Author Topic: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million  (Read 22850 times)

Offline blaisee

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 1350
  • For We're From Tigerland
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #105 on: April 05, 2008, 12:58:50 PM »
you know what I reckon

I reckon jack and dutchy have alot in common .  :shh

Offline Bateman

  • Jack Dyer medallist
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2008, 01:01:08 PM »

Can't link the story but get a hold of Chip Le Grand's piece in the Saturday Oz.

After reading it you might as well close this thread.. Holland's claim is exactly what Frawley stated, an opportunity, never a promise or guarantee.

As the goal Umpire would say 'All Clear".



Moi

  • Guest
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #107 on: April 05, 2008, 01:08:25 PM »
you know what I reckon

I reckon jack and dutchy have alot in common .  :shh
How could you compare a disgruntled ex-employee/footballer with Jack ?
 :rollin

You're really stretching reality there, Blaisee lol  ;)

Offline one-eyed

  • Administrator
  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 98251
    • One-Eyed Richmond
Dinner pitch key to lawsuit (The Australian)
« Reply #108 on: April 05, 2008, 02:12:26 PM »

Can't link the story but get a hold of Chip Le Grand's piece in the Saturday Oz.

After reading it you might as well close this thread.. Holland's claim is exactly what Frawley stated, an opportunity, never a promise or guarantee.

As the goal Umpire would say 'All Clear".
Cheers Bateman  :cheers. Here's the article ....

---------------------------
Dinner pitch key to lawsuit
By Chip Le Grand
April 05, 2008

BEN Holland makes an unlikely victim. For 13 years, he has played football for a living. He has been paid well. Some would say too well. Within football circles he is depicted as a mercenary more interested in the colour of money than the colours of his club.

Yet Holland says his lawsuit against the Richmond Football Club and former club president Clinton Casey is more about principle than money. Put simply, Holland claims Clinton made promises in the heat of contract negotiations he never kept.

"They have enticed me to stay by dangling a carrot and they haven't delivered the goods," Holland said. "People made promises and representations. I know for a fact I am not the only one out there that it has happened to. I have had calls from other players. Clubs have to be more accountable for what they say to entice players to stay."

When Holland was hot, there was nothing Richmond wouldn't say or do to keep him. Once he was shot, that commitment snapped as quickly as the cruciate ligament inside his left knee.

When Holland told Richmond on the eve of the 2001 trade period that he had accepted a $1.33 million offer to play for Adelaide for the next three years, such was coach Danny Frawley's volcanic reaction that Holland's manager, Greg Griffin, feared for his life.

Richmond could pay Holland no more than $800,000 over the same period, due to salary-cap restraints, but Frawley and Casey, in a desperate bid to keep him, made one last pitch during a dinner with Holland and his father, John, at a Japanese restaurant.

What was said at that dinner is now the subject of Holland versus Clinton Casey and the Richmond Football Club. A writ has been lodged before the Victorian Supreme Court. Casey and Richmond are waiting to be served. If the case proceeds to trial, it will come down to who to believe.

On October 6, 2001, four men shared a meal and struck a deal. Ben and John Holland swear certain promises were made. Richmond insists they were not.

The promises in question are documented in copious notes taken by the Holland family but not confirmed in writing by the club. They include an opportunity to buy land and shares. Holland further his podiatry business at aged care facilities operated by Casey. Casey would advise Holland's business interests and investments.

According to Holland, the message was clear: "It was, you are not going to be at a loss by staying at the Richmond Football Club. Clinton Casey is a very successful businessman and he can help you out with financial advice and business opportunities. He was going to be like a financial planner."

Whatever Casey said, Richmond got its man. By Monday morning, Holland re-signed. Adelaide football manager John Reid was flabbergasted. Mark Brayshaw, Richmond's then chief executive, heralded the triumph of loyalty over lucre.

Quipped Griffin: "You have got a player who suddenly takes $530,000 less as a consequence of a coffee at Koko's? It must have been a pretty good coffee."

All Holland received in addition to his agreed salary was $4000 in podiatry services. He claims he was never given the opportunity to buy a block of land in Casey's Sandhurst development or to buy shares. Nor was he ever "mentored" by Casey.

"I would have gone to Casey's office once a month demanding to get involved in these projects," Holland said. "They were always coming but never came through. Other players got parcels of land at Sandhurst. I wanted to get involved but it never eventuated. Nothing ever happened."

