Richmond to wear Dreamtime guernsey against Hawthorn.

[Diocletian]

He has not had an affair with a team mates wife

Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....

Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!

Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....

[Smokey]

It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.

Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top.  13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country.  She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat.  Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic.  Bully?

[Smokey]

A lot of the people on this forum are 40+year olds who grew up in the 70s and 80s like myself when racism was pretty rife and as such their value set reflects that era.  Their values wont change as they age, tactics might but when push comes to shove their values wont.  Goodes challenges those values more than Winmar did or Michael Long because Goodes expects more. His values are from the late 80s and 90s when things began to change.  Its as much a generational thing as a personal thing I think

I think you're full of poo you pompous arrogant twit.  How dare you presume what I think?  I've worked with indigenous people most of my life, still do.  I rent my home from an indigenous lady.  I'm involved with a football club that has a large percentage of indigenous players and don't deal with any of them any differently to anyone else.  Talk to some indigenous people, ask them what they think.  You would be surprised how many of them have no time for Goodes either, for the same reason, and for them it's most certainly not about race.

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.

Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top.  13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country.  She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat.  Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic.  Bully?

I think this whole saga of blaming Adam Goodes for being racially abused is absolutely at the heart of the broader issue. HE was racially vilified. He didn't know anything about her, who she was or what her background was. All he knew was that he was called a an Ape during indigenous round. So he pointed it out.

I'll agree that the public shaming didn't match the crime and that she was probably scape-goated beyond what she needed, which as you asserted, was counselling and direction, but to blame him for that is horrendous. Blame the black man for being black and getting called an ape????

[Smokey]

Waleed Aly said something similar.

    The face of all that is good, just and right in this world.  Hypocritical, lying worm of a human.  All terrorists are good, it's just that some are better than others.

[DCrane]

It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.

Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top.  13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country.  She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat.  Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic.  Bully?

It was not Adam Goodes' fault that his attacker was 13 years old, she was not the face of Australian racism, she was however a symptom and a victim of it. 

[Smokey]

I think this whole saga of blaming Adam Goodes for being racially abused is absolutely at the heart of the broader issue. HE was racially vilified. He didn't know anything about her, who she was or what her background was. All he knew was that he was called a an Ape during indigenous round. So he pointed it out.

I'll agree that the public shaming didn't match the crime and that she was probably scape-goated beyond what she needed, which as you asserted, was counselling and direction, but to blame him for that is horrendous. Blame the black man for being black and getting called an ape????

No he didn't and there was nothing wrong with his initial reaction but a reasonable, fair-minded leader of men might then have reflected on things post-event and taken steps to turn the event into a true educational opportunity,  not just for her but for those in our community who still don't get it.  Unfortunately he chose the other path, to play the victim and subsequently gain no traction for his cause.  And that's where an apology now (not to say sorry for what she said but sorry for how his reaction was handled wrongly) could go so far to diffuse the current rubbish and achieve what he states is his real aim.  But sadly, it doesn't appear to be within his makeup or agenda so then I for one question his real intent.

[Penelope]

It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.

Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top.  13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country.  She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat.  Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic.  Bully?

I think this whole saga of blaming Adam Goodes for being racially abused is absolutely at the heart of the broader issue. HE was racially vilified. He didn't know anything about her, who she was or what her background was. All he knew was that he was called a an Ape during indigenous round. So he pointed it out.

I'll agree that the public shaming didn't match the crime and that she was probably scape-goated beyond what she needed, which as you asserted, was counselling and direction, but to blame him for that is horrendous. Blame the black man for being black and getting called an ape????

what a load of horse droppings.

more like blame the man who made a big deal out of a childs mistake, but then kept ever so silent when that child rang him and wrote to him to express her regret in what she said and that she now understands the hurt it caused,

now, you tell me which part of the story is the one most worthy of bringing public attention to, her mistake or how she responded to it?

[DCrane]

He has not had an affair with a team mates wife

Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....

Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!

Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....

As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.

[Smokey]

It must be confronting for some people (maybe not Smokey or Diocletian) to realise that their views are now in alignment with the likes of Andrew Bolt, who tonight called on Goodes to apologise to the girl that called him an ape.

