Tiger baiting (Age)

[DCrane]

Australian mining companies have never had it so good as they did when their cheersquad the Liberal Party was in charge. The good times can't last forever, everyone with even a basic education in economics would know this. So it is time that the industry was looked at.
Rio posted a 33% increase in profit (of nearly $5billion!) last year. BHP posted a $6.5 billion profit in the last 6 months of 2009 alone.
Nearly half of this profit is taken directly off shore, how exactly does that benefit Australia?
I'm all for it, in fact I don't think it goes far enough.

Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. .

WAT I think these are just idle threats being made by the mining bosses to try and scare Canberra. And going by the full page ads placed by them in the age and the hun today it looks like they are trying on the scare campaign to the general public.

I can tell you mate they will not just suck it and absorb it, they do not work like that

Spot on WAT
This tax is an impost on the wealthy, but unfortunately it is them who will make everyone else pay for it, in the form of charging higher rates for it's minerals, sacking innocent workers and paying the existing ones less.  
Because there is no way known that these fatcats are gunna let these commo bastards steal what's rightfully theirs!

makes Australia da
sorry i missed the e

by the quality of your posting I thought you'd taken one.

Post of the year so far

To all of you Andrew Bolt loving, SUV driving, stockmarket watching wannabes on OER, who probably stand to lose a couple of dollars off the value of their portfolio/super fund, I salute you for your greed and ignorance. In fact I would like to apologise for being a mere worker on award wages, I must be such a drain on you all for asking for a 3% pay rise each year. Maybe I can cut back on some things and accept the 2.5% offer instead  

DallasCrane

[Smokey]

Gough Whitlam too! Establishing the no fault fault divorce law, family law court, medicare, free tertiary education etc! A man well and truly before his time!

Please GR12!  He was the greatest loose cannon our country has ever had as Prime Minister.  All action and no thought - not the way I want my country governed, regardless of political persuasion.

[WA Tiger]

Australian mining companies have never had it so good as they did when their cheersquad the Liberal Party was in charge. The good times can't last forever, everyone with even a basic education in economics would know this. So it is time that the industry was looked at.
Rio posted a 33% increase in profit (of nearly $5billion!) last year. BHP posted a $6.5 billion profit in the last 6 months of 2009 alone.
Nearly half of this profit is taken directly off shore, how exactly does that benefit Australia?
I'm all for it, in fact I don't think it goes far enough.

Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. .

WAT I think these are just idle threats being made by the mining bosses to try and scare Canberra. And going by the full page ads placed by them in the age and the hun today it looks like they are trying on the scare campaign to the general public.

I can tell you mate they will not just suck it and absorb it, they do not work like that

Spot on WAT
This tax is an impost on the wealthy, but unfortunately it is them who will make everyone else pay for it, in the form of charging higher rates for it's minerals, sacking innocent workers and paying the existing ones less.  
Because there is no way known that these fatcats are gunna let these commo bastards steal what's rightfully theirs!

Forget the percentages of profit or where the profit goes, I will tell you that the jobs created by mining companies benifit this Country and that will dry up, in turn housing development and first home buyers will suffer, families will suffer. Business outside of mining that miners support will suffer. Aboriginal employment and development will suffer. You need to be in it to see the way mining companies support communities and employees. It's a massive snowball that could potentially roll over this Country. Most of our comodities and resources go off shore and then are re-sold to us, so I don't think focusing on Mining alone is the way to go.

[DCrane]

I agree, the banks should be next. They haven't even got a leg to stand on.

[WA Tiger]

I agree, the banks should be next. They haven't even got a leg to stand on.

Gee don't even get me started on banks....I..... please don't get me going...

[Smokey]

Australian mining companies have never had it so good as they did when their cheersquad the Liberal Party was in charge. The good times can't last forever, everyone with even a basic education in economics would know this.

Anyone with a substantially less than basic education in economics would also know that the way to deal with an economic crisis is not to splash out and spend your hard-earned savings in one fell swoop and expose yourself to the influences and vagaries of every other 2-bit economy in the world.  If our government had managed our country's savings prudently 18 months ago then they would have no need to consider imposing such a debilitating and worker-unfriendly tax.