Had Holland stayed fit and played good football for the next three years, things might have worked out. Instead, his prospects altered dramatically at Subiaco Oval on April 21, 2002, when his left knee buckled in a marking contest.

"He missed the best part of 2002 and when he came back in 2003 it was pretty clear he wasn't a priority in the eyes of Richmond," Griffin said. "I think it was just a case of Casey and Richmond determining there were other players more worthy of being given the commercial opportunities Ben had been promised."

Holland was traded to Melbourne at the end of the 2003 season, since when, his grievance against Casey has been an open secret.

In 2004, he threatened Casey with legal action. That same year, then AFL football operations manager Andrew Demetriou quizzed Holland and Brayshaw on whether his contract with Richmond breached the salary cap. The case re-emerged on Thursday night, when the Nine Network's The Footy Show obtained a copy of Holland's writ. Griffin said the writ was lodged to keep the case within statutory time limits. Richmond and Casey won't be served until the end of this season, when Holland retires as an AFL player.

Richmond chief executive Steven Wright said the club would contest the claim.

"The preliminary advice we have received is they are without foundation and we will vigorously defend those allegations," he said.

It is not clear whether a successful lawsuit will have salary-cap implications for Richmond. Demetriou is concerned it might and has instructed football operations manager Adrian Anderson to investigate the claims. Griffin and Holland believe the undertakings given by Casey don't breach the salary cap.

"The AFL has been aware of the fact for a long time that various club presidents try to create business opportunities and financial opportunities for marquee players," Griffin said. "This has happened 100 times. The difference this time is it didn't happen."

Holland will win no friends at AFL House by pressing his claims. He also appears to have several holes in his case.

The first is the lack of written evidence. The Holland family notes, although detailed, were taken after the fact.

Richmond has found no record of a commercial commitment from Casey to Holland in its 2001 board minutes and Garry Cameron, the only current director serving then, has told president Gary March the issue was never discussed at board level.

In the absence of other documents, Griffin will lean heavily on a letter from Casey to Holland dated October 16, in which he makes non-specific promises to "identify business opportunities" for Holland.

The second hole the fact that Holland and Brayshaw, when questioned at the time about the contract by Demetriou, said that no deal had been struck outside the salary cap.

"When they left my office I thought this was a dead issue," Demetriou said on Melbourne Radio 3AW yesterday.

AFL investigator Ken Wood has subsequently completed an audit of property deals involving Richmond players. In all cases, the players paid market price for the land parcels in question.

The third hole the fact that Holland's case has been in limbo for the best part of four years, is, despite Griffin's explanation for the timing of the writ. Griffin tried to settle the case through correspondence with Casey in 2004, but no further action appears to have been taken until late last year.

Frawley, Brayshaw, Casey and almost the entire board have left the club in the intervening years.

Holland confirmed his meeting with Demetriou but insisted his claims were never properly examined by the AFL.

"Andrew was interested in third-party payments," he said. "The representations made by Richmond were more about investment opportunities and business opportunities."

He denied exhuming an old grievance against Casey.

"I am not just pushing this now. I have been pushing it from the moment Casey first made his representations. It has been there constantly for the past six years.

"It is not really against the Richmond Football Club. It is about the representations they made through Clinton Casey. I am still very fond of the footy club. I just want to hold them accountable for what they say."

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23488173-23211,00.html

Little Jackie

  • Guest
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #109 on: April 05, 2008, 02:53:16 PM »
you know what I reckon

I reckon jack and dutchy have alot in common .  :shh
How could you compare a disgruntled ex-employee/footballer with Jack ?
 :rollin

You're really stretching reality there, Blaisee lol  ;)


I am not disgruntled at all. Moi , GET OVER IT!
Not my fault the RFC is what it is.

For what is worth, I voted for the current board and am now spewing that I did :chuck
If I knew what I know now, never in a ""milllion years "" would I have voted for them

Little Jackie

  • Guest
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #110 on: April 05, 2008, 02:55:26 PM »

Its disingenuous to say you voted for the current board. You voted for Casey and Miller, ....

Haha! The old "I'm bitter so you're stupid" argument.  ;D  ;) The board election was more than 3 years ago. You need to get over it.

Casey got the 3rd highest number of votes, so more hands will be going up than not. Mine's up.

I took my vote seriously and considered my options. I considered what I thought was best for my club on the information and profiles available. That ended up being the whole Casey ticket and I'm comfortable with it.

I'll get it over it when we're playing finals mate.

Until then, a simple case of I told you so.

Stuck with Miller for life thanks to the conscientious masses lke yourself.

