Tiger baiting (Age)

[tiga]

Labor has stuffed up the country both state and federally. I love the latest "Super Profits Tax" that only taxes the resources sector, a sector which pretty much kept this country afloat during the GFC and who already pay hefty royalties. Now, investors are running scared and future mining projects are being halted. Good one Wayne Swan (or is that Goose). And don't get me started on Kevin Kyoto-Copenhagen or the Ginger Ninja. Clowns the lot of them.  
As for a vote for the greens....Might as well flush my ballot form down the toilet...same result. Open your eyes, stop using Chernobyl as an excuse, and start looking at the logic of modern Nuclear Power.

The genuine argument against this is that a lot of peoples superannuation is sunk into these industries, hitting it with taxes will slow the super down, including mine.  However, there are other issues at stake that are not being talked about.  The fact is that the resources sector needs to be slowed down a tad for a few reasons.  Flogging our national resources to Communist China that is in the middle of a massive military modernisation / expansion program.  There is also the issue of foreign investment.  Basically China is determined to gain controlling interests in mining operations in one company or other.  They failed the first time because of conflict of interests but they will try again via proxies.  Mega taxes will ensure there is no escape from paying for our resources.
Regarding Chernobyl   Population was around 50,000, city uninhabitable for six hundred years.... effects felt across a huge area, pretty good excuse imo.  Despite that, they have a massive problem storing all the crap left over from Nuclear power plants.  They were trying to dump it on Australia for a while but we said no, they have basically got no where to put it and it has a half life of forever and is as toxic as the contents of my kitty litter tray.  Politicians in the country are in bed with Coal so we won't see Nuclear or alternative energy in a big way anyway.  For some reason our elected representatives don't do what we want them to.

Owl I referred to modern Nuclear power not "cold war" nuclear power. So much has changed in fact the whole process has changed. waste has been reduced massively and efficiency increased. Take Japan for example, they have over 50 Nuclear power plants built on modern technology and not even a whisper of a meltown. Times have changed. Maybe you need to visit a Nuclear reactor and get in touch with modern methods. I have been to ANSTO for a tour and the information I gathered from that visit was invaluable and really opened my eyes to nuclear power as a genuine alternative to fossil fuels. Its clean, cheap and now undoubtedly SAFE!!

[Tigeritis™©®]

ok '65

maybe I used the wrong word then.

If I said "You can suck my dick", but I don't mean literally but I literally mean, "You can go and get stuffed".

what is it that I am doing if not speaking metaphorically? 

[Penelope]

The mining giants may baulk and carry on at the moment but at the end of the day they will suck it and absorb it.

At whose cost?  At the cost of a couple of workers that puts more pressure on the workers that leads to shortcuts to get the job done and extra pressure that may lead to accidents?
Most probably at the cost of shareholders. In Australia miners are pretty heavily regulated in terms of OH&S, plus the unions still seem to have some clout, so I doubt it will be at the expense of on site numbers

The extra costs and dangers of running mining operations in many other countries will still make Australia an attractive investment option.

Compared to which contries?  The big wigs care about reputation and efficiency.  Mining operations pretty well do what they want in some countries, particularly Africa and Asia.  Australia would be one of the most costly regions for operations I would think.

Yet they still heavily invest here. the one thing where we have a huge advantage is politcal stability.
As you point to, in many countries things such as wages and royalities are lower as is the value of the currency, which makes exporting much more appealing, and politicians are much easier bribed, yet these companies still invest heavily in Australia. Perhaps you could argue that this will be straw that breaks the camels back, but I doubt it

If they do decide to leave our resources in the ground a little longer, then these resources will only become more valuable over time. The worlds resources are finite and as they diminish in volume those left behind become more valuable.

It's not bad logic but it's still a kick in the pants for current mining workers who will be wondering about the longevity of their jobs. Pretty sure I heard that the tax will not apply to current ventures, so no jobs should be lost.

This super tax proposal is only part of a wider range of changes to the tax system, as recommended by the Henry Report, that is meant to reduce the tax burden on the rest of us.

But will it equal tax relief for the average Joe, really?

Good question, which is why i used the term 'meant to'. One of the other elements is a cut to the company tax rate. The reality is that this will probably just increase the profits for larger business without any real price drops, but it will still benefit a lot of small businesses, as there are quite a number that are actually a company rather that a sole trader.

The other aspect to this is will it prevent a tax hike somewhere else? Sadly that can probably never be quantified one way or the other.



THat all said I don't pretend to be an expert, these are my impressions from someone who has never worked at a mine.

