One-Eyed Richmond Forum
Football => Richmond Rant => Topic started by: Ramps on October 09, 2010, 12:21:10 AM
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OUT-OF-CONTRACT Carlton midfielder Shaun Grigg will switch to Richmond in a straight swap for Tigers forward Andrew Collins.
The clubs settled on the swap late yesterday after the contracted Collins agreed to cross to Princes Park.
Collins was not on the trade table until the Blues requested him in exchange for the disgruntled Grigg.
In just his second season at Punt Road, Collins made a name for himself when he was the hero of Richmond's come-from-behind win over Sydney at the MCG in round 14 with the final two goals of the match.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/blues-tigers-swap-grigg-collins/story-e6frg7mf-1225936186345
If this is true its an absolute disgrace! There is no logic in it other than if its true our footy department caved in- for no reason at all. WE Better have gotten a 2nd round pick or something otherwise the board needs to look into who made the decision to make the trade. Its a disgrace- We could have gotten him for Nothing FFS!
And we couldnt move Thursfield- FAIL IMHO!
Gone from Choccies to boiled lollies in about 24 hours has our footy department!
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i agree what are they thinking.
we are supposed to be building on decent talent and weeding out hacks.
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Unbelievable :banghead
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The only way this may be seen as MAYBE acceptable is if we trade Adelaide's 3rd rounder for their 2nd rounder.
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Agree 100% what a disgrace! I'm sick of incompetent tools running this club!
Collins is twice the player that Grigg is!
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/blues-tigers-swap-grigg-collins/story-e6frg7mf-1225936186345
If this is true its an absolute disgrace! There is no logic in it other than if its true our footy department caved in- for no reason at all. WE Better have gotten a 2nd round pick or something otherwise the board needs to look into who made the decision to make the trade. Its a disgrace- We could have gotten him for Nothing FFS!
And we couldnt move Thursfield- FAIL IMHO!
Gone from Choccies to boiled lollies in about 24 hours has our footy department!
I see what you mean.
It thought it was more silly, like give up Mitch Morton, a 2nd Round Pick for Grigg.
Andrew Collins ... hmmmmm, not sold on him, but he is not the worst.
I see why Richmond would do this.
I think we will get Houli in the PSD and Carlton really want a 2nd Round Pick and we are probably offering a 3rd/4th Rond Pick.
Come The National Draft, we will draft all 17/18 year olds and leave one more pick for Houli.
Where as, if we got Houli in the ND and Grigg in the PSD, Richmond might of found a hidden gem and are planning to get a young cub that no one else knows about with that pick.
I don't know, i am basically guessing and thinking of a possible situation.
Andrew Collins ... they could of taken McGuane or Thursfield?
How can Thursfield play for Richmond after he said "I WANT TO BE TRADED?"
Ask Fremantle for a 4th/5th Round Pick if be!
:thumbsup
What happened to the McGuane trade?
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The only way this may be seen as MAYBE acceptable is if we trade Adelaide's 3rd rounder for their 2nd rounder.
Agree!
Collins & 3rd Round Pick FOR Grigg & 2nd Round Pick = Richmond Win!
:gotigers
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If it's a straight swap that is a terrible, terrible, terrible deal
I'll wait til its official before really getting peeed off about it
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There should be an organised movement among members tomorrow phoning the club and telling them that if it goes ahead, no renewal
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I could tolerate trading out Collo for a deal too good to refuse but a swap for a fringe player with a dodgy kick like Grigg is pathetic! Grigg is uncontracted and wants out for crying out loud and we've caved in to doing this crap trade :banghead.
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Why don't we offer Dean Polo? Adam Thomson?
???
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This doesn't smell right, none of the other rags have anything on this, and they are all over the trade stuff, the Australian is usually parroting HUN stuff.
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here we have a a lovely height in collo at 188cm he only just got to 80 kg hes probably two seasons away from gaining the size and core strength to compete at his best. hes a good kick can kick a goal has a bloody footy brain and is a natural footballer.
we have such deficient players on our list in the likes of tuck white king nahas thursfield mcguane jackson polo hislop graham edwards and others. here we are offering him up in a trade for a like player imo collins has more upside than grigg and we are offering him up needlessly. carlton will take pick 50 or risk getting nothing. if we miss grigg what do we lose. now that we are going to get him but lose collins in the process just how much do we gain.
someone should tell those spineless cretins at the club that both houli and grigg are uncontracted and while they will improve our list if we get them cheaply it wont be the end of the world if we miss out on both.
ffs we are supposed to be building on the promising players we have not treading water.
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Let's hope Owl it is wrong and Denham has just pilfered this off BF or some tradeweek post on twitter. It's a dud trade if true :scream.
Why don't we offer Dean Polo? Adam Thomson?
???
Other clubs aren't so dumb as us and trade something decent for our uncontracted duds who will be delisted.
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Let's hope Owl it is wrong and Denham has just pilfered this off BF or some tradeweek post on twitter. It's a dud trade if true :scream.
Why don't we offer Dean Polo? Adam Thomson?
???
Other clubs aren't so dumb as us and trade something decent for our uncontracted duds who will be delisted.
Have we offered them?
Unless we get a upgrade in picks.
Collins is a bit slow don't forget.
:)
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There should be an organised movement among members tomorrow phoning the club and telling them that if it goes ahead, no renewal
so do you barrack for richmond or andy collins ???? i barrack for richmond and will be a paid up member till i die gee people carry on here its only one player its not lids cotch or dusty its only andy collins ::)
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
It's not necessarily the fact that it's Collins, Davey, it's the fact that we didn't have to give them ANYTHING. He could have waltzed into the club in the PSD.
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
It's not necessarily the fact that it's Collins, Davey, it's the fact that we didn't have to give them ANYTHING. He could have waltzed into the club in the PSD.
Fair call man. Guess we're committed to taking Houli in the PSD instead.
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Plenty see Collins with the rose coloured glasses.
I thought his year was disappointing overall and question whether he has what it takes to go the next step.
He is really quite a nothing player at this point.
There is a reason we are chasing outside types from other clubs and moving on our own.
Not fussed one iota if he goes.
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Personally I don't think this is all that bad, both boys are the same age, Grigg is 190cm and 84kgs, Collins 187cm and 80kgs, both will grow fill out but Grigg has the build to be alot bigger. Collins hasn't cemented his place in our side, had a good last quarter against the Swans and everyone fell in love with him. Still along way to go for Collins. I think Grigg is mentally and physically ahead of Collins at this time. I would support the trade if it is in fact true.
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Well IMO it is a bad decision, very bad, not just for the fact that Collins was really starting to do some nice things but the fact that if it goes ahead and Grigg fails...... welcome our new whipping boy. Very unfortunate if it goes that way.
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Blues show interest in Tigers' Collins
Emma Quayle
October 9, 2010
RICHMOND forward Andrew Collins yesterday emerged as a potential trade for Carlton's Shaun Grigg, as the Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn were far apart on a deal to get Josh Hill into brown and gold and Fremantle and Collingwood began discussing Chris Tarrant's return home.
The Blues are seeking a player for Grigg, who declared his desire to join the Tigers this week, and have expressed their interest in Collins, who emerged as a livewire up forward this season, playing 15 games.
Grigg, who played just eight games this season, was drafted to the Blues as a priority pick (No. 19) in the 2006 draft, while Collins was snared at No. 73 the same year.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/blues-show-interest-in-tigers-collins-20101008-16c4o.html
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Hey OE, does the trade period continue over the weekend mate??
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Yep WAT. Trade week goes to 2pm Monday.
In just his second season at Punt Road, Collins made a name for himself when he was the hero of Richmond's come-from-behind win over Sydney at the MCG in round 14 with the final two goals of the match.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/blues-tigers-swap-grigg-collins/story-e6frg7mf-1225936186345[/i]
One thing to query re-reading Denham's article is he doesn't know that 2010 was Collins' 4th year at Punt Rd ::). He made his debut in the seniors 2009 so this year is Andy's 2nd year in the seniors. Also Emma Quayle is saying Carlton are showing interest in Collins rather than it's a done deal.
A Carlton supporter on their BF board is saying the deal hasn't been finalised yet and it may include an upgrade of a pick for Richmond. So make of that what you will.
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It's a nothing trade. North get a key forward who at 22 avgs just under 2 goals per game for pick 80ish and we give up a 3rd pick for one player and possibly a decent, emerging player for another one.
I just feel that as a club we tend to pull the trigger during trade week.
Not patient and seem to lack that tough edge to our negotiating.
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appalling decision if true simply bc it doesnt need to be done
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Seriously dont get wahat all the love for Collins is for.Having said that thought we could have given up less given the circumstances
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THE SKY IS FALLING
THE SKY IS FALLING
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I like Collins but my only issue if this trade goes ahead as reported is that I think he has more currrency than a straight swap for Grigg. We should be getting a pick or an upgrade to make it fair value, especially given that Grigg has said he is going.
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What the hell are the club doing :banghead
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:ROTFL
Meltdown. I love it.
As yet uncomfirmed, but that doesn't stop people loosing the plot.
If it is true?
How many people complain about "all our lightweights who get pushed off the swings too easily?"
Collins 187 and 80 kg (start of 2010). That's a long way short of the 100 rule which is a pretty good rule of thumb.
What happened to cries of "been in the system 4 years and is still a lightweight?"
Both griggs and houli are no good because they have only played 43 and 26 games respectively in 4 years, yet people go spare when there is talk of trading out a player who has only played 25 games in four years?
Both these fringe rejects from other clubs have better stats than collins.
Interstingly, Grigg is ranked 13th in the league for average score assists per game. houli 41. Collins doesnt appear in the top 100.
For what it's worth i find it strange that Carlton would be interested in yet another skinny outside flanker type. If they are, well as much as i think Collins shows potential, i wouldn't loose any sleep over it, particularly if we get a pick upgrade.