So it is time that the industry was looked at.
Rio posted a 33% increase in profit (of nearly $5billion!) last year. BHP posted a $6.5 billion profit in the last 6 months of 2009 alone.
Nearly half of this profit is taken directly off shore, how exactly does that benefit Australia?
I'm all for it, in fact I don't think it goes far enough.

Do you have any idea how much capital investment it takes to produce this type of profit?  Where do you think all the flow on from the billions and billions of dollars spent earning this profit goes?  Into the pockets of everyday workers like yourself though all the infrastructure expenditure needed to support the industry, all over the country.  You should be very mindful of the wise old adage regarding biting the hand of the one that feeds you.

Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. .

WAT I think these are just idle threats being made by the mining bosses to try and scare Canberra. And going by the full page ads placed by them in the age and the hun today it looks like they are trying on the scare campaign to the general public.

Nope, they will close a mine down as quick as you can snap your fingers.  My son works in a mine in the NT and they closed it down almost overnight for nearly 12 months recently because the price of resources dropped below their acceptable margin.  Don't kid yourself, they will only play bluff to a certain point.  After that it's every man for himself and it costs them a pittance to leave their 'gold' in the ground, it ain't going anywhere and they will just bide their time......dare I say it.....until a new government comes in?

This tax is an impost on the wealthy, but unfortunately it is them who will make everyone else pay for it, in the form of charging higher rates for it's minerals, sacking innocent workers and paying the existing ones less. 
Because there is no way known that these fatcats are gunna let these commo bastards steal what's rightfully theirs!

What a cliche, so Neanderthal it's funny.  I suppose they will use some of their mega-wealth to pay someone (on under award wages of course) to check the underneath of their beds for commies each night.   

Post of the year so far

To all of you Andrew Bolt loving, SUV driving, stockmarket watching wannabes on OER, who probably stand to lose a couple of dollars off the value of their portfolio/super fund, I salute you for your greed and ignorance. In fact I would like to apologise for being a mere worker on award wages, I must be such a drain on you all for asking for a 3% pay rise each year. Maybe I can cut back on some things and accept the 2.5% offer instead 

DallasCrane

I also work for a wage that I negotiated individually with my employer and both parties are happy with the arrangement.  And I refuse to tow any union-driven party line that directs me to accept conditions that support lazy sloths in my company and industry that bludge on the hard work of others.  And I will go to my boss to ask for a rise that I think is fair when I think its time.  And I don't own a car, or own shares, or even have a super portfolio that would support me for a year, let alone a lifetime.  So don't trot out your soapbox of the ages and proclaim it's the rich industrialist world against us workers - it's dated, it's irrelevant and it's demeaning to you as an adult capable of choices - free and individual thought.

And as for Andrew Bolt?  He has only ever worked for one political party in this country - I'll leave it to you to guess which one.

[Owl]

Australian mining companies have never had it so good as they did when their cheersquad the Liberal Party was in charge. The good times can't last forever, everyone with even a basic education in economics would know this. So it is time that the industry was looked at.
Rio posted a 33% increase in profit (of nearly $5billion!) last year. BHP posted a $6.5 billion profit in the last 6 months of 2009 alone.
Nearly half of this profit is taken directly off shore, how exactly does that benefit Australia?
I'm all for it, in fact I don't think it goes far enough.

Rio Tinto (who I worked for) have just pulled the plug on an 11.2 Billion Dollar upgrade of their Brockman 4 Mine in the Pilbara, as has Andrew Forest and another Queensland Billion Dollar company. .

WAT I think these are just idle threats being made by the mining bosses to try and scare Canberra. And going by the full page ads placed by them in the age and the hun today it looks like they are trying on the scare campaign to the general public.

I can tell you mate they will not just suck it and absorb it, they do not work like that

Spot on WAT
This tax is an impost on the wealthy, but unfortunately it is them who will make everyone else pay for it, in the form of charging higher rates for it's minerals, sacking innocent workers and paying the existing ones less.  
Because there is no way known that these fatcats are gunna let these commo bastards steal what's rightfully theirs!

makes Australia da
sorry i missed the e

by the quality of your posting I thought you'd taken one.