For those that voted for Casey and Miller, dont have a go at Holland. Because this is the way Casey did business.



me and 1980 agreeing, wooooooo
Totally agree

Little Jackie

  • Guest
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #111 on: April 05, 2008, 03:00:12 PM »
i actually agree with Ben Holland , reckon he has case , knowing what goes on at footballl clubs

Ramps

  • Guest
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #112 on: April 05, 2008, 03:00:44 PM »
the key question is what is the appropriate response, the club deep down in there hearts would know what was agreed and they would know if Holland has a chance of winning his case. For mine, if the club believes that theres a chance we could lose this case and therefore suffer draft penalties and financial penalties on top from the AFL other than court damages, the club should be making plans of basically cutting back the list even of the senior players so the club can bring in 10 to 12 kids at the end of this year. From what I read Holland doesnt intend to serve the court papers until september anyway. In September and October we need to trade what we can picks.

Offline blaisee

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 1350
  • For We're From Tigerland
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #113 on: April 05, 2008, 03:27:47 PM »
i actually agree with Ben Holland , reckon he has case , knowing what goes on at footballl clubs

of course you do.

you have a lot in common ;)

Offline Fishfinger

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 2465
  • You can't put brains in an idiot
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #114 on: April 05, 2008, 03:30:10 PM »

For what is worth, I voted for the current board and am now spewing that I did :chuck
If I knew what I know now, never in a ""milllion years "" would I have voted for them

Like what?
It's 50 of one and half a dozen of the other - Don Scott

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58597
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #115 on: April 05, 2008, 06:14:21 PM »
have no hesitation in saying I voted for the Casey ticket as the alternative was... well it wasn't a credible alternative IMV

BTW The current board is the Casey ticket minus Casey ;D and they have done a great job in the last couple of years ... dare I say it ....FACT  :rollin

Its a fact when there is a premiership cup in the cupboard. Not wooden spoons.

Its disingenuous to say you voted for the current board. You voted for Casey and Miller, both of whom are entirely discredited

Come on MT, put your hand up
Like WP I don't sway away from voting for the Casey ticket. Seriously the Big 4 ticket challenge or whatever it was called was a joke. They wanted to take us back to 1999  :help. I'm comfortable with my choice given the stability, long-term planning including improved and more facilities, and sound financial progress which hadn't existed at Punt Rd for 25 years prior to 2005. Sure this improved off-field position hasn't transferred to on-field yet but it was always going to be a long-haul going down the youth path from where we were.

And I did vote for the entire board. Although there were two 9 person tickets, we all could vote for individual candidates. 8 of those 9 are still there and Penny Haines >>> Casey. There's been no challenges (anyone would be silly challenging a $1 million profit).

Those who voted for the other ticket should also put their hand up for supporting Schwab and co who were also on the board along with Casey when these idiotic decisions were made.

Didnt Schwab and co resign from the board because idiotic decision were being made, were made by Casey without board approval?

Yes.

Casey was doing deals, running the club on his own, and ignoring the board. Deals like the one Holland is suing about.

I voted against them because I didnt want Miller on the board because he is a dud, was a dud at North and nearly bankrupted them as interim CEO, and as our player development has shown since Miller, we have a crap list.

And you cant sack him now he is on the board. 
 
Miller as football director has loaded our player list full of non starters like Meyer, and nobodies like JON, and now the talk is about 2011 thanks to this tool.

That was their excuse but Schwab and Welsh were on the board for what 5 years. IIRC Schwab was in his 6th year. It doesn't take 5 years to figure out how someone else operates. They also were on the board that approved the large contract boosts for Holland and Gas at the end of 2001 so they aren't innocent either as far as poor decisions go or did they sit on the board doing nothing for 5 years. Then they ran. Glad them and Casey are all gone.

Miller could have been challenged for his spot on the board at the end of last year as his 3-year term was up. So he could have been tossed off. However nobody did challenge. 
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58597
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #116 on: April 05, 2008, 06:18:18 PM »
I felt that both tenures still misguidedly equated profit to on-field success. Sure Daphne made small profits and after Neville Crowe got us back in the black but the fear of SOS still lingered over the club in its decision making. An attitude of it's better off being mediocre than making the tough decisions and taking a hit for the long-term good (a la promising action yet doing nothing after the disaster of R22 1998 and then signing up Daffy, Richo, Knights and Cambo to $$$ long contracts in 1999 which came back to bite the club especially with Daffy). Off-field sure the JDF was set up but boosting expenditure in key areas like improving facilities and recruiting was kept to a minimum so we kept our heads above water. We were also a laughing stock going through 4 coaches in 5 years that only Spud wanted to coach us. Casey on the other hand did increase expenditure. Problem was with money we didn't have hoping spending more money on the (dud) footy dept would pay dividends as it did in 2001 when we made the finals (3 years and a $3m loss later it obviously didn't). We finally have a board and more importantly a CEO who can deliver profits independent of on-field results (and thank god for that) and can stick to a long-term objective.