Tiga, it is disconcerting that they only adopt part of the review. Politicians just love to cherry pick. Like the govt dismissing out of hand the study that has shown there has been no decrease in sales of "unhealthy" items or increase in sales of "healthy" items at community stores and therefore welfare quarantining is not working.

All governments do this sort of poo, and the problem is that when it happens a large number of people ignore it because it's their side, and another large group of people want to jump up and down and make a scene because it gives them a chance to bag the other side. When the government changes the roles reverse.

[Owl]

Labor has stuffed up the country both state and federally. I love the latest "Super Profits Tax" that only taxes the resources sector, a sector which pretty much kept this country afloat during the GFC and who already pay hefty royalties. Now, investors are running scared and future mining projects are being halted. Good one Wayne Swan (or is that Goose). And don't get me started on Kevin Kyoto-Copenhagen or the Ginger Ninja. Clowns the lot of them.  
As for a vote for the greens....Might as well flush my ballot form down the toilet...same result. Open your eyes, stop using Chernobyl as an excuse, and start looking at the logic of modern Nuclear Power.

The genuine argument against this is that a lot of peoples superannuation is sunk into these industries, hitting it with taxes will slow the super down, including mine.  However, there are other issues at stake that are not being talked about.  The fact is that the resources sector needs to be slowed down a tad for a few reasons.  Flogging our national resources to Communist China that is in the middle of a massive military modernisation / expansion program.  There is also the issue of foreign investment.  Basically China is determined to gain controlling interests in mining operations in one company or other.  They failed the first time because of conflict of interests but they will try again via proxies.  Mega taxes will ensure there is no escape from paying for our resources.
Regarding Chernobyl   Population was around 50,000, city uninhabitable for six hundred years.... effects felt across a huge area, pretty good excuse imo.  Despite that, they have a massive problem storing all the crap left over from Nuclear power plants.  They were trying to dump it on Australia for a while but we said no, they have basically got no where to put it and it has a half life of forever and is as toxic as the contents of my kitty litter tray.  Politicians in the country are in bed with Coal so we won't see Nuclear or alternative energy in a big way anyway.  For some reason our elected representatives don't do what we want them to.

Owl I referred to modern Nuclear power not "cold war" nuclear power. So much has changed in fact the whole process has changed. waste has been reduced massively and efficiency increased. Take Japan for example, they have over 50 Nuclear power plants built on modern technology and not even a whisper of a meltown. Times have changed. Maybe you need to visit a Nuclear reactor and get in touch with modern methods. I have been to ANSTO for a tour and the information I gathered from that visit was invaluable and really opened my eyes to nuclear power as a genuine alternative to fossil fuels. Its clean, cheap and now undoubtedly SAFE!!

Granted Chernobyl was a pre-1980 soviet design but three mile island was a western design with fail safes.  
They have definately improved the technology but there is still nasty waste, though reduced.  Some of the stuff they are working on now like the Caeser and thorium reactors look impressive.  Gen V stuff is sci fi but wow if they can get it going...sign me up and call me glowy

[Gordon Bennett]

sorry i missed the e

by the quality of your posting I thought you'd taken one.

[WA Tiger]

The mining giants may baulk and carry on at the moment but at the end of the day they will suck it and absorb it. The extra costs and dangers of running mining operations in many other countries will still make Australia an attractive investment option.

If they do decide to leave our resources in the ground a little longer, then these resources will only become more valuable over time. The worlds resources are finite and as they diminish in volume those left behind become more valuable.

This super tax proposal is only part of a wider range of changes to the tax system, as recommended by the Henry Report, that is meant to reduce the tax burden on the rest of us.

Sorry Al I can not agree with your comments saying the Mining Giants will suck it up, Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. I can tell you mate they will not just suck it and absorb it, they do not work like that.

[Carvels Ring]

Tigra, yr speaking figuratively, not metaphorically.  And rather rudely too.

[Owl]

That tax is only a pipe dream atm it still has to get through the cockblocked senate. So if Rio Tinto have put the kaibosh on something it must be for other reasons smells of shop stewards calling strike basically.  The irony is delicious.  My old man mined iron ore near Dampier for years, think it was Tom Price.  I wonder what will happen to us when all our resources are gone offshore?  No manufacturing, no resources, nothing else going for us, I would say we would be bout stuffed.  Not even the goods to recycle lol.

[WA Tiger]

That tax is only a pipe dream atm it still has to get through the cockblocked senate. So if Rio Tinto have put the kaibosh on something it must be for other reasons smells of shop stewards calling strike basically.  The irony is delicious.  My old man mined iron ore near Dampier for years, think it was Tom Price.  I wonder what will happen to us when all our resources are gone offshore?  No manufacturing, no resources, nothing else going for us, I would say we would be bout stuffed.  Not even the goods to recycle lol.