Post of the year so far

To all of you Andrew Bolt loving, SUV driving, stockmarket watching wannabes on OER, who probably stand to lose a couple of dollars off the value of their portfolio/super fund, I salute you for your greed and ignorance. In fact I would like to apologise for being a mere worker on award wages, I must be such a drain on you all for asking for a 3% pay rise each year. Maybe I can cut back on some things and accept the 2.5% offer instead  

DallasCrane

LOL Andrew Bolt now there's a prick who can do with some hot grease in his lap.  Good post Dallas.  You can't walk past those profits going offshore.

[WA Tiger]

"Nope, they will close a mine down as quick as you can snap your fingers.  My son works in a mine in the NT and they closed it down almost overnight for nearly 12 months recently because the price of resources dropped below their acceptable margin.  Don't kid yourself, they will only play bluff to a certain point.  After that it's every man for himself and it costs them a pittance to leave their 'gold' in the ground, it ain't going anywhere and they will just bide their time......dare I say it.....until a new government comes in?"

DEAD RIGHT SMOKEY, when you are in it like your son you understand it a lot more, great post!!

[WilliamPowell]

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

A man for the moment WP, nothing more, nothing less.  Wartime politics transcended left vs right more than at any other time in our history and for all his leftist background and sympathies, his Achilles heel during the war were his own unions.

I have to disagree smokey.

Firstly, I don't buy this constant inference regarding Labor Govts & Unions. It seems every Labor government in history at every level of government has this "union control/interference" issue thrown up. Granted in some cases it is and has been justified but on other occasions it seems to be something put up simply because it makes "good copy" and the opposition of the day has no credible policies of its own. For example in Victoria in the 1980's who was the government of the day that de-registered the thug Union the BFL? As I said in some cases the inference is justified but I don’t believe it is reasonable to apply it to all Labor Govts.

Back to Curtain: I think he was more than a man for the moment. Why?

There are a couple of reasons for mine. I don’t think anyone should underestimate the mess he inherited from the previous government. That mess in a way resulted in a country that was lost and looking for leadership and hope. He managed to bring this country back together as one. I think also the fact that he was prepared to say “no” to England and Churchill shows that he was a leader as opposed to a follower. And I don’t think we can ever undervalue his contribution to this country’s relationship to the USA. His decision to approach the Yanks when the Japanese were threatening should not be lost on anyone.

When I was younger and I was on my Australian History study/research kick I used to sit down with my Mum and talk about the depression and WW2. I also had similar conversations with her older brother. What is interesting from those conversations is that my Uncle who is a staunch Liberal voter (my Mother was the complete opposite and was a lifetime Labor voter) said to me that in his opinion Curtain was the best Prime Minster this country has ever had without question.

I don’t have much time for politicians on either side of the politic fence to be honest. Actaully as I get older I have less respect for them because none of them seem to be willing to actually make a tough decision, rather they seem to spend most of their time finger pointing and complaining

But the exception for me is and has always been John Curtain. I have a helluva lot of time and respect for him. As I said brilliant & great man

There was a doco/movie made for the ABC a couple of years back about Curtain – aprt from being very well made it is a good history leasson  

Finally, the discussion going on through this thread has been sensational - no name calling, sniping jsut great debating . Well done all  

[WA Tiger]

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

A man for the moment WP, nothing more, nothing less.  Wartime politics transcended left vs right more than at any other time in our history and for all his leftist background and sympathies, his Achilles heel during the war were his own unions.

I have to disagree smokey.

Firstly, I don't buy this constant inference regarding Labor Govts & Unions. It seems every Labor government in history at every level of government has this "union control/interference" issue thrown up. Granted in some cases it is and has been justified but on other occasions it seems to be something put up simply because it makes "good copy" and the opposition of the day has no credible policies of its own. For example in Victoria in the 1980's who was the government of the day that de-registered the thug Union the BFL? As I said in some cases the inference is justified but I don’t believe it is reasonable to apply it to all Labor Govts.

Back to Curtain: I think he was more than a man for the moment. Why?

There are a couple of reasons for mine. I don’t think anyone should underestimate the mess he inherited from the previous government. That mess in a way resulted in a country that was lost and looking for leadership and hope. He managed to bring this country back together as one. I think also the fact that he was prepared to say “no” to England and Churchill shows that he was a leader as opposed to a follower. And I don’t think we can ever undervalue his contribution to this country’s relationship to the USA. His decision to approach the Yanks when the Japanese were threatening should not be lost on anyone.