Or a large majority of fair-minded human beings who also think the same thing - Goodes treatment of that girl was over the top.  13 years old and she most definitely was not the face of racism in this country.  She was a young, immature child who needed an adult to work with her in educating and pointing out how the term is derogatory and unacceptable, not an adult to carry on like a spoiled brat.  Shame his reaction to Eddie MacGuire's much more unacceptable comment a week later was much more reserved and less histrionic.  Bully?

It was not Adam Goodes' fault that his attacker was 13 years old, she was not the face of Australian racism, she was however a symptom and a victim of it.

Only if you accept that her intent with the word "ape" was directed at him racially, and not at his actual appearance as a large overpowering man with a beard.  I know that to many 13 year olds, they would only see it the second way, entirely innocently and his refusal to accept the possibility it could have been a very innocent mistake says more about him than her in my eyes.  That's where I think his vaunted leadership in the community is sadly lacking.  He could have accepted the possibility of an error in judgment and then used the opportunity to state his thoughts on it the use of the word itself and broader racism in general - that would have been true leadership and had people from all walks onside, listening to his word.

[Penelope]

seems to be a lot of prejudice based on generalisation and stereotyping going on, which ironically enough, is what racism basically is.

Hmm, I could go on and on about why that's not correct but, alas ,I haven't the time nor patience. Racism is a far more complex notion than simply stereotyping and generalisation. If I see a man who would present as being of sub-continental background, and I'm a lifeguard and we're at a pool, I might stereotype him as being likely to drown, because in all likely-hood, he probably can't swim.

If I call someone an 'ape', that would assume that I myself am asserting that I am different and higher up the social order than the object of my assertion.

Fun fact, Race has no biological basis, which is to say it doesn't exist from an evolutionary or scientific standpoint. It was derived/developed in order to justify taking away land and territory from indigenous peoples under the guise that "we deserve this, we're higher up the social scale than these savages".

of course it is more complex, but i specifically used the word basically, because like you i couldn't be bothered exploring the vast complexities of it.
but if you want to go deeper and even more simplistic, racism is a form of xenophobia, something we all have in us, whether the pretentious amongst us want to admit it or not.

[Diocletian]

He has not had an affair with a team mates wife

Well you need to be heterosexual first to do that kind of thing....

Gee, this issue has really brought out the inner bigot in you. This is your moment to shine like a nihilistic tiger!

Well quick, you better go and express your moral outrage in the twitter echo chamber with all the rest of the ladies of the new church like a good little Social Justice Warrior/online slacktivist...maybe even create a snappy, self-righteous little hashtag that will trend and be reported as legitimate news by Fairfax & The Guardian.... failing that, just shoot off an email to Ruby Hamad....

As much as I try, I can't for the life of me inspire myself to get outraged by right wing lightweights these days.

Yes it was fairly rudimentary, cliched stuff but I'm not about waste my good material on the likes of you, let alone a football fan forum.

[DCrane]

Smoke calling for Goodes to apologise to someone who called him an ape is an outrageous demand. If by some way Goodes is obliged to extend an olive branch then I am sure that he has done more than his fair share of that by offering to talk to the girl about how and why it was wrong and the effect that it has on people? What more can he do? He is not the kids parents, who are obviously racist bogans who have taught their kids the aussie way.

Adam Goodes must have been shocked when he realised it came from the mouth of a 13yo girl. To think that racism is so engrained against his people that people who are essentially being trained to be another generation of abo haters.
This would be a nasty self revelation to have if indeed he had it. To think that the next generation are already against me because of my skin. That's what I would have been thinking, if I try to put myself in his place.
 
 
 

[Penelope]

actually the girl contacted him. yet he ignored a real opportunity to create a great positive out of something that just left a bitter taste in everyone's mouth.

[Diocletian]

He is not the kids parents, who are obviously racist bogans who have taught their kids the aussie way.

...and you definitely know this how? Seems to be an awful lot of people blessed with the gift of e.s.p on your side of the debate. What's this "Aussie way" you speak of? Does it involve traits that are unique to Australians?