Shane Edwards [merged]

[RedanTiger]

Yep there's been some poor selections but also some gems. Not sure why people can't admit that

Was just pointing out that when you look at the team, that played last night and our VFL side it would seem we have a lot of flukes (using your word) out running around these days

Since Luke Williams joined in 2014 our strike rate has turned totally.

Prior to that our "gems" were mostly 1st or 2nd rounders.
Firsts: Riewoldt (13-2006), Cotchin (2-2007), Rance (18-2007), Martin (3-2009), Conca (6-2010), Ellis (15-2011), Vlastuin (9-2012). 
Second: Edwards (26-2006), McIntosh (31-2012).

Astbury was 35 and Grimes was PSD in 2009.
Grigg and Houli were traded and PSD in 2010.
Lloyd was a late pick 66 and Miles was a rookie in 2013.

Astbury was a good pick at 35 and Grimes was a real fluke in the PSD.
Grigg, Houli, Lloyd and Miles would really be seen as mature age pickups from Hartley (much as you hate him) rather than the recruiters.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Scary that our recruiters got another one right 

Very funny WP. 
It’s Francis Jackson that was a useless recruiter and everyone knows it, especially every other club. 

As useless as FJ is, anyone can fluke some players even ol’ Betamax himself .   

Yep there's been some poor selections but also some gems. Not sure why people can't admit that

Was just pointing out that when you look at the team, that played last night and our VFL side it would seem we have a lot of flukes (using your word) out running around these days

Maybe someone's wrong and can't see that

So let me get this straight, if FJ is the mastermind of our 2017 premiership team because of his brilliance in recruiting, that would make Ol’ Betamax the most sought after commodity since Stephen Wells. 
Funny, must be the reason he was given a promotion by our club from head of recruiting to just one of the scouts. 
Even funnier is how many clubs, just like with Wells, are banging his door down to get him to come to their club to build a premiership team. 

.... JON reckons hes an excellent recruiter. Apparently he is so good he only has to watch a highlights video. 

But yes I’m wrong again, FJ is as good a recruiter as Choco was an excellent development coach. 

[Tiger Khosh]

If you go to the beginning of any one of our guns pages you would see a whole lot of “poor selection, we shoulda picked this guy instead (insert name of player who has failed miserably).” fact of the matter is clubs are normally there or there abouts in where they rate players so when people say a few years after the draft “oh I can’t believe we took this guy at pick 5 when this clearly better player was taken at pick 20” it’s not like Richmond had him rated 15 spots above where every other club did.

And don’t know why being successful with our first round picks should be valued any less. Look at Melbourne, took them about a decade to start nailing their first rounders and Carlton well we’re still waiting for them.

[WilliamPowell]

I didn't say he was the mastermind

I just find it interesting that you and others cannot give any credit for some of the picks he made

The way you carry on every single one of his selections were poor

We won a flag last year so all I'm saying is they can't all be flukes, just like they all can't be shockers or perfect selections.  People whack away but refuse to give any credot for the oens they've got right

Since Luke Williams joined in 2014 our strike rate has turned totally.

Prior to that our "gems" were mostly 1st or 2nd rounders.
Firsts: Riewoldt (13-2006), Cotchin (2-2007), Rance (18-2007), Martin (3-2009), Conca (6-2010), Ellis (15-2011), Vlastuin (9-2012). 
Second: Edwards (26-2006), McIntosh (31-2012).

Astbury was 35 and Grimes was PSD in 2009.
Grigg and Houli were traded and PSD in 2010.
Lloyd was a late pick 66 and Miles was a rookie in 2013.

Astbury was a good pick at 35 and Grimes was a real fluke in the PSD.
Grigg, Houli, Lloyd and Miles would really be seen as mature age pickups from Hartley (much as you hate him) rather than the recruiters.

So every selection from 2014 onwards (sucessful ones of course) are because of Luke Williams? The poor omes are all Jackson

So by your reckoning Castagna, Butler, Broad, Lambert are all the work of Luke Williams only? How convenient

Grigg was a trade so you are correct nothing to do with recruting. Ditto Houli we got for free in the PSD, so again not the recruiters.

Lloyd was a selection, and was a recruiters decision not Hartley.

Hartley has made some shocking decisions, Hampson says "hello"!

You say I hate Hartley (hate? No, extremely critical of some of his decisions absolutely and in hindsight on some I've been proven wrong btw) ) but an argument can be made that your's and others "hate" of Jackson means you wont acknowledge on any level that Jackson got some selections right

[big tone]

You could watch 5 minutes of YouTube and get some picks right.

[Tigeritis™©®]

Like I said even ol’ Betamax can get some right but is it not interesting that he’s been demoted and even more interesting that he’s not on the radar of any club in terms of recruitment nor ever mentioned in relation to our list and the genius of his recruiting prowess.

What he is known for is making some of the biggest recruiting howlers ever to have been made in the history of the AFL draft. No one wants him.  FACT.