Owl, Brockman 4 was all go, I was there as well as all other Rio Tinto sites throughout the Pilbara, as well as that Unions are no longer a part of Mining over here as they are in the East (Queenslad in particular). There are about 3-4 unionised members on each Rio site and they say nothing, it's not like it was in the 80's & 90's.

I was based in Paraburdoo which is 80kmh from Tom Price, No Unions here anymore mate. They pulled out (of the expansions) because of the proposed tax and I can tell you a lot lot lot of jobs will be lost if the tax is passed.

Off shore companies are now rubbing their dirty little hands together because they can now force the price of Iron Ore down in China and in turn sell more of their crap off. Rio, BHP, FMG and the like up until this point in time have controlled Iron Ore prices world wide and that is why this Country has flourished..... watch what happens if the tax comes in.

[WilliamPowell]

Unfortunately, many of those who did are not yet old enough to have experienced the wanton destruction associated with those type of governments throughout our history.  They are learning their lesson as we speak.

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

[Go Richo 12]

Unfortunately, many of those who did are not yet old enough to have experienced the wanton destruction associated with those type of governments throughout our history.  They are learning their lesson as we speak.

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

Gough Whitlam too! Establishing the no fault fault divorce law, family law court, medicare, free tertiary education etc! A man well and truly before his time!

[Go Richo 12]

The mining giants may baulk and carry on at the moment but at the end of the day they will suck it and absorb it. The extra costs and dangers of running mining operations in many other countries will still make Australia an attractive investment option.

If they do decide to leave our resources in the ground a little longer, then these resources will only become more valuable over time. The worlds resources are finite and as they diminish in volume those left behind become more valuable.

This super tax proposal is only part of a wider range of changes to the tax system, as recommended by the Henry Report, that is meant to reduce the tax burden on the rest of us.

Sorry Al I can not agree with your comments saying the Mining Giants will suck it up, Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. I can tell you mate they will not just suck it and absorb it, they do not work like that.

I think we will all find that the mining giants are not pulling the pin on new projects due to the new tax but more so because of the financial crisis in Greece and Spain. It is thought by many economist to have the potential to cause a financial crisis worse than the last one! That is why the resources shares are losing value, not just in Australia, but world wide!

[WA Tiger]

The mining giants may baulk and carry on at the moment but at the end of the day they will suck it and absorb it. The extra costs and dangers of running mining operations in many other countries will still make Australia an attractive investment option.

If they do decide to leave our resources in the ground a little longer, then these resources will only become more valuable over time. The worlds resources are finite and as they diminish in volume those left behind become more valuable.

This super tax proposal is only part of a wider range of changes to the tax system, as recommended by the Henry Report, that is meant to reduce the tax burden on the rest of us.

Sorry Al I can not agree with your comments saying the Mining Giants will suck it up, Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. I can tell you mate they will not just suck it and absorb it, they do not work like that.

I think we will all find that the mining giants are not pulling the pin on new projects due to the new tax but more so because of the financial crisis in Greece and Spain. It is thought by many economist to have the potential to cause a financial crisis worse than the last one! That is why the resources shares are losing value, not just in Australia, but world wide!

No GR12 sorry but not true, I havent even been out a year and I still communicate with many friends and work associates throughout mining. I can assure the financial crisis is over in mining, it just hasn't been a big as issue as when the down turn occured.

At Christmas time last year I was instructed to lay off 15 contract personnel as the global crisis was about to or was occuring, directly after Christmas in less than 2 weeks I was instructed to employ 16 contract employees and it has never ramped down. What people dont understand is that within the Pilbara we have the best crap (so to speak) Iron Ore in the world, we can combine that product with top grade Iron Ore from our other Pilbara deposits to come out with the best grade for export that is mixed with other Ore from around the word that in turn goes even further. In short, our ore is just about the highest demanded ore in the world.

The mining giants are not stupid, they are biding their time, but that time will never come if the 40% tax comes in.

But believe what you will, all I am trying to say is that I have jsut lived it for 25 years..

P.S we used to have a laugh at what the so called econimists were saying, because most of the time nothing they said happened.

[Smokey]

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

A man for the moment WP, nothing more, nothing less.  Wartime politics transcended left vs right more than at any other time in our history and for all his leftist background and sympathies, his Achilles heel during the war were his own unions.

[3rogerd]

Unfortunately, many of those who did are not yet old enough to have experienced the wanton destruction associated with those type of governments throughout our history.  They are learning their lesson as we speak.

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

great post.