handy small forward. Not magic but knew where the sticks were and chased like a madman. Good character to have around the club and I hope he can stay around in some capacity.

Precisely, tbr is carping as usual leaving out detail and insight! Donald Duck could have played in the FP at Geelong in two flags, how did he go when having to stand on his own two feet, zero impact 

[The Big Richo]

This type of comment especially on a Jakey retirement thread needs to be challenged, it is rubbish.
Byrnes couldn't even get a goal a game taking easy goals at the end of the Geelong express. King played his first 40-50 games as back pocket. So King averaged more than a goal a game as a forward, unlike Byrnes he tackled and trapped the ball inside the f50 not to mention knocking the wind out of any defender who dare lean over to pick the ball up, whereas Shannon Byrnes would be lucky to burst through a wet tissue.

Hate to bring facts into it but career averages on grunt work show King had .05 more tackles per game 2.77 to 2.72, Byrnes more clearances by .06, contested possessions King 5.9 Byrnes 5.15, 1%ers King 1.83, Byrnes .89.

A bees idiot between them on most areas.

[DCrane]

Hate to bring facts into it but career averages on grunt work show King had .05 more tackles per game 2.77 to 2.72, Byrnes more clearances by .06, contested possessions King 5.9 Byrnes 5.15, 1%ers King 1.83, Byrnes .89.

A bees idiot between them on most areas.

Interesting stats TBR and at least you have shifted your position from 'isn't fit to shine his boots' -> 'a bees idiot between them', a much more respectable assessment if you are wanting to compare the two. Double the amount of 1% is a telling stat. I still think most coaches would opt for Kingy for the extra toughness if all of their other stats are so similar.

[Judge Roughneck]

Personably always thought Byrnes was rubbish carried in a good side

When you talk about cultural issues at clubs, this is a great example of one at Richmond I reckon.

Putting more worth in a players character than their performance is a massive issue for this club.

He might be the greatest bloke in the world but in 50 years time when they look back at this era King will be seen as a nothing player.

Basically his only achievement is playing 100 games in ordinary teams.

If he is a B or a C grader then what the hell is Deledio? An A grader at the top of the level with Judd, Gary Ablett etc? Hardly.

I think you have to judge players based on positions.

if we're talking midfield then of course the way it would stand is

Ablett: Class of his own
At their prime Judd, Swan, Pendlebury: A+

I'd put Cotch, Lids, Martin as A- and the reason why they haven't been able to break into the top echelon is from being dumped with too much responsibility and duty. There's a common opinion that "leaders should always stand up" and I do agree with this but lets not forget even Gary Ablett in his maiden year at GCS couldn't single handedly drag his team over the line for the most part. Like When he kicked 4 goals, got 41 possessions in 2011 against Adelaide and the team still lost by ~10 goals. The difference being GCS had some raw talent that would do anything for Gary. RFC on the other hand have passengers whom are happy to take a pay check and just casually jog around the ground.

What I can say about King is that he is not one of the passengers whom will just waltz around the ground. He had enough respect for the fans to put in a solid effort every time he was out on the ground.

Dunno if swan was ever a plus

Judd was as good if not better than gas before op

Imo

[The Big Richo]

Interesting stats TBR and at least you have shifted your position from 'isn't fit to shine his boots' -> 'a bees idiot between them', a much more respectable assessment if you are wanting to compare the two. Double the amount of 1% is a telling stat. I still think most coaches would opt for Kingy for the extra toughness if all of their other stats are so similar.

You're missing the point.

Not talking so much about the specific players, King and Byrnes but the rating of players generally and the tendency of the RFC to overrate mediocre players based on personality not performance.

What I meant when I said couldn't shine his boots was in terms of overall career picture. Byrnes' career far, far, outshines Kings and yet most RFC people would say Byrnes was a C grade player at best.

The same RFC people would say King was a C - B grader.

I believe that is the root of much of the problems of the past 3 decades.

[lamington]

Personably always thought Byrnes was rubbish carried in a good side

When you talk about cultural issues at clubs, this is a great example of one at Richmond I reckon.

Putting more worth in a players character than their performance is a massive issue for this club.

He might be the greatest bloke in the world but in 50 years time when they look back at this era King will be seen as a nothing player.

Basically his only achievement is playing 100 games in ordinary teams.

If he is a B or a C grader then what the hell is Deledio? An A grader at the top of the level with Judd, Gary Ablett etc? Hardly.