When I was younger and I was on my Australian History study/research kick I used to sit down with my Mum and talk about the depression and WW2. I also had similar conversations with her older brother. What is interesting from those conversations is that my Uncle who is a staunch Liberal voter (my Mother was the complete opposite and was a lifetime Labor voter) said to me that in his opinion Curtain was the best Prime Minster this country has ever had without question.

I don’t have much time for politicians on either side of the politic fence to be honest. Actaully as I get older I have less respect for them because none of them seem to be willing to actually make a tough decision, rather they seem to spend most of their time finger pointing and complaining

But the exception for me is and has always been John Curtain. I have a helluva lot of time and respect for him. As I said brilliant & great man

There was a doco/movie made for the ABC a couple of years back about Curtain – aprt from being very well made it is a good history leasson  

Finally, the discussion going on through this thread has been sensational - no name calling, sniping jsut great debating . Well done all  

Isn't it just, very good, great points of view from all!! . Sounds like you are a real Political History buff WP, good on you.

[Infamy]

If Victoria vote that idiot Bracks back in to power later this year I may have to move

Looks like you'll have to stay. He resigned in 2007.

I can't believe I did that, I even thought to myself "don't put down Bracks' name, you'll look like a idiot if you do"
The fact I thought of his name probably made me type it out

 

[Smokey]

A man for the moment WP, nothing more, nothing less.  Wartime politics transcended left vs right more than at any other time in our history and for all his leftist background and sympathies, his Achilles heel during the war were his own unions.

I have to disagree smokey.

Firstly, I don't buy this constant inference regarding Labor Govts & Unions. It seems every Labor government in history at every level of government has this "union control/interference" issue thrown up. Granted in some cases it is and has been justified but on other occasions it seems to be something put up simply because it makes "good copy" and the opposition of the day has no credible policies of its own. For example in Victoria in the 1980's who was the government of the day that de-registered the thug Union the BFL? As I said in some cases the inference is justified but I don’t believe it is reasonable to apply it to all Labor Govts.

Back to Curtain: I think he was more than a man for the moment. Why?

There are a couple of reasons for mine. I don’t think anyone should underestimate the mess he inherited from the previous government. That mess in a way resulted in a country that was lost and looking for leadership and hope. He managed to bring this country back together as one. I think also the fact that he was prepared to say “no” to England and Churchill shows that he was a leader as opposed to a follower. And I don’t think we can ever undervalue his contribution to this country’s relationship to the USA. His decision to approach the Yanks when the Japanese were threatening should not be lost on anyone.

When I was younger and I was on my Australian History study/research kick I used to sit down with my Mum and talk about the depression and WW2. I also had similar conversations with her older brother. What is interesting from those conversations is that my Uncle who is a staunch Liberal voter (my Mother was the complete opposite and was a lifetime Labor voter) said to me that in his opinion Curtain was the best Prime Minster this country has ever had without question.

I don’t have much time for politicians on either side of the politic fence to be honest. Actaully as I get older I have less respect for them because none of them seem to be willing to actually make a tough decision, rather they seem to spend most of their time finger pointing and complaining

But the exception for me is and has always been John Curtain. I have a helluva lot of time and respect for him. As I said brilliant & great man

There was a doco/movie made for the ABC a couple of years back about Curtain – aprt from being very well made it is a good history leasson  

Finally, the discussion going on through this thread has been sensational - no name calling, sniping jsut great debating . Well done all  

I stick by my opinion WP - he was the a man for the moment, nothing more, nothing less.  He was the right man to lead us through WWII, even though the stresses of it killed him before the war's end, and he did a fine job of that while he was alive.  He stood up to the British government as much as he could and as you say, sought the help of the US when we stood to be left high and dry after England's promises to it's allies turned to dust - yet again.  But up until the war he as was a non-descript politician who was not comfortable in the limelight and who had little or no impact on our country as a leader of vision or strength.  Just like the shy and mild-mannered clerk can step up in times of severe adversity like war and become a VC winner, then just as quietly fade away at war's end, so Curtin stepped up in our hour of need and made the right decisions to lead us through the war - a man for the moment.