[RedanTiger]

I didn't say he was the mastermind

I just find it interesting that you and others cannot give any credit for some of the picks he made

The way you carry on every single one of his selections were poor

We won a flag last year so all I'm saying is they can't all be flukes, just like they all can't be shockers or perfect selections.  People whack away but refuse to give any credot for the oens they've got right

Since Luke Williams joined in 2014 our strike rate has turned totally.

Prior to that our "gems" were mostly 1st or 2nd rounders.
Firsts: Riewoldt (13-2006), Cotchin (2-2007), Rance (18-2007), Martin (3-2009), Conca (6-2010), Ellis (15-2011), Vlastuin (9-2012). 
Second: Edwards (26-2006), McIntosh (31-2012).

Astbury was 35 and Grimes was PSD in 2009.
Grigg and Houli were traded and PSD in 2010.
Lloyd was a late pick 66 and Miles was a rookie in 2013.

Astbury was a good pick at 35 and Grimes was a real fluke in the PSD.
Grigg, Houli, Lloyd and Miles would really be seen as mature age pickups from Hartley (much as you hate him) rather than the recruiters.

So every selection from 2014 onwards (sucessful ones of course) are because of Luke Williams? The poor omes are all Jackson

So by your reckoning Castagna, Butler, Broad, Lambert are all the work of Luke Williams only? How convenient

Grigg was a trade so you are correct nothing to do with recruting. Ditto Houli we got for free in the PSD, so again not the recruiters.

Lloyd was a selection, and was a recruiters decision not Hartley.

Hartley has made some shocking decisions, Hampson says "hello"!

You say I hate Hartley (hate? No, extremely critical of some of his decisions absolutely and in hindsight on some I've been proven wrong btw) ) but an argument can be made that your's and others "hate" of Jackson means you wont acknowledge on any level that Jackson got some selections right

I said "Since Luke Williams joined in 2014 our strike rate has turned totally."
I DID NOT say "every selection from 2014 onwards (sucessful ones of course) are because of Luke Williams".
Unless you are in the meetings of the recruitment (and List Management) you and I do not know for sure.

I have kept a list of all drafts and a separate one of all OUR selections since 2004.
In putting a red line through all those delisted you can see a whole lot of red from 2005 until 2013.
That is what I base my opinion on. The total evidence, clearly displayed in front of me.
This was pointed out a couple of years ago in an excerpt from "Inside Football".

In my previous post I pointed to Astbury as a good pick and Grimes as a fluke (or a genius) pick in 2009.
Between Astbury at 35 and Grimes in PSD we took Dea (44), Taylor (51), Webberley (67), Nason (71), Nahas (89) and Browne (94).

All the others I listed were 1st or 2nds during Jackson's tenure and ALL current players from those drafts are listed.
I would say Jackson got most of those right but.......
In 2010 we took Conca at 6 and overlooked Caddy, Heppel, Prestia, Gorringe and Tom Lynch.

To Tigeritis, Jackson was a teacher for many years and was 65 when he stepped down to the scout position.
 

[Dougeytherichmondfan]

I love drafting debates. Best thing about footy banter.

But, really, development of players is as significant, if not more, than the actual selections.

Jackson has made some great selections, but stuffed a few up as well. Can anyone please point the AFL list that has a 100% strike rate on drafting? Every post a winner. Get over it lads! 

[RedanTiger]

I love drafting debates. Best thing about footy banter.

But, really, development of players is as significant, if not more, than the actual selections.

Jackson has made some great selections, but stuffed a few up as well. Can anyone please point the AFL list that has a 100% strike rate on drafting? Every post a winner. Get over it lads! 

Yeah, its pretty esoteric talking drafts.
Aside from development, which I agree is significant, you've also got to look at injuries.
Cotchin was picked behind his mate Kreuzer and he's had a terrible time with injury. What could he have done if he got as good a run as Trent.
Martin was picked behind Scully and Trengove. Scully left for the Giants in disgust and Trengove was crippled with injury.

Again we're back to coulda, shoulda, woulda.

[Tiger Khosh]

I didn't say he was the mastermind

I just find it interesting that you and others cannot give any credit for some of the picks he made

The way you carry on every single one of his selections were poor

We won a flag last year so all I'm saying is they can't all be flukes, just like they all can't be shockers or perfect selections.  People whack away but refuse to give any credot for the oens they've got right

Since Luke Williams joined in 2014 our strike rate has turned totally.

Prior to that our "gems" were mostly 1st or 2nd rounders.
Firsts: Riewoldt (13-2006), Cotchin (2-2007), Rance (18-2007), Martin (3-2009), Conca (6-2010), Ellis (15-2011), Vlastuin (9-2012). 
Second: Edwards (26-2006), McIntosh (31-2012).

Astbury was 35 and Grimes was PSD in 2009.
Grigg and Houli were traded and PSD in 2010.
Lloyd was a late pick 66 and Miles was a rookie in 2013.