I think you have to judge players based on positions.

if we're talking midfield then of course the way it would stand is

Ablett: Class of his own
At their prime Judd, Swan, Pendlebury: A+

I'd put Cotch, Lids, Martin as A- and the reason why they haven't been able to break into the top echelon is from being dumped with too much responsibility and duty. There's a common opinion that "leaders should always stand up" and I do agree with this but lets not forget even Gary Ablett in his maiden year at GCS couldn't single handedly drag his team over the line for the most part. Like When he kicked 4 goals, got 41 possessions in 2011 against Adelaide and the team still lost by ~10 goals. The difference being GCS had some raw talent that would do anything for Gary. RFC on the other hand have passengers whom are happy to take a pay check and just casually jog around the ground.

What I can say about King is that he is not one of the passengers whom will just waltz around the ground. He had enough respect for the fans to put in a solid effort every time he was out on the ground.

Dunno if swan was ever a plus

Judd was as good if not better than gas before op

Imo

i'm happy to respect your opinion on this. I think it's a preference for style of play and how we all see things differently. I personally never thought Judd even at his prime was better than Cousins at his prime.

I really liked Swan in 2010 I thought he should've won the brownlow in that year and Judd in 2011.

[the claw]

id take judd over ablett in his prime.  id rather pendulbury as well. not much between all 3 thats for sure.

[the claw]

funny old thread.

here we have a bloke who fail;ed abysmally as a sml defender. failed juust as badly as a mid and was just plain ordinary as a sml fwd. such a lmited player.yet people justify rating him higher than a d by comparing him to a bloke like byrnes who struggled for continuity in a good side.

stats dont lie ive been told often enough.
jake king as a sml defensive fwd. geez he chases and applies pressure real well by goilly gosh aint that great.it is expected and should be  the norm.
without bringing his stats up i cant be bothered, he is statistically lousy yes lousy.
dumb no smarts lacks polish and over all his performances bordered on mediocrity. nothing but a limited battler who we gave 8 yrs too.  it is laughable at just how much we overate our own.

[Tigeritis™©®]

A very limited player but the ONLY one that I've seen that added the mongrel we so lavked

[eliminator]

A very limited player but the ONLY one that I've seen that added the mongrel we so lavked

Limited player but I have seen far worse play for this club. Was a barometer. If he was playing well team did. Also did a lot of things that stats don't show.

[lamington]

funny old thread.

here we have a bloke who fail;ed abysmally as a sml defender. failed juust as badly as a mid and was just plain ordinary as a sml fwd. such a lmited player.yet people justify rating him higher than a d by comparing him to a bloke like byrnes who struggled for continuity in a good side.

stats dont lie ive been told often enough.
jake king as a sml defensive fwd. geez he chases and applies pressure real well by goilly gosh aint that great.it is expected and should be  the norm.
without bringing his stats up i cant be bothered, he is statistically lousy yes lousy.
dumb no smarts lacks polish and over all his performances bordered on mediocrity. nothing but a limited battler who we gave 8 yrs too.  it is laughable at just how much we overate our own.

Cyril Rioli in his 2012 All-Australian year averaged (Hawthorn made the GF that year)

15.6 disposals, 1.7 goals, 5.3 tackles

Eddie Betts in 2011 when he was in the 40 man squad and almost got All-Australian he was averaging

12.4 disposals, 2.2 goals, 3.5 tackles

and here we have Jake King in 2013 when we made finals, he averaged

11.9  disposals,  1.2 goals, 2.3 tackles


Of course Jake King isn't as good as Eddie Betts, and Rioli. I would argue though Cyril Rioli played in a premiership twice, and had the service of Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis etc to help elevate his disposals and of course if the ball is spending more time in the f50 he's going to have more opportunity to lay a tackle.

Similarly in 2011, Carlton finished 5th. Murphy was playing well and so was Judd and his stats are going to go up as well.

Considering how crap RFC has been I think he's done well and I stand by giving him a B- rating.

Last year, he contributed important goals when we only narrowly beat Carlton in round 1. When the Tigers got pantsed by Geelong last year Push up kicked 4. I'm not saying he's the small forward to have ever played the game but I do think he performed to a B level given how crap the club has been

[The Big Richo]

http://www.afl-meme.com/2014/07/farewell-to-richmond-champion.html

[lamington]

http://www.afl-meme.com/2014/07/farewell-to-richmond-champion.html

He has 4 brownlow votes! But I still lol'd