Politically the alternative ticket had the front running but they stumbled about and were indecisive allowing Casey with Miller's help to eventually trump them. The threat of a EGM and a takeover (no election) was poorly managed as the average member wanted their say in an election (there hadn't been one in years except for Cornel Sanders losing out to Matthies in 2003). Their publications were too handwavey and lacking in detail on how they would achieve targets. I still have their brochure somewhere and the first paragraph was a glowing endorcement of the state of the club in 1999. IMO it was embarrassing. They spent too much time being anti-Casey talking about the past rather than just focussing on the future. The fact they lost what should have been an unloseable election is a sad indictment on how poorly they managed their campaign. I'm glad they didn't get anywhere near the boardroom. I'm not unhappy either that Casey stood down a year later.

Anyway that's now ancient history and we all want what's best for the club in the future. They main thing now is to see what happens with Holland's writ and hope we don't get screwed at the draft table  :-\
I'm not going to disagree with anything you said. The election was certainly poorly managed by the rebels and in hindsight the reason was most likely that they weren't any more capable than the incumbent board.  But at least the action of forcing the issues into the open and holding the election brought Casey's shortcomings to the top for everyone to analyse.  I think if I am honest with myself, the main reason I was so vehemently anti-Casey was the thought that if he remained in control for any longer (and I'm talking a short time) then we wouldn't have had a club left to support.  And the election did force him to bring in new faces (Casey's attempts were nearly as amateurish as Schwab's - it was almost like 'rent-a-board') that eroded his powerbase, signalling the end of his 'reign'.  Anyway, as you say, it's all history now but I felt I needed to respond when another poster suggested that no-one was prepared to stand up at the time - I most certainly did and thankfully my fears were largely proved unfounded.
 :gotigers
Yep smokey whatever the cause the club was better off having an all position open election. The members finally got to have a say instead of the club being the plaything of an elite few while the rest of us and the club itself was screwed.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline mightytiges

  • RFC Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 58597
  • Eat 'Em Alive!
    • oneeyed-richmond.com
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #117 on: April 05, 2008, 06:34:17 PM »
out of interest does anyone actually believe holland is talking the truth?

i mean it sounds like a bit of heresay which is very hard to prove i would've thought.
If there is any truth then Holland would be deregistered himself. Gives a reason why he didn't want this to come out until he finished AFL football.

Listening to Kennett earlier today he reckons a 10-20% discount on market rates is a fair enough transaction by a club but if it got out to 50% then it would be suss. Even if we are found innocent all this could cause the proverbial to hit the fan as all clubs offer things on the side. It's a very grey area. What exactly is an "opportunity" and what's a salary cap breach. Going by the media reports today,  which most put us in the clear, the club will argue it offered Holland commerical opportunities which isn't a salry cap breach provided it's a realistic commerical transaction. Shares go up and down, land can also go down (although not over the past 5 years) and players are allowed to work.

The biggest news today is Adelaide saying the 1.33m statement is an exaggeration and they are not going to go back over the past. So where does that leave Holland's claims? Did Adelaide promise something they couldn't deliver like we found out later Freo did with Gas.
All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be - Pink Floyd

Offline mjs

  • Premiership Captain
  • ****
  • Posts: 497
  • For We're From Tigerland
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #118 on: April 05, 2008, 10:32:41 PM »
Miller could have been challenged for his spot on the board at the end of last year as his 3-year term was up. So he could have been tossed off. However nobody did challenge. 

True - but it doesn't make it right - nobody wants to call it now because it would be disruptive and basically put Miller in an untenable position.


Little Jackie

  • Guest
Re: Ben Holland suing RFC and Clinton Casey for half a million
« Reply #119 on: April 05, 2008, 10:36:40 PM »
i actually agree with Ben Holland , reckon he has case , knowing what goes on at footballl clubs

of course you do.

you have a lot in common ;)
You wouldnt know, pointless arguing with an imbecile like you Blaisee