As for his Achilles heel being the unions?  Sadly, when he turned to his fellow countrymen for support in those most trying of times it wasn't big business that let him down, it wasn't housewives that let him down, it was the unions who continued to call strikes in support of their own selfish agenda that prevented this country supporting it's troops as best it could, the same unions that he had been a leader of in his younger days and the same unions that supplied the very very large percentage of Labor politicians in those days.  My inference?  It's not an inference, it's a firm belief garnered over the years of my life from watching politics with a largely apolitical bent.  I have voted for both sides of politics in my time - even the Democrats at some point - but I know a spade when I'm looking at a spade, and the Labor party has a measure of influence over the unions that the Liberals and others will never have, and did so much more back in the mid 1900's.  They let him down badly in the war and as a student of this period in our history you should know that only too well - Curtin's continual frustrations with, and laments over, his union 'mates' are a sad byplay to the last years of his life.

[WilliamPowell]

Fair enough smokey - we will agree that we have differing opinions 

And just on my comment about "the inference". I wasn't talking about it being "your inference" I was refering the "general inference" regaridng Labor Govts & Unions. Sorry if I didn't make that clear

[Smokey]

Fair enough smokey - we will agree that we have differing opinions 

And just on my comment about "the inference". I wasn't talking about it being "your inference" I was refering the "general inference" regaridng Labor Govts & Unions. Sorry if I didn't make that clear

No worries WP.  As you mentioned earlier - I can't believe the forum has debated this vexed topic so well - it's been very enjoyable to read, regardless of the differing opinions.  And on Curtin, I'm not talking down the impact or importance of his role in our war effort - the saying "cometh the hour, cometh the man" could not be applied more aptly here.  I just think we have had a few great leaders in our country in it's short history and he does not stand above the others to me, more that he stands beside them.   

[3rogerd]

Through my love of Australian history and my own research I would argue strongly that the greatest Prime Minister this country IMHO has ever had came from the Labour side of politics not the Liberals

His name = JOHN CURTAIN.

Simply a brillant & great man IMHO.

A man for the moment WP, nothing more, nothing less.  Wartime politics transcended left vs right more than at any other time in our history and for all his leftist background and sympathies, his Achilles heel during the war were his own unions.

I have to disagree smokey.

Firstly, I don't buy this constant inference regarding Labor Govts & Unions. It seems every Labor government in history at every level of government has this "union control/interference" issue thrown up. Granted in some cases it is and has been justified but on other occasions it seems to be something put up simply because it makes "good copy" and the opposition of the day has no credible policies of its own. For example in Victoria in the 1980's who was the government of the day that de-registered the thug Union the BFL? As I said in some cases the inference is justified but I don’t believe it is reasonable to apply it to all Labor Govts.

Back to Curtain: I think he was more than a man for the moment. Why?

There are a couple of reasons for mine. I don’t think anyone should underestimate the mess he inherited from the previous government. That mess in a way resulted in a country that was lost and looking for leadership and hope. He managed to bring this country back together as one. I think also the fact that he was prepared to say “no” to England and Churchill shows that he was a leader as opposed to a follower. And I don’t think we can ever undervalue his contribution to this country’s relationship to the USA. His decision to approach the Yanks when the Japanese were threatening should not be lost on anyone.

When I was younger and I was on my Australian History study/research kick I used to sit down with my Mum and talk about the depression and WW2. I also had similar conversations with her older brother. What is interesting from those conversations is that my Uncle who is a staunch Liberal voter (my Mother was the complete opposite and was a lifetime Labor voter) said to me that in his opinion Curtain was the best Prime Minster this country has ever had without question.

I don’t have much time for politicians on either side of the politic fence to be honest. Actaully as I get older I have less respect for them because none of them seem to be willing to actually make a tough decision, rather they seem to spend most of their time finger pointing and complaining

But the exception for me is and has always been John Curtain. I have a helluva lot of time and respect for him. As I said brilliant & great man

There was a doco/movie made for the ABC a couple of years back about Curtain – aprt from being very well made it is a good history leasson  

Finally, the discussion going on through this thread has been sensational - no name calling, sniping jsut great debating . Well done all  

great summation WP i personally dont really want to get involved this thread as politics
tends to get me riled up.

and to think we have another election soon x2, when both sides of the fence really need a foot up the arse, especially through these boom times
that this country is in such disarray whether it be infrastrcture, education, hospitals the list goes on.

these blokes on both sides have wasted OUR money, again and again.

when did we have a visionary as a leader, have we really had one?