Astbury was a good pick at 35 and Grimes was a real fluke in the PSD.
Grigg, Houli, Lloyd and Miles would really be seen as mature age pickups from Hartley (much as you hate him) rather than the recruiters.

So every selection from 2014 onwards (sucessful ones of course) are because of Luke Williams? The poor omes are all Jackson

So by your reckoning Castagna, Butler, Broad, Lambert are all the work of Luke Williams only? How convenient

Grigg was a trade so you are correct nothing to do with recruting. Ditto Houli we got for free in the PSD, so again not the recruiters.

Lloyd was a selection, and was a recruiters decision not Hartley.

Hartley has made some shocking decisions, Hampson says "hello"!

You say I hate Hartley (hate? No, extremely critical of some of his decisions absolutely and in hindsight on some I've been proven wrong btw) ) but an argument can be made that your's and others "hate" of Jackson means you wont acknowledge on any level that Jackson got some selections right

I said "Since Luke Williams joined in 2014 our strike rate has turned totally."
I DID NOT say "every selection from 2014 onwards (sucessful ones of course) are because of Luke Williams".
Unless you are in the meetings of the recruitment (and List Management) you and I do not know for sure.

I have kept a list of all drafts and a separate one of all OUR selections since 2004.
In putting a red line through all those delisted you can see a whole lot of red from 2005 until 2013.
That is what I base my opinion on. The total evidence, clearly displayed in front of me.
This was pointed out a couple of years ago in an excerpt from "Inside Football".

In my previous post I pointed to Astbury as a good pick and Grimes as a fluke (or a genius) pick in 2009.
Between Astbury at 35 and Grimes in PSD we took Dea (44), Taylor (51), Webberley (67), Nason (71), Nahas (89) and Browne (94).

All the others I listed were 1st or 2nds during Jackson's tenure and ALL current players from those drafts are listed.
I would say Jackson got most of those right but.......
In 2010 we took Conca at 6 and overlooked Caddy, Heppel, Prestia, Gorringe and Tom Lynch.

To Tigeritis, Jackson was a teacher for many years and was 65 when he stepped down to the scout position.

Damn you must really dislike Conca saying we messed up picking him instead of a player who played 26 games for two clubs and then retired.....

[RedanTiger]

Damn you must really dislike Conca saying we messed up picking him instead of a player who played 26 games for two clubs and then retired.....

I just knew when I gave total disclosure of all those picks that someone would pick out the ONE player who is not obviously better than Conca to try and do the usual.
Quick check of the internet eh Khosh.
Now tell me how happy you are that we paid over the odds to get Caddy and Prestia and how we'll have to put big money on the table for Lynch when we could have got any of them for nothing.

[one-eyed]

From Robbo's "likes" column:

5. SHANE EDWARDS

His best game of the year and it was even better than his performance in the 2017 Grand Final, when Richmond people believed he could have won the Norm Smith Medal. At least after Saturday night he can no longer be ‘‘Invisible and Underrated’’ which was the headline in Saturday’s Herald Sun to describe him. He is the No. 1 score assist player in the AFL with 31 score assists — the next best player has 22. Against the Bombers it was a career-high in disposals (31) and metres gained (685). One of the all-time Tigers greats? Maybe not, but in coach Damien Hardwick’s time, few have been as important.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/expert-opinion/mark-robinson/the-tackle-tom-mcdonald-worth-big-dollars-but-tom-boyd-tom-lynch-in-mark-robinsons-dislikes-for-round-11/news-story/a09b16bd4a1b4458d3af23fccb2217ec

[Tiger Khosh]

Damn you must really dislike Conca saying we messed up picking him instead of a player who played 26 games for two clubs and then retired.....

I just knew when I gave total disclosure of all those picks that someone would pick out the ONE player who is not obviously better than Conca to try and do the usual.
Quick check of the internet eh Khosh.
Now tell me how happy you are that we paid over the odds to get Caddy and Prestia and how we'll have to put big money on the table for Lynch when we could have got any of them for nothing.

Didn’t really need to check the internet to know that someone’s name I havnt heard in years was retired, not sure why you would add him to the list if you knew this, may aswell have added the other 80 or so players drafted.

And also not sure why you think we paid overs for caddy, we got him with pick 24 and your saying we should have drafted him with pick 6. Same with Prestia we would have just broken even with that one although I guess you could argue we could have potentially saved some money on his salary and potentially drafted a better player than Conca with 2016s pick 6. But like I said hindsight is 20/20, if we hadn’t taken Conca no doubt he would have been picked up in the next few picks that followed.

[georgies31]

You could watch 5 minutes of YouTube and get some picks right.

Lol you sure about that Greg Miller never seen JON play live only video clips and picked him what a disaster  .

[eliminator]

Before the Essendon game there was an article by Jon Anderson in the Herald Sun stating that Shane was our second greatest indigenous player after Maurice Rioli. What do people think about that?

Shane played a Fantastic game against the Bombers and deserved the award but I still think his game against Geelong in the finals and his grand final game were superior.