The club did say they would make some tough decisions. Seems like some are not ready for tough decisions.
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some of you guys are pathetic, the club know what they are doing, if collins was that good they would not trade him but obv they see a better upside in grigg
the club comes 1st
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:ROTFL
Meltdown. I love it.
As yet uncomfirmed, but that doesn't stop people loosing the plot.
If it is true?
How many people complain about "all our lightweights who get pushed off the swings too easily?"
Collins 187 and 80 kg (start of 2010). That's a long way short of the 100 rule which is a pretty good rule of thumb.
What happened to cries of "been in the system 4 years and is still a lightweight?"
Both griggs and houli are no good because they have only played 43 and 26 games respectively in 4 years, yet people go spare when there is talk of trading out a player who has only played 25 games in four years?
Both these fringe rejects from other clubs have better stats than collins.
Interstingly, Grigg is ranked 13th in the league for average score assists per game. houli 41. Collins doesnt appear in the top 100.
For what it's worth i find it strange that Carlton would be interested in yet another skinny outside flanker type. If they are, well as much as i think Collins shows potential, i wouldn't loose any sleep over it, particularly if we get a pick upgrade.
The club did say they would make some tough decisions. Seems like some are not ready for tough decisions.
spot on al
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there was no need to give carlton anything. carlton should get zip. they are a poohouse club who our club had a moral duty to do over 1 million percent.
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:ROTFL
Meltdown. I love it.
As yet uncomfirmed, but that doesn't stop people loosing the plot.
If it is true?
Not sure what your point is al... most of the posts say or imply terrible decision IF true....
How many people complain about "all our lightweights who get pushed off the swings too easily?"
Collins 187 and 80 kg (start of 2010). That's a long way short of the 100 rule which is a pretty good rule of thumb.
What happened to cries of "been in the system 4 years and is still a lightweight?"
Both griggs and houli are no good because they have only played 43 and 26 games respectively in 4 years, yet people go spare when there is talk of trading out a player who has only played 25 games in four years?
Both these fringe rejects from other clubs have better stats than collins.
Interstingly, Grigg is ranked 13th in the league for average score assists per game. houli 41. Collins doesnt appear in the top 100.
For what it's worth i find it strange that Carlton would be interested in yet another skinny outside flanker type. If they are, well as much as i think Collins shows potential, i wouldn't loose any sleep over it, particularly if we get a pick upgrade.
The club did say they would make some tough decisions. Seems like some are not ready for tough decisions.
So objectively, we are swapping like for like? From a strong position where we should have them bent over because of the threat of Grigg walking into the PSD. A good trade negotiator should be able to get us our cake and eat it too. We should be able to get one of Grigg or Houli in a very favourable trade deal because of the threat of him walking, and the other in the PSD, keeping a rangy type like Collins who has shown a bit this year IMO. Which is where I reserve some conditional praise.... IF the mooted Grigg-Collins trade is really a ploy to spur Essendon into accepting something for Houli (trading for Grigg would clear the way for Houli to go first up in the PSD), so that we can eventually pick up Grigg in the PSD, then they are being very clever.
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relax ramps lets see what the actual deal will be before we stuff out.
For all we know there may be a very nice draft pick coming our way
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relax ramps lets see what the actual deal will be before we stuff out.
For all we know there may be a very nice draft pick coming our way
That would make it a different result blaisee and possibly a better result for us- lets hope so! - but this thread is about Denhams article where he mentions a straight swap.
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carlton have asked about collo that is all
we dont know if the club is prepared to trade him and if they are it still has to get past the man himself
and i'd bet collo will likely knock them back
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:ROTFL
Meltdown. I love it.
As yet uncomfirmed, but that doesn't stop people loosing the plot.
If it is true?
How many people complain about "all our lightweights who get pushed off the swings too easily?"
Collins 187 and 80 kg (start of 2010). That's a long way short of the 100 rule which is a pretty good rule of thumb.
What happened to cries of "been in the system 4 years and is still a lightweight?"
Both griggs and houli are no good because they have only played 43 and 26 games respectively in 4 years, yet people go spare when there is talk of trading out a player who has only played 25 games in four years?
Both these fringe rejects from other clubs have better stats than collins.
Interstingly, Grigg is ranked 13th in the league for average score assists per game. houli 41. Collins doesnt appear in the top 100.
For what it's worth i find it strange that Carlton would be interested in yet another skinny outside flanker type. If they are, well as much as i think Collins shows potential, i wouldn't loose any sleep over it, particularly if we get a pick upgrade.
The club did say they would make some tough decisions. Seems like some are not ready for tough decisions.
Excellent post Al, your on the money.
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swapping collins for grigg in a straight swap is not a tough decision - its simply a dumb decision.
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Lets not get hysterical over this people....Its Andrew Collins NOT Trent Cotchin .
As much as I like Collins-lets be realistic.
(1) He is a skinny kid.
(2) After 4 years he is still a fringe player and is borderline best 22.
(3) Even taking into account his last quarter heroics against Sydney and a great soccer goal against the Saints.....Im still not convinced that Collo is going to make it.
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its not about collins, its about the principal of not caving in when your dealing from a position of strength. a straight collins for grigg swap will see us get a reputation for being easily stitched up in trade week. its not a good look.
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The issue is not that Collins is some kind of superstar, it's that we should be screwing the Blues for all we can. If there isn't an additional pick, or an upgrade to a pick, then we are really doing poorly.
We shouldn't be giving either Carlton or Essendon anything of any value (pick 50 is the max I would give up for either Grigg or Houli). If neither club accepts, we take one in the PSD and the other can go jump.
Why can't Richmond be arseholes at trade time like other clubs manage to be?
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its not about collins, its about the principal of not caving in when your dealing from a position of strength. a straight collins for grigg swap will see us get a reputation for being easily stitched up in trade week. its not a good look.
Beat me to it. If this trade is a straight swap, it's a sign of weakness. Not what I expected under Hardwick.
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i will put a bomp at punt road if this is true and blow the lying,morons to their death!
AC is at worst,worth persisting with.
I rate the kid over griggs.
Spoke to W Johnno -tells me Grigg is an hole bloke.
Wake the eff up RFC - I dont want to go to jail :banghead
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WHERE IS MY HANDBAG
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The issue is not that Collins is some kind of superstar, it's that we should be screwing the Blues for all we can. If there isn't an additional pick, or an upgrade to a pick, then we are really doing poorly.
We shouldn't be giving either Carlton or Essendon anything of any value (pick 50 is the max I would give up for either Grigg or Houli). If neither club accepts, we take one in the PSD and the other can go jump.
Why can't Richmond be behindholes at trade time like other clubs manage to be?
6. 2010 Post-season, AFL listed player access
Gold Coast to have capacity to pre-list 10 players who had previously nominated for the AFL Draft, or were previously listed with an AFL club.
http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default.aspx?newsid=76855
To me that means GC can take Houli and Grigg as one of their "pre-lists" if the players are prepared to go there.
Why wouldn't Grigg or Houli take a guaranteed spot at Gold Coast rather than risk the drafts?
Why wouldn't Gold Coast take a player that an existing club wants?
Note that in todays Age, Houli's manager says he now is prepared to nominate for all drafts rather than stay at Essendon.
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i will put a bomp at punt road if this is true and blow the lying,morons to their death!
AC is at worst,worth persisting with.
I rate the kid over griggs.
Spoke to W Johnno -tells me Grigg is an behindhole bloke.
Wake the eff up RFC - I dont want to go to jail :banghead
talking about a hole blokes , w druggo is right up there as the no1 a hole
and as if he would say anything good about a kid who hates his beloved blues
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Wallace just said the deal was expected to go through today but it'll probably now be within the next 24 hours. He said he wouldn't have let Collins go as he comes from a footy family and is a footy nut. However it's one of those needs basis trade. Richmond must believe they need the defensive aspects of Grigg ahead of the offensive aspects of Collins.
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Na fair call.... lets keep every skinny kid that has been on our list for 4 years in a side that finished 15th. No need for change, if we all cross our fingers we should be right.
Wake up people, Andrew at best will be nothing more than a fringe player at our club or any club for that matter. I love the fact the club is making tough, educated calls on our players and opposition players.
My brother barracks for Carlton and i go to some games with him and i think Grigg has HEAPS more upside than Collo. He wants to come to our club, so i will be more than happy with the deal if it goes through.
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swapping collins for grigg in a straight swap is not a tough decision - its simply a dumb decision.
Based on what? One game against Sydney?
IF this trade is true we are effectively swapping outside type players from the same draft.
We get the bigger bodied player.
We get the player that has played doubled the games.
We get the player that comes out on top in most stats.
We get the player who on average, twice a game he will spot up a teammate who can then goal. ( ranked 13 in the league), playing off the half backline or midfield.
We get the player who has the build and tank to rotate through the midfield when the top liners rest.
All this talk about how we should be bending Carlton over shows just how far removed from the real world many are. If you actively go out to screw someone, expect the same to be done back to you in the future. It's not like selling some fool dodgy speakers from a white van in the Highpoint car park. You have to go back and deal with these people year after year.
Of course having an early pick in the PSD gives you the upper hand in negotiations, but you still have to be realistic. If you actively encourage Grigg into the PSD just because you can, what do you think Carlton are going to be trying to do in 3 years time when they have an early pick in the PSD?
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lol @ the drama queens.
The Tiges are ahead on this deal.
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ur probably right Al but idgaf. :scream
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ur probably right Al but idgaf. :scream
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol
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Success requires hard work and dedication, and it means making hard decisions. It requires an absolute resolve to set this Club on a path and stick to it.
...
This club cannot afford to take short cuts and every decision we make will be done with a Premiership Cup in mind.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/101723/default.aspx
Hardwick warned us that there would be hard decisions made.
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ur probably right Al but idgaf. :scream
:lol
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Tis' done
Tigers grab Grigg
Richmond has completed its second trade for the week, acquiring Shaun Grigg from Carlton in a direct swap for Andrew Collins.
Grigg, 22, 190cm and 85kg, is a tough, hard-running midfielder, who has played 43 league games since being recruited by the Blues, with selection 19, in the 2006 AFL National Draft.
He played eight of the last nine games in an impressive finish to the 2010 season, before straining a hamstring, which forced him out of Carlton’s elimination final against Sydney. In five of those appearances, he gathered 20 possessions or more, with a career-high 29 touches against West Coast at Subiaco in Round 17.
“Shaun is the type of player we are looking to add to our list. He’s got some experience, having been in the AFL system a few years, but is still young and will add to our midfield mix,” said Richmond’s General Manager of Football, Craig Cameron.
“We believe he will be a good fit for our side. He’s got a bit of size for a midfielder, is hard at it, and has a really good “engine”, which will help us next year with the changes to the interchange system.”
“And he will give us the opportunity to release some of our midfielders to be more damaging options across the field.”
Cameron reiterated the Club’s philosophy during this trade period . . .
“It’s been a priority for us to protect our selections in the upcoming draft, so we can recruit more young talent. But if the opportunity came up to bring in some players who are in the right age and experience bracket, then we’d be interested. And, Shaun certainly falls into that category,” he said.
Collins, 22, was drafted by Richmond at selection 73 in the 2006 National Draft, and has played 25 games since making his league debut in 2009.
“Andrew is a quality, young player, but, at the end of the day, you have to give up something decent to get something decent, and that’s what happened with this trade,” Cameron said.
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/103974/default.aspx
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All this talk about how we should be bending Carlton over shows just how far removed from the real world many are. If you actively go out to screw someone, expect the same to be done back to you in the future. It's not like selling some fool dodgy speakers from a white van in the Highpoint car park. You have to go back and deal with these people year after year.
Of course having an early pick in the PSD gives you the upper hand in negotiations, but you still have to be realistic. If you actively encourage Grigg into the PSD just because you can, what do you think Carlton are going to be trying to do in 3 years time when they have an early pick in the PSD?
Ask Freo or Melbourne about dealing with Carlton. We come across as soft.
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did freo, or Melbourne, tell you that?
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What a collosal cock up that is
Gone from a decent trade period to a crap one in one trade
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What a collosal cock up that is
Gone from a decent trade period to a crap one in one trade
Why?
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Massive Cock Up - MASSIVE FAIL!
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I like Collins but if he was required, they wouldn't have traded him.
We obviously have a surplus of his type, or can't see too much development left in him compared to Grigg.
I trust Hardwick and the coaching/list management staff.
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FUKKINN DISGRACEFUL MOVE
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RFCs administrators are being slammed on every forum possible. And rightly so. You got Carlton down, you kick em until there dead, you dont pull your pants down and cop it! We need tough bastards running Richmond not people who cave in under pressure to do deals.
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Happy we've kept our picks.
Sad for Andy Collins. Imagine being traded to Carlscum :chuck
Sounds like we've exchanged equivalent players to fill mutual needs. Will have to see how it all pans out.
One thing for sure Grigg is a Tiger now and wanted to come so he has 100% support from me. :thumbsup
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Collins > Grigg.
Why anyone would do a fair deal with carlton is beyond my anal passage.
Weak Dogs.
I'll be waiting for griggs to be a turd....
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RFCs administrators are being slammed on every forum possible. And rightly so. You got Carlton down, you kick em until there dead, you dont pull your pants down and cop it! We need tough bastards running Richmond not people who cave in under pressure to do deals.
what happens, Ramps, when Carlton are at the bottom and we are higher up, in about three years time. You dont think Carlton may want repay the favour?l Or do you think it's possible to behave like an ursehole in negotioations and not expect any repercussions?
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One thing for sure Grigg is a Tiger now and wanted to come so he has 100% support from me. :thumbsup
He's gunna need it. There will be many who hate him already and nothing will ever change their mind. There will even be many who want him to fail.
Sad actually.
I wonder if all clubs have them?
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RFCs administrators are being slammed on every forum possible. And rightly so. You got Carlton down, you kick em until there dead, you dont pull your pants down and cop it! We need tough bastards running Richmond not people who cave in under pressure to do deals.
what happens, Ramps, when Carlton are at the bottom and we are higher up, in about three years time. You dont think Carlton may want repay the favour?l Or do you think it's possible to behave like an ursehole in negotioations and not expect any repercussions?
Its Carlton, they are nothing but mangy dogs. Its our obligation to put the boots in. Its our duty to the history of the club we are supporters of. Richmonds footy department have shown major weakness.
As for what happens down the track- do you really believe they would treat us well. Ill tell you what theyd do they will stick the boots in and laugh at us and say that was years ago- who cares if you do us a favor. Weak as pee this effort IMHO.
Just shocking. Our footy department is officially being laughed at on forums and talk sites as we speak.
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I'm happy with this.
Grigg can get the pill and we need more Inside grunts and can sacrifise a weedy hff who just can't put on any bulk.
Reminded me of Aaron Fiora but with more guts but not as quick.
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One thing for sure Grigg is a Tiger now and wanted to come so he has 100% support from me. :thumbsup
He's gunna need it. There will be many who hate him already and nothing will ever change their mind. There will even be many who want him to fail.
Sad actually.
I wonder if all clubs have them?
Brownlow 2011 or public execution.
Madness.
Collins will go on - Griggs the effen dog carlscum sob wont.
You weak dog grigss!
FO !!!!
Ur not welcome.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSlBKEfeCVo
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What a collosal cock up that is
Gone from a decent trade period to a crap one in one trade
Why?
You really need an explanation?
We had all the power in this trade yet we bent over the table and just "presented" to the Carlton Football Club
If both players were contracted and we didn't have Pick 2 in the PSD then it'd probably be a trade where it was a 50-50 or slight win of a trade to us, but that wasn't the scenario. We just folded, our negotiators are pee weak.
-
Bottom line is that Collins did not have to go if he didn't want.
Perhaps the wrong player is copping the stuff.
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RFCs administrators are being slammed on every forum possible. And rightly so. You got Carlton down, you kick em until there dead, you dont pull your pants down and cop it! We need tough bastards running Richmond not people who cave in under pressure to do deals.
what happens, Ramps, when Carlton are at the bottom and we are higher up, in about three years time. You dont think Carlton may want repay the favour?l Or do you think it's possible to behave like an ursehole in negotioations and not expect any repercussions?
LMAO al - yeah they are going to return the favour. We wouldn't want to pee them off or they will do to us what they did to Port Adelaide with Nick Stevens.... hang on, Port Adelaide did nothing to Carlton and Carlton ripped them off, and no-one has returned the favour to Carlton since.
Al you are in lala land - you seem quite pleased with this little theory of yours, but really there is no unwritten code of ethics out there it is dog eat dog and we just had Carlton by the balls and let them go.
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jake 100% spot on! Carlton would shaft us in a heartbeat. Today RFC supporters have been failed by the management!
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What if Wallace had of made this choice?
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absolute joke. i'd take Collins over Grigg any day.
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RFCs administrators are being slammed on every forum possible. And rightly so. You got Carlton down, you kick em until there dead, you dont pull your pants down and cop it! We need tough bastards running Richmond not people who cave in under pressure to do deals.
what happens, Ramps, when Carlton are at the bottom and we are higher up, in about three years time. You dont think Carlton may want repay the favour?l Or do you think it's possible to behave like an ursehole in negotioations and not expect any repercussions?
LMAO al - yeah they are going to return the favour. We wouldn't want to pee them off or they will do to us what they did to Port Adelaide with Nick Stevens.... hang on, Port Adelaide did nothing to Carlton and Carlton ripped them off, and no-one has returned the favour to Carlton since.
Al you are in lala land - you seem quite pleased with this little theory of yours, but really there is no unwritten code of ethics out there it is dog eat dog and we just had Carlton by the balls and let them go.
Of course I'm in la la land Jake. Its called the internet. Its full of people who think that how you act here is how you survive in the real world.
In my other la la land, Jake, I have to deal and negotiate with people most days to earn an income. I know what works for your own long term benefit and what doesn't.
Tell me about the Port - Carlton negotiations Jake, What did Carlton offer and what did Port want?
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Very upset
I was a andrew Collins fan
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I really liked how Collins was coming along and I would of preferred to see him kicking goals for us. Carltank isn't famous for their great trade integrity or their list retention integrity for that matter so I really don't give rats hairy clacker about any threats of them possibly stealing a fringe player down the track who decides to walk out on us. IF someone decided to do that, then thems the breaks imo. Its when it is a big name player that it hurts a lot and you want real compo, making a big carry on for a bloke they were barely playing is horsesh!t. For example Will says he wants to leave, we are going to have to take what comes for him or when his contract runs out he can shaft us good and proper. There is no point flogging a dead horse, you try find him a home and get something decent, the difference is he hasn't nominated a club I suppose.
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What a collosal cock up that is
Gone from a decent trade period to a crap one in one trade
Why?
You really need an explanation?
We had all the power in this trade yet we bent over the table and just "presented" to the Carlton Football Club
If both players were contracted and we didn't have Pick 2 in the PSD then it'd probably be a trade where it was a 50-50 or slight win of a trade to us, but that wasn't the scenario. We just folded, our negotiators are pee weak.
Yeah I would like an explaination, or i wouldnt have asked ;D
I posted before why i think the deal is a fair one.
It suits our needs. Our needs are not to screw over another club just to satisfy the blood lust of the supporters.
You get a fair deal that gets you want you want, you take it.
No business can survive thinking otherwise.
Good ole deepthroat on BF reakons there is someone on their Radar for the PSD
RFC official said that hopefully they can keep pick 2 in the draft get another good player.
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Can't believe we couldn't get a pick upgrade as part of this deal as well. Weak.
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People are going crazy on BF forums. Lets back Hardwick and the football department decision. Obviously they see Grigg being more effective for us in moving forward. Now lets give Grigg 100% support as we would for any other player.
:gotigers
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Its full of people who think that how you act here is how you survive in the real world.
LMAO! :cheers
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ramps and co
u r all dramA queen fairies
grigg is a better player than collins so suck it up all of u
welcome to tigerland grigg
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People are going crazy on BF forums. Lets back Hardwick and the football department decision. Obviously they see Grigg being more effective for us in moving forward. Now lets give Grigg 100% support as we would for any other player.
:gotigers
(http://static.artbible.info/large/thomas.jpg)
Call me a catholic frog or Doubting Thomas......i just dont believe.
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ramps and co
u r all dramA queen fairies
grigg is a better player than collins so suck it up all of u
welcome to tigerland grigg
Not the point X. Point is if you got Carlton by the knackers then you finish em. You dont pull your pants down and cop it! Who are our administrators working for anyway. We pay there salaries, the least they could do is show some spine and represent us properly rather than just caving in. Richmond are too soft when it comes to trading!
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Not too unhappy with this deal.
Didn't mind Collins but he was skinny and defense wasn't his strong part
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For stuff sake ramps, if you want see Carlton screwed over that bad go and burn down Princess Park. Dont expect the club to forgo the bigger picture just to screw them over.
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For eff sake ramps, if you want see Carlton screwed over that bad go and burn down Princess Park. Dont expect the club to forgo the bigger picture just to screw them over.
why would i go to jail for those pricks. people like you just reckon that theyll return the favor next time where looking for a favor in trade week. they'll spit on us and then laugh themselves silly.
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ramps and co
u r all dramA queen fairies
grigg is a better player than collins so suck it up all of u
welcome to tigerland grigg
Not the point X. Point is if you got Carlton by the knackers then you finish em. You dont pull your pants down and cop it! Who are our administrators working for anyway. We pay there salaries, the least they could do is show some spine and represent us properly rather than just caving in. Richmond are too soft when it comes to trading!
we traded a nothing player for a kid with tons of balls potential and more upside
we finished 15th ffs and u r a hardwick fan and hardwick wanted grigg
im with hardwick all the way
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and if andy collins didnt wanna go he didnt have too dont forget that
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well yeah I am a hardwick fan and I will continue to support hardwick as I will support Grigg coz the kid isnt at fault. the worst thing we can do is go after Grigg. Lets all hope he succeeds and hopefully all our supporters get in and support him. none of us want a mcmahon type situation anyway. i think collins was overrated anyway, im just disappointed we didnt screw carlton when we got the chance.
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I really rated Collo, disapointed as I rate him higher than Grigg but the way I see it we now get Grigg and Houli for Collins - Houli goes into the PSD and we take him.
Or we now withdraw the offer of a third round pick and offer Polo. Too slow Bombers
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well yeah I am a hardwick fan and I will continue to support hardwick as I will support Grigg coz the kid isnt at fault. the worst thing we can do is go after Grigg.
Just to even things up Rampsovoula,I'll be his nemesis,waiting at his every possession to inflict the scorn of 100 years of hatred to all things Carlton.
LMAO - Somebody has to do it.
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One thing for sure Grigg is a Tiger now and wanted to come so he has 100% support from me. :thumbsup
He's gunna need it. There will be many who hate him already and nothing will ever change their mind. There will even be many who want him to fail.
Sad actually.
I wonder if all clubs have them?
Madness.
Collins will go on - Griggs the effen dog carlscum sob wont.
You weak dog grigss!
Worst post I've seen in some time.
embarrassing, really. :-\
Brownlow 2011 or public execution.
FO !!!!
Ur not welcome.
Worst post I've seen in some time.
embarrassing, really. :-\
Edited quote
-
For eff sake ramps, if you want see Carlton screwed over that bad go and burn down Princess Park. Dont expect the club to forgo the bigger picture just to screw them over.
why would i go to jail for those pricks. people like you just reckon that theyll return the favor next time where looking for a favor in trade week. they'll spit on us and then laugh themselves silly.
Not sure about the people like me ramps, but myself I reakon if someone has something you want, and they want something you are prepared to give up, you take the offer.
The club made a decision that they believe will take the club forward, but your dirty on them because they didnt fulfill a vendetta you have against Carlton.
If you let petty vendettas rule your decision making you will go nowhere.
Do whats best for you, not what's worst for someone else.
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well yeah I am a hardwick fan and I will continue to support hardwick as I will support Grigg coz the kid isnt at fault. the worst thing we can do is go after Grigg. Lets all hope he succeeds and hopefully all our supporters get in and support him. none of us want a mcmahon type situation anyway. i think collins was overrated anyway, im just disappointed we didnt screw carlton when we got the chance.
what makes u think we didnt?
we traded a player taken very late in the draft for a kid who was a high draft pick
we won out of this deal that means carlscum were screwed
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What a collosal cock up that is
Gone from a decent trade period to a crap one in one trade
Why?
You really need an explanation?
We had all the power in this trade yet we bent over the table and just "presented" to the Carlton Football Club
If both players were contracted and we didn't have Pick 2 in the PSD then it'd probably be a trade where it was a 50-50 or slight win of a trade to us, but that wasn't the scenario. We just folded, our negotiators are pee weak.
Yeah I would like an explaination, or i wouldnt have asked ;D
I posted before why i think the deal is a fair one.
It suits our needs. Our needs are not to screw over another club just to satisfy the blood lust of the supporters.
You get a fair deal that gets you want you want, you take it.
No business can survive thinking otherwise.
Good ole deepthroat on BF reakons there is someone on their Radar for the PSD
RFC official said that hopefully they can keep pick 2 in the draft get another good player.
The difference is that you think it is a fair deal, others don't. For some reason you seem to think that opinion overrides all others.
The argument that Grigg has delivered more than Collins or that he has significantly more upside is pure opinion, not fact.
In their career, they both average about 17 possessions, 4 marks and Collins has an extra tackle per game.
As for the weight thing, I thought we were looking for elite kicks and outside mids - does Grigg or Bacher truly fit that profile?
Grigg has player 18 more games but is a year older and has a year more development under his belt.
Whose to say Collins won't put on 4 or 5 kilos next year, play 22 games and develop the engine required to play midfield.
On the flip side, Grigg might play 22 games, have an injury free run and improve his decision making to off set his average kicking.
There are all marginal arguments for or against this trade.
As for the negotiating a "fair deal" thing, honestly some people think they are part of the United Nations!!!!
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My initial reaction was 'not happy jan' not so much at the direct swap, but like others have mentioned, thought we were too soft in negotiations and are showing way to much eagerness to land these 2 guys who are, lets get serious, midde of the road midfield rotation types.
I wasnt a massive AC fan, but was prepared to give him time bc i like thinking footballers, not enough of them around especially in yellow and black!
But lets not jump the gun yet ppl, the club may have someone on the radar for the PSD, in which case this will turn into a good move. I will back the footy departments judgement that grigg suits their plans more than AC, and tbh Im glad we've still kept our picks. Give them a chance to play out the whole trade week plan b4 passing judgement. However if we dare give away our bock pick or 2nd rounder for houli, i will tear down the place :whistle
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Hello all... First time posting die hard Tigers fan been reading for a few months now but all this drama surrounding trade week was too tempting for me not to add my 2 cents.
I understand the disappointment that we didn't completely bend the blues over in regards to the trade but i have to trust that the club knows what its doing. We couldn't get both grigg and houli in the PSD and there was (and still is in the case of houli) a chance they would enter the national draft where it seems clear that fans would have been unhappy with anything higher than a 4th round pick selection of them but by then i am sure someone would have snapped them up. The club may also be targeting someone else with its PSD Selection.
Personally i would prefer Grigg over Collins as well. Our players for years have been too slight and easy to bump off the ball and Collins was the clear example of one of these players. Sure he had a touch of class but it was rarely displayed. He was injury prone and far to unaccountable to be playing in midfield. His best position was as a forward flanker but his defensive pressure was still poor and one day i would like to envisage Troy Taylor playing this role and being much more dangerous in the position. After 4 years he was still a fringe 22 player and one that i thought was dispensable. For me the worst case scenario is that Grigg becomes a fringe 22 (but i do believe he has a role in our best 22) player in which case the trade is a nill all draw.
I liked andy and though he busted his bum for the club but we need to get bigger and stronger in a very literal sense and i believe this trade will help with this process. So hello again to all anyone feel free to tell me how much they disagree i look forward to some good debate on these matters and the future of the RFC.
Morgan.
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Hello all... First time posting die hard Tigers fan been reading for a few months now but all this drama surrounding trade week was too tempting for me not to add my 2 cents.
I understand the disappointment that we didn't completely bend the blues over in regards to the trade but i have to trust that the club knows what its doing. We couldn't get both grigg and houli in the PSD and there was (and still is in the case of houli) a chance they would enter the national draft where it seems clear that fans would have been unhappy with anything higher than a 4th round pick selection of them but by then i am sure someone would have snapped them up. The club may also be targeting someone else with its PSD Selection.
Personally i would prefer Grigg over Collins as well. Our players for years have been too slight and easy to bump off the ball and Collins was the clear example of one of these players. Sure he had a touch of class but it was rarely displayed. He was injury prone and far to unaccountable to be playing in midfield. His best position was as a forward flanker but his defensive pressure was still poor and one day i would like to envisage Troy Taylor playing this role and being much more dangerous in the position. After 4 years he was still a fringe 22 player and one that i thought was dispensable. For me the worst case scenario is that Grigg becomes a fringe 22 (but i do believe he has a role in our best 22) player in which case the trade is a nill all draw.
I liked andy and though he busted his bum for the club but we need to get bigger and stronger in a very literal sense and i believe this trade will help with this process. So hello again to all anyone feel free to tell me how much they disagree i look forward to some good debate on these matters and the future of the RFC.
Morgan.
welcome Morgan, reckon you'll enjoy the tiger talk on oer.
All the best
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Hello all... First time posting die hard Tigers fan been reading for a few months now but all this drama surrounding trade week was too tempting for me not to add my 2 cents.
I understand the disappointment that we didn't completely bend the blues over in regards to the trade but i have to trust that the club knows what its doing. We couldn't get both grigg and houli in the PSD and there was (and still is in the case of houli) a chance they would enter the national draft where it seems clear that fans would have been unhappy with anything higher than a 4th round pick selection of them but by then i am sure someone would have snapped them up. The club may also be targeting someone else with its PSD Selection.
Personally i would prefer Grigg over Collins as well. Our players for years have been too slight and easy to bump off the ball and Collins was the clear example of one of these players. Sure he had a touch of class but it was rarely displayed. He was injury prone and far to unaccountable to be playing in midfield. His best position was as a forward flanker but his defensive pressure was still poor and one day i would like to envisage Troy Taylor playing this role and being much more dangerous in the position. After 4 years he was still a fringe 22 player and one that i thought was dispensable. For me the worst case scenario is that Grigg becomes a fringe 22 (but i do believe he has a role in our best 22) player in which case the trade is a nill all draw.
I liked andy and though he busted his bum for the club but we need to get bigger and stronger in a very literal sense and i believe this trade will help with this process. So hello again to all anyone feel free to tell me how much they disagree i look forward to some good debate on these matters and the future of the RFC.
Morgan.
Welcome to the board Morgan, I have to agree with you about Grigg and Collin trade. Collin has had enough time to build a body and push into the 22. Unfortunately it hasnt turned out the best for him at Richmond.
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What a collosal cock up that is
Gone from a decent trade period to a crap one in one trade
Why?
You really need an explanation?
We had all the power in this trade yet we bent over the table and just "presented" to the Carlton Football Club
If both players were contracted and we didn't have Pick 2 in the PSD then it'd probably be a trade where it was a 50-50 or slight win of a trade to us, but that wasn't the scenario. We just folded, our negotiators are pee weak.
Yeah I would like an explaination, or i wouldnt have asked ;D
I posted before why i think the deal is a fair one.
It suits our needs. Our needs are not to screw over another club just to satisfy the blood lust of the supporters.
You get a fair deal that gets you want you want, you take it.
No business can survive thinking otherwise.
Good ole deepthroat on BF reakons there is someone on their Radar for the PSD
RFC official said that hopefully they can keep pick 2 in the draft get another good player.
The difference is that you think it is a fair deal, others don't. For some reason you seem to think that opinion overrides all others.
The argument that Grigg has delivered more than Collins or that he has significantly more upside is pure opinion, not fact.
In their career, they both average about 17 possessions, 4 marks and Collins has an extra tackle per game.
As for the weight thing, I thought we were looking for elite kicks and outside mids - does Grigg or Bacher truly fit that profile?
Grigg has player 18 more games but is a year older and has a year more development under his belt.
Whose to say Collins won't put on 4 or 5 kilos next year, play 22 games and develop the engine required to play midfield.
On the flip side, Grigg might play 22 games, have an injury free run and improve his decision making to off set his average kicking.
There are all marginal arguments for or against this trade.
As for the negotiating a "fair deal" thing, honestly some people think they are part of the United Nations!!!!
I dont think my opinion that it is a fair deal over rides all others. So far no one has really put forward why it is not a fair deal so happy for that to be out there.
From your post it seems you think it a fair deal too?
Most of the angst here seems to be that we didnt bend Carlton over. Big deal. The club got what they wanted for something they were prepared to let go. that's all that matters.
The idea of trading is to get what you want, not to screw over another club because your supporters hate them.
It's not about being like the united nations, it how things work in the real world.
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there was no need to give carlton anything. carlton should get zip. they are a poohouse club who our club had a moral duty to do over 1 million percent.
spot on Ramps. We should not be dealing with these idiots at all.
After what they did to us over the Matheson deal we should have let Grigg Slip through to the PSD.
If this is Cameron's way of justifying his position then we are stuffed. I shake my head at some decisions this bloke makes.
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The idea of trading is to get what you want, not to screw over another club because your supporters hate them.
Wrong. The idea is to get the best possible deal for your club.
Grigg for Collins if both were contracted, fair swap. Grigg uncontracted, Richmond with PSD pick 2, we could have done better. We should have done better.
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there was no need to give carlton anything. carlton should get zip. they are a poohouse club who our club had a moral duty to do over 1 million percent.
spot on Ramps. We should not be dealing with these idiots at all.
After what they did to us over the Matheson deal we should have let Grigg Slip through to the PSD.
If this is Cameron's way of justifying his position then we are stuffed. I shake my head at some decisions this bloke makes.
[/quote
It's not about screwing certain clubs, it's about improving ours!!!!! We need to stay focussed on that and not on petty vendettas.
Andrew is a skinny boy and of all people on here Daniel you recognise that more than most. No big loss
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The idea of trading is to get what you want, not to screw over another club because your supporters hate them.
Wrong. The idea is to get the best possible deal for your club.
Grigg for Collins if both were contracted, fair swap. Grigg uncontracted, Richmond with PSD pick 2, we could have done better. We should have done better.
What if we have other plans for PSD #2?
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Round 1 will be interesting, will Collins make the blues best 22 for the game?
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What if we have other plans for PSD #2?
We don't tell Carlton that. And we get a better deal for Grigg.
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The difference is that you think it is a fair deal, others don't. For some reason you seem to think that opinion overrides all others.
The argument that Grigg has delivered more than Collins or that he has significantly more upside is pure opinion, not fact.
In their career, they both average about 17 possessions, 4 marks and Collins has an extra tackle per game.
As for the weight thing, I thought we were looking for elite kicks and outside mids - does Grigg or Bacher truly fit that profile?
Grigg has player 18 more games but is a year older and has a year more development under his belt.
Whose to say Collins won't put on 4 or 5 kilos next year, play 22 games and develop the engine required to play midfield.
On the flip side, Grigg might play 22 games, have an injury free run and improve his decision making to off set his average kicking.
There are all marginal arguments for or against this trade.
As for the negotiating a "fair deal" thing, honestly some people think they are part of the United Nations!!!!
[/quote]
I dont think my opinion that it is a fair deal over rides all others. So far no one has really put forward why it is not a fair deal so happy for that to be out there.
From your post it seems you think it a fair deal too?
Most of the angst here seems to be that we didnt bend Carlton over. Big deal. The club got what they wanted for something they were prepared to let go. that's all that matters.
The idea of trading is to get what you want, not to screw over another club because your supporters hate them.
It's not about being like the united nations, it how things work in the real world.
[/quote]
The deal is average - nothing great nothing horrendous.
I would rather see the club develop the players they have instead of trying to re-develop other clubs.
Our strike rate on other clubs players is poor.
I'm not sure what experience you base "real world" for describing fairness in negotiating, "win win" always seemed a bit idealistic to me, I'd be interested to hear more.
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Take the emotion out of it people.
Have upgraded the player and not given up any picks.
Well done Tigers. :)
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What if we have other plans for PSD #2?
We don't tell Carlton that. And we get a better deal for Grigg.
of course you dont tell Carlton that. But they know you are still after Houli and you cant take both in the PSD. With that hanging over your head you lose a bit of your bargaining power.
AS it is we swapped a skinny HFF for a bigger bodied HBF /mid.
Now Essendon have to play ball or risk losing houli for nothing in the PSD.
How that pans out will depend on
1 Essendons attitude,
2 how desperate we are to keep PSD #2
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Take the emotion out of it people.
Have upgraded the player and not given up any picks.
Well done Tigers. :)
Swapped one unproven player for another.
No it isn't, jury out.
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I'm not sure what experience you base "real world" for describing fairness in negotiating, "win win" always seemed a bit idealistic to me, I'd be interested to hear more.
In the business world most transactions are a win/win or pretty damn close.
Sure everyone wants to get the best deal they can, but it normally ends up with every one content. Sometimes one side will have an advantage for one reason or another, sometimes they press that advantage to the fullest sometimes they dont.
If someone tries to continually screw you over, you just don't deal with them.
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Hello all... First time posting die hard Tigers fan been reading for a few months now but all this drama surrounding trade week was too tempting for me not to add my 2 cents.
I understand the disappointment that we didn't completely bend the blues over in regards to the trade but i have to trust that the club knows what its doing. We couldn't get both grigg and houli in the PSD and there was (and still is in the case of houli) a chance they would enter the national draft where it seems clear that fans would have been unhappy with anything higher than a 4th round pick selection of them but by then i am sure someone would have snapped them up. The club may also be targeting someone else with its PSD Selection.
Personally i would prefer Grigg over Collins as well. Our players for years have been too slight and easy to bump off the ball and Collins was the clear example of one of these players. Sure he had a touch of class but it was rarely displayed. He was injury prone and far to unaccountable to be playing in midfield. His best position was as a forward flanker but his defensive pressure was still poor and one day i would like to envisage Troy Taylor playing this role and being much more dangerous in the position. After 4 years he was still a fringe 22 player and one that i thought was dispensable. For me the worst case scenario is that Grigg becomes a fringe 22 (but i do believe he has a role in our best 22) player in which case the trade is a nill all draw.
I liked andy and though he busted his bum for the club but we need to get bigger and stronger in a very literal sense and i believe this trade will help with this process. So hello again to all anyone feel free to tell me how much they disagree i look forward to some good debate on these matters and the future of the RFC.
Morgan.
Great post Mr Freeman.
Welcome btw.
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Swapped one unproven player for another.
No it isn't, jury out.
Grigg's recent form suggests currently he is a better player.
-
Take the emotion out of it people.
Now that just ain't going to happen Mr Magic. :nope
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Swapped one unproven player for another.
No it isn't, jury out.
Grigg's recent form suggests currently he is a better player.
no it doesnt, you cannot possibly say one is better than the other at this stage judging by who played better in the last 8 games of the season. Long bow to draw
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After what they did to us over the Matheson deal we should have let Grigg Slip through to the PSD.
We need to stay focussed on that and not on petty vendettas.
..................... on hear Daniel you recognise that more than most.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
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Magic is right emotion has now been taken out of it and I believe it's a fair deal. Houli is another story.
My brother a Carlton member if 10 yrs and who goes to most games rates him highly. He said he got us over the line against the eagles late this year.
The only issue is we should play hardball with all teams especially when we have the upperhand like in this case.
Im not sure if anyone has picked up that both houli and grigg are left footers.
Clarkson made a big effort to get as many left sides players into the club as he could.. Maybe dimma is doing the same.
Could provide a clue as to who our pick 6 will be.
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Grigg a Tiger, Collins a Blue
Emma Quayle, Jon Pierik
October 10, 2010
YOUNG Richmond forward Andrew Collins yesterday agreed to a three-year contract with Carlton, enabling uncontracted Carlton midfielder Shaun Grigg to make his way to Punt Road.
The Blues will turn their attention to finding new homes for Andrew Walker and Sam Jacobs, but have expressed only minor interest in Jack Anthony, the Collingwood player who was considered some chance to feature in a three-club deal between the Blues, Magpies and Fremantle late last week.
Richmond and Carlton yesterday completed their straight swap of Grigg and Collins, who were drafted at the top and bottom ends of the 2006 draft, Grigg a priority selection at pick 19 for the Blues and Collins the No. 73 pick who broke through to play 15 games this year.
After his name was raised earlier this week, Collins took a look around the Blues' headquarters and spoke with coach Brett Ratten on Friday.
The 21-year-old's manager, Anthony McConville, said that while Collins was surprised that his name came up, his meeting with Ratten had assured him of his place in his new club's plans. Collins is a nephew of 1979 Carlton premiership player Peter Francis.
''It's been agreed to today. Andy will go to Carlton and he's happy about it. It was obviously unexpected - he wasn't expecting to go anywhere - but Carlton made a good pitch for him,'' said McConville.
''He met with Brett Ratten and came away extremely impressed with what they had to say. Basically from there we nutted out a deal for him and now it's all agreed to.''
Richmond's general manager of football, Craig Cameron, said Grigg's ''inside'' abilities would help release the Tigers' classy ball-movers, such as Trent Cotchin, Dustin Martin and Brett Deledio. ''Andrew is a quality, young player, but at the end of the day you have to give up something decent to get something decent, and that's what happened with this trade,'' Cameron said.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/grigg-a-tiger-collins-a-blue-20101009-16d50.html
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Gee given that about releasing our classier mids I hope he is better than the last person we drafted to fill this role, ie Thompson
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would think that Griigg has plenty of upside
Collins not.
Remember Collins struggled in the first month this year.
His defensive side of his game isnt great either.
We win out of this deal.
Spoke to one of Griggs ex coaches, Thinks big win for us
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Take the emotion out of it people.
Have upgraded the player and not given up any picks.
Well done Tigers. :)
correct :thumbsup
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Gee given that about releasing our classier mids I hope he is better than the last person we drafted to fill this role, ie Thompson
i think so Chuck. My brother is a mad Blues fan and he is very annoyed they got rid of Grigg. The difference here is Thomposon had showed nothing at Port before we drafted him. Choco has a good eye for talent and it was no surprise he was more than happy to let Thompson go. Grigg though has been a main contributor in some games won at the tail end of this year.
I have been banging on about our skinny mid/flanker types and in the light of the day when you sit down and have a look at it we have made a good decision. Being a left footer helps as you can never have enough of them.
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I really hope we made the right decision but I am not at all sure. This could be either the worst decision we have made or a prudent one. Only time will tell.
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i think so Chuck. My brother is a mad Blues fan and he is very annoyed they got rid of Grigg. The difference here is Thomposon had showed nothing at Port before we drafted him. Choco has a good eye for talent and it was no surprise he was more than happy to let Thompson go.
You need to stop telling lies one day
Thomson turned down a contract from Port to be traded to us, so they wanted to keep him
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Come on people take a chile pill.
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i think so Chuck. My brother is a mad Blues fan and he is very annoyed they got rid of Grigg. The difference here is Thomposon had showed nothing at Port before we drafted him. Choco has a good eye for talent and it was no surprise he was more than happy to let Thompson go.
You need to stop telling lies one day
Thomson turned down a contract from Port to be traded to us, so they wanted to keep him
Either way he is a dud. End of story....
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I'm not sure what experience you base "real world" for describing fairness in negotiating, "win win" always seemed a bit idealistic to me, I'd be interested to hear more.
In the business world most transactions are a win/win or pretty damn close.
Sure everyone wants to get the best deal they can, but it normally ends up with every one content. Sometimes one side will have an advantage for one reason or another, sometimes they press that advantage to the fullest sometimes they dont.
If someone tries to continually screw you over, you just don't deal with them.
Why did people keep dealing with Kerry Packer after he bought Channel 9 for a dollar?
I just struggle with the view that the commercial world is inherently "fair".
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Am watching Collingwood year after year screwing teams over, yet they still get dealt with every year. The view that you don't pee off a team to preserve future relationships is rubbish.
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Im with Jezza. Carlton punk everyone so do the Skunks, so do Essendon. I am still waiting for some square ups with Sydney and Collingwood on trades actually. Sydney boned us a few times, one day I hope we shatter one of their big trades, steal one of their good players while they are trying to build again and enjoy their contsernation. Personally I don't care if we ever square up with Collingwood because I just don't want to trade with them ever, I don't rate their players and I hate acknowledging them in any way whatsoever.
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Well IMO, we have made a bad move, while I wanted Grigg, Collins helped Jack in the forward line... who now, please dont just throw names up, who has proven themselves a bit like Collins did to step up and kick 2-3 goals.
Look its a done deal so thats that but now our forward line is down in staff our backline willl be down with Will leaving and we have recruited one midfielder so far with Houli on the way.
Never mind they obviously know waht they are doing.
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King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.
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this thread should probably be closed now. everyone has had there say and nothing can change the outcome. so i reckon close thread so we can all get on with discussing other issues.
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Well IMO, we have made a bad move, while I wanted Grigg, Collins helped Jack in the forward line... who now, please dont just throw names up, who has proven themselves a bit like Collins did to step up and kick 2-3 goals.
Look its a done deal so thats that but now our forward line is down in staff our backline willl be down with Will leaving and we have recruited one midfielder so far with Houli on the way.
Never mind they obviously know waht they are doing.
I don't think Collins proved himself to be a 2-3 goal a game forward. He, like many others on the list, had a purple patch during our winning streak in the middle of the season but beyond that i feel he showed a lot less than last year. Too many fans i believe have romanticised Collins' performance against Sydney because it was one of our best wins in years but the fact is that there are still many 20-23 year old players on this list yet to show they can be a part of a finals bound 22 (White, Rance, Graham, Nahas, Hislop, Farmer) and Collins was one of these. Edwards took that step this year, but most of these players i dare soay wont. Remember this is the time we have to ruthless in terms of developing our list not the time to be convincing ourselves our list is better than it is.
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King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.
Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.
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King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.
Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.
NO.. Kingy is awsome and is getting better with every game unlike most players ... he is a hard worker and will be good for us in teh long run :thumbsup
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Well IMO, we have made a bad move, while I wanted Grigg, Collins helped Jack in the forward line... who now, please dont just throw names up, who has proven themselves a bit like Collins did to step up and kick 2-3 goals.
Look its a done deal so thats that but now our forward line is down in staff our backline willl be down with Will leaving and we have recruited one midfielder so far with Houli on the way.
Never mind they obviously know waht they are doing.
I don't think Collins proved himself to be a 2-3 goal a game forward. He, like many others on the list, had a purple patch during our winning streak in the middle of the season but beyond that i feel he showed a lot less than last year. Too many fans i believe have romanticised Collins' performance against Sydney because it was one of our best wins in years but the fact is that there are still many 20-23 year old players on this list yet to show they can be a part of a finals bound 22 (White, Rance, Graham, Nahas, Hislop, Farmer) and Collins was one of these. Edwards took that step this year, but most of these players i dare soay wont. Remember this is the time we have to ruthless in terms of developing our list not the time to be convincing ourselves our list is better than it is.
Was it a purple patch or is he actually starting to perform after all the years of development that we have put into him?? I really don't care about his performance against Sydney, but was he or is he on the way up....only time will tell I suppose. Being ruthless is great at trade week but being stupid is another thing... Roden :-\
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this thread should probably be closed now. everyone has had there say and nothing can change the outcome. so i reckon close thread so we can all get on with discussing other issues.
Or at least change the name.
Interesting thing. Now we have grigg we have three of the 2008 rising star nominations on our list. Get houli we have 4.
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King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.
Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.
NO.. Kingy is awsome and is getting better with every game unlike most players ... he is a hard worker and will be good for us in teh long run :thumbsup
Awsome... really... all Australian... awsome... cant agree. He is an average player we couldnt even trade if we wanted to. Yeah great he is tough and one of the worst kicks in the team...please, King IMO is not the way forward.
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King was all over Collins playing the small forward in the second half of the year.
Doesnt really matter IMO Chuck, why did we spend so many years developing Collins to then trade him..... they should have traded King.
I'm not sure we'd have attracted any interest in King but the point about developing Collins is absolutely spot on.
We need to get the "developing our own" right first - the foreign legion mentality has not worked at this club for 10 years and in fact has sent us backwards.
Baby steps, get the development program with our draftees first, then top up with other clubs talent.
Cannot believe the people don't see the learning from our recent track record.
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" Yeah great he is tough and one of the worst kicks in the team...please, King IMO is not the way forward.
Im sorry but did you see the goals he was kicking in the second half of the season? Even the comintators were saying this when we played Port, that he can kick a goal from 50 meters.. i have to disagree with you on this one he DOSE NOT have the worst kick and has. In fact a good one now thanks to our Foward coachs and Dimma.
He controls his Passion and Anger into his preformance rather than players (Didak) :P
He will defaintly be with us foward wether you like it or not.
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Jakes field kicking and kicking for goal over the last month or so of the season was fantastic. Think it could well be a confidence thing for him, also probably helping him being in the forward line knowing that not every kicking mistake will cost us dearly. Still will have to play like he did for the last month to consolidate his place on the list come 2012 (Unless he signed on for another two years this year???)
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" Yeah great he is tough and one of the worst kicks in the team...please, King IMO is not the way forward.
Im sorry but did you see the goals he was kicking in the second half of the season? Even the comintators were saying this when we played Port, that he can kick a goal from 50 meters.. i have to disagree with you on this one he DOSE NOT have the worst kick and has. In fact a good one now thanks to our Foward coachs and Dimma.
He controls his Passion and Anger into his preformance rather than players (Didak) :P
He will defaintly be with us foward wether you like it or not.
Wether I like it or not, exactly, if he is in our team I will support him, but really, remember his kicks out of the backline, how many times did he either turn it over or kick it out on the full..I backed King in the year before this when EVERYONE including commentators were sying to delist him or trade him. IMHO he is not the way forward and I think you will see him playing for Coburg al lot, barring injury, in his last last next year... my opinion only though. :thumbsup
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The other thing to consider as mentioned on SEN is Collins was offered a 3-year contract by Carlton. That along with his family connections to Carlton (nephew of Peter Francis) would've made his decision to agree to be traded easier. No guarantee what would've happened end of 2011 had he remained at Richmond. We need to find better players than Collo and Kingy as our small and midsize forwards going forward.
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My issue with the trade isn't that we traded out Collo who is the type of player who can easily be replaced and bettered via the draft. It's that we've chased a player from another club who has kicking frailties which is something in modern footy you can't hide. Swapping a skinny player with clean skills for a good-size player with dodgy (foot)skills comes across to me as a sidways trade :-\.
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The other thing to consider as mentioned on SEN is Collins was offered a 3-year contract by Carlton. That along with his family connections to Carlton (nephew of Peter Francis) would've made his decision to agree to be traded easier. No guarantee what would've happened end of 2011 had he remained at Richmond. We need to find better players than Collo and Kingy as our small and midsize forwards going forward.
Agree OE, but we do need to find them first.
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King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert. :thumbsup
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King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert. :thumbsup
Spot on :thumbsup
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King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert. :thumbsup
Needs to back it up mate and he didnt do that to any great extent this year IMO, had a couple of good games as did Collins but Collins is 22..
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My issue with the trade isn't that we traded out Collo who is the type of player who can easily be replaced and bettered via the draft. It's that we've chased a player from another club who has kicking frailties which is something in modern footy you can't hide. Swapping a skinny player with clean skills for a good-size player with dodgy (foot)skills comes across to me as a sidways trade :-\.
Good point mightytiges but i believe there is more chance that Grigg, playing with confidence in a system he understands, can improve his footskills than there is Andy putting on 8 kg and developing some defensive pressure. Maybe me just trying to be optimistic but the offseason is the time for that :thumbsup
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The other thing to consider as mentioned on SEN is Collins was offered a 3-year contract by Carlton. That along with his family connections to Carlton (nephew of Peter Francis) would've made his decision to agree to be traded easier. No guarantee what would've happened end of 2011 had he remained at Richmond. We need to find better players than Collo and Kingy as our small and midsize forwards going forward.
Agree OE, but we do need to find them first.
True. Taylor is one we will hope comes on.
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My issue with the trade isn't that we traded out Collo who is the type of player who can easily be replaced and bettered via the draft. It's that we've chased a player from another club who has kicking frailties which is something in modern footy you can't hide. Swapping a skinny player with clean skills for a good-size player with dodgy (foot)skills comes across to me as a sidways trade :-\.
Good point mightytiges but i believe there is more chance that Grigg, playing with confidence in a system he understands, can improve his footskills than there is Andy putting on 8 kg and developing some defensive pressure. Maybe me just trying to be optimistic but the offseason is the time for that :thumbsup
If it's due in part to poor-ish decision making then yes it's something a good coach with a good structured team could "fix". However if it's a technical skill flaw then it become something difficult to fix in an adult footballer other than perhaps a 5% improvement with lots of practice IMO.
ps. Welcome aboard OER by the way.
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Not like Collins had great decision making abilities either, although the number of times he got run down from behind seemed to reduce as the year went on.
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Not like Collins had great decision making abilities either, although the number of times he got run down from behind seemed to reduce as the year went on.
Like I said I don't have issues with Collo being traded unlike some Tiger supporters who are carrying on (especially on BF). To me this is a sideways trade. Swapping one player with a flaw (too slight) for another player with different flaw (dodgy footskills) ..... meh! The only positive is it didn't cost us a pick.
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King completely reinvented himself in the second half of the year.
Had twice the season that Collins did.
His field kicking and discipline improved out of sight. Go and watch the replay of our last game against PA, and note how influential he was in in the last quarter. His delivery was, without exaggeration, impeccable.
He's also fast and tough as poo. Proved to be a real handful up forward.
I'd have him in my team over Collo any day.
Im a proud Kingy convert. :thumbsup
Needs to back it up mate and he didnt do that to any great extent this year IMO, had a couple of good games as did Collins but Collins is 22..
agreed.
but all players, always need to back up strong performances.
Doesn't mean it's not encouraging or cause for enthusiasm.
I had Kingy marked for the axe. not anymore...
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Like I said I don't have issues with Collo being traded unlike some Tiger supporters who are carrying on (especially on BF). To me this is a sideways trade. Swapping one player with a flaw (too slight) for another player with different flaw (dodgy footskills) ..... meh! The only positive is it didn't cost us a pick.
No problem with Collins for Grigg. The only negative is we didn't get another pick or an upgrade given the respective contractual situations.
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No problem with Collins for Grigg. The only negative is we didn't get another pick or an upgrade given the respective contractual situations.
We obviously couldn't get Grigg and Houli in the PSD so I guess the Grigg trade was by far the more realistic option. Essendon is acting the desperate rabble they are at the minute with their laughable demands for Houli.
ps. Not holding my breath but if Jacobs fell into our lap in the PSD then we'd screw over the Blues anyhow lol.
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there is no debate
grigg is now a tiger
collins isnt
end of story
suck it up
ps at least we upgraded far more upside in grigg
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Watch Grigg to learn off Shane Tuck and mould into a player to fill Shane's role after he finishes up which unfortunatly is within probably 3 seasons max you would think.
Collins can be replaced through mid range draft selections where as Shane Tucks role is lot difficult and I think Grigg will slot in perfectly.
Good trade in my opinion and RFC won out but after hearing Grigg turned down a Carlton contract and wanted to come to Richmond for the exact same $ it hurts that we couldn't have had a big win instead of a small win. Sad to see a Tiger favourite in a Carlton jumper.
RFC Faithful is ruthless I hope they allow Griff to warm into it and don't over rate Collins' omission from the squad.
Grigg will definitely add more to the squad than Collins.
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Hardwick is replacing under-developed players who are far behind in development with more developed bodies to help bridge the gap with other clubs, caused by the terrible mistakes of the Richmond board & previous coaching staff under the Casey, March & Wallace era.
Hardwick knows exactly what he is doing & what is required at Tigerland to build a competitive side. Something Wallace had no idea how to go about, to get ahead of his past mistakes. Instead prolonged our under-develeopment & kept us behind other clubs who had maturing players the same age.
Has nothing to do with replacing players like Tuck :lol
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Grigg is going to crack 50 games in 2011, will have 5 pre-seasons under his belt and is a good size. He should be ready to be a regular and important contributor to our side.
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I'm with mightytiges, just feels like a sideways trade
Always liked Collo, didn't think he'd bail on us, and thought Grigg was a prick so i'm a little flat,
Oh well he's our prick now
GRIGGA THA WIGGA
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Ok, Jacobs has gone to the crows so there goes my theory that we gave a bit more up for Grigg to keep our options open for the psd, namely Jacobs which. Does anyone know of any decent names who are out of contract?
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Collo on Trade Week radio.
* First knew about the trade on Thursday.
* Initially shocked and disappointed but after a afternoon of thinking about it he's looking forward to the opportunity to play more through the midfield rather than being stuck too much up forward.
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Has nothing to do with replacing players like Tuck :lol
Wrong. Its called planning for the future.
Pretty straight forward.
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Grigg ready to earn stripes
New Richmond recruit Shaun Grigg says the Club’s long-term vision was the key factor that enticed him to become a Tiger.
Grigg nominated Richmond as his club of choice following a meeting with coach Damien Hardwick.
The Tigers completed a trade for Grigg with Carlton last Saturday, agreeing to a straight swap for Andrew Collins.
“I was mentored as a young player by Nick Stevens, who played at Port Adelaide with Damien,” Grigg said.
“After meeting with ‘Dimma’, it was pretty clear-cut for me. From the outside, it looked like the players really play for him, and I’m a big believer in that.
“It was clear what vision the Club is setting. I could see it happening, and I think the future is good.
“It was a pretty tough week. I had to make a few hard decisions, but I’m rapt to be a Tiger.”
Grigg, who was selected at pick 19 in the 2006 National Draft, has played 43 games and kicked 10 goals since making his AFL debut in 2007.
He started his career as a half-back, was then given the role of a run-with player, before moving into the midfield.
The 22-year-old averaged 22 possessions in his eight league games for the 2010 season, including a career-high 29 disposals against West Coast at Subiaco in Round 17.
Grigg was holidaying overseas during the trade process, but has already been welcomed to Punt Road by his new team-mates and coaches.
“A few of the boys have contacted me . . . It’s nice to be welcomed into a new club,” he said.
“I’m really looking forward to winning the boys over on the training track, by working hard and gaining their respect.”
http://www.richmondfc.com.au/tabid/6301/default.aspx?newsid=104001
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Saying all the right things as you would expect... I'm kind of worried how much positive press we seem to be getting everyone is saying how we are going places well we might be but there sure is a long way to go still. Still good to here the boys are trying to make him comfortable welcome to the club Shaun hopefully everyone gets behind you and you prove to be a valuable member of the team. :thumbsup
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I'm kind of worried how much positive press we seem to be getting everyone is saying how we are going places ...
Why? They've never said it before so this time there might be something in it. :thumbsup
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Has nothing to do with replacing players like Tuck :lol
Wrong. Its called planning for the future.
Pretty straight forward.
and you talk to the coaching staff hahahaah
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Grigg wins - good looking fella ;D
(http://sphotos.ak.stuff-ash2/hs076.ash2/37158_448268388275_298686323275_5189280_6943041_n.jpg)
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I wouldn't have a clue how Grigg plays, but I do know when Carlton supporters are cut, and they were at my work today :thumbsup
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calm down FNM your old enough to be his Den Mum :lol
oh was talking to a Carlton supporter who is right in with the club & she is cut also ;D
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http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/70827/nab-afl-rising-star-shaun-grigg
Some Footage of Grigg from his rising star nomination from 08!
You guys make up your mind who will be more valuable to us going forward!
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calm down FNM your old enough to be his Den Mum :lol
Grandma more like it lol
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calm down FNM your old enough to be his Den Mum :lol
Grandma more like it lol
;D
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calm down FNM your old enough to be his Den Mum :lol
Grandma more like it lol
;D
Not giving up till I stop breathing or lose my eye sight lol
Lookie lookie, no @#$#
Unlike some I know ;)
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http://bigpondvideo.com/AFL/70827/nab-afl-rising-star-shaun-grigg
Some Footage of Grigg from his rising star nomination from 08!
You guys make up your mind who will be more valuable to us going forward!
Gotta say, i've not seen Andy play a game like that one.
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I'm kind of worried how much positive press we seem to be getting everyone is saying how we are going places ...
Why? They've never said it before so this time there might be something in it. :thumbsup
Very true guess ive just become so acclimatised to Richmond bashing in the press i don't know how to react when positive comments start coming our way.
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new facilities looking good IMHO. Very striking!
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Spot which club went for the cheap dodgy photoshop option :wallywink
(http://mm.afl.com.au/portals/0/images_richmond/Player_Profiles/grigg profile 246.jpg) (http://mm.afl.com.au/portals/0/carlton_images/2010 Player Profiles/andrew_collins_246.jpg)
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They could of at least photoshopped a highschool photo of Collins head onto the body rather than a primary school one.... He hasn't even reached puberty in this one...
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...but look at the size of his arms.
Gee, and I thought he was a skinny runt. :whistle
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...but look at the size of his arms.
Gee, and I thought he was a skinny runt. :whistle
LOL the Cheats fans might get a shock when he runs out for the first time
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unless they pump him with roids :rollin
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What, hemorrhoids?
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What, hemorrhoids?
:thumbsup
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What, hemorrhoids?
:thumbsup
Isn't that Higgins ???
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Grigg is a very very good player.
The loss of Collins has down played the coup here. Grigg can seriously play.
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Good lord!
Carltank fans are going a bit overboard me thinks!
I can see a couple of comparisons to J Hird with Collins, he is still a skinny kid yet shows plenty of courage. Is the old 6'2 like Mr Hird, once he fills out he could really be a versatile player for the Navy Blues, can play on ball and also as a target up forward. I saw him play 2 yrs ago early and thought that he read the play very very well....all the same qualities as Mr Hird, lets hope he can get somewhere near as good as him....
The other great thing about the swap, is that Grigg has filled out and really is at his physical peak now, he will only get slower from here on in, Collins on the other hand still hasnt reached his physical peak yet has played probably as many good games as Grigg. I really think we won out of this deal, probably not this year but in the years to come....
Come on Blues
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769231
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Good lord!
Carltank fans are going a bit overboard me thinks!
I can see a couple of comparisons to J Hird with Collins, he is still a skinny kid yet shows plenty of courage. Is the old 6'2 like Mr Hird, once he fills out he could really be a versatile player for the Navy Blues, can play on ball and also as a target up forward. I saw him play 2 yrs ago early and thought that he read the play very very well....all the same qualities as Mr Hird, lets hope he can get somewhere near as good as him....
The other great thing about the swap, is that Grigg has filled out and really is at his physical peak now, he will only get slower from here on in, Collins on the other hand still hasnt reached his physical peak yet has played probably as many good games as Grigg. I really think we won out of this deal, probably not this year but in the years to come....
Come on Blues
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769231
He is no hird but that last bit dose strike up a problem... has Grigg reached his peak? the swap overall was ridiculous would have given pick 50 instead
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Good lord!
Carltank fans are going a bit overboard me thinks!
The other great thing about the swap, is that Grigg has filled out and really is at his physical peak now, he will only get slower from here on in, Collins on the other hand still hasnt reached his physical peak yet has played probably as many good games as Grigg. I really think we won out of this deal, probably not this year but in the years to come....
Come on Blues
Oh my...So players reach their physical peak at 22 and then its all downhill from there?? Has to be the most stupid and delusional post of the year.
I liked Collo a lot but I think Grigg has a lot of upside to him. I guess we will find out next season as to who got the better deal.
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Good lord!
Carltank fans are going a bit overboard me thinks!
I can see a couple of comparisons to J Hird with Collins, he is still a skinny kid yet shows plenty of courage. Is the old 6'2 like Mr Hird, once he fills out he could really be a versatile player for the Navy Blues, can play on ball and also as a target up forward. I saw him play 2 yrs ago early and thought that he read the play very very well....all the same qualities as Mr Hird, lets hope he can get somewhere near as good as him....
The other great thing about the swap, is that Grigg has filled out and really is at his physical peak now, he will only get slower from here on in, Collins on the other hand still hasnt reached his physical peak yet has played probably as many good games as Grigg. I really think we won out of this deal, probably not this year but in the years to come....
Come on Blues
Really James Hird?? Hird carried himself like a champion from day 1 and was playing a key position in his early years not struggling to break into a 15th place side. Not saying Collins can't play and only time will tell how we did in this deal (though i am rather confident it will turn out well) but that comparison is absurd.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=769231
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We know Hird Mark 2 is coming
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He is no hird but that last bit dose strike up a problem... has Grigg reached his peak?
Collins could be as big as Fiora in a year or two if he works at it.
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Hardwick is replacing under-developed players who are far behind in development with more developed bodies to help bridge the gap with other clubs, caused by the terrible mistakes of the Richmond board & previous coaching staff under the Casey, March & Wallace era.
Hardwick knows exactly what he is doing & what is required at Tigerland to build a competitive side. Something Wallace had no idea how to go about, to get ahead of his past mistakes. Instead prolonged our under-develeopment & kept us behind other clubs who had maturing players the same age.
Has nothing to do with replacing players like Tuck :lol
ah so that would be a quick fix then.
just in a purely physical sense which has more up side. a 190 88 kg 22 yr old or a 186 80 kg 21 yr old. i actually thought we were about development.
i reckon the debate has degenerated into griig v collins where i reckon we should be discussing the merits of having both grigg and collins.
and to the wankers out there ridiculing collins size aqnd pidgeon holing him nothing but a forward how times change and attitude your opinion is worth poo if you bag a player based solely on the club he plays for
suddenly collins is at carlton and he has no strengths or upside all that appear visible is his deficiencies. talk about bloody hypocrites.
collins said it himself one reason he left was because they pidgeon holed him as a forward when if any took the time to look they would see one of the most natural mids going around.
im dirty on this trade not because we have grigg he will be a good get but because we should have both players in our system.
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and to the wankers out there ridiculing collins size aqnd pidgeon holing him nothing but a forward how times change and attitude your opinion is worth poo if you bag a player based solely on the club he plays for
suddenly collins is at carlton and he has no strengths or upside all that appear visible is his deficiencies. talk about bloody hypocrites.
if any took the time to look they would see one of the most natural mids going around.
Get the rose coloured glasses of mate.
Collins is such a natural mid we didn't play him in the midfield this year and the club punted him for an opposition fringe player. This despite the fact that we are screaming for outside midfielders.
Andy has some skills but is skinny as a runt and an ordinary kick of the ball.
Overall his season was extremely disappointing and
he was wearing a Richmond jumper at the time.
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I have to say that the more i think about it, the more i dont like losing Collins.
Got nothing to do with Grigg. Just thought we should have held onto Collo, especially considering Grigg wanted to come to us.
I have been re-watching my favorite quarters from this year recently. Collo features prominently in nearly all of them.
Whether this was because he is a downhill skier, or one of our sparks, is another debate. But he looked classy and kicked some great goals.
Still happy we got Grigg on board.
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He is no hird but that last bit dose strike up a problem... has Grigg reached his peak?
Collins could be as big as Fiora in a year or two if he works at it.
LOL excellent!
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I'm feeling sorry for Grigg already. Despite so many people trying to convince themselves and anyone else out there that they will give Grigg a chance and plenty of time, I can see the poor fellow copping all the anger from losing Collins that should be directed at the recruiters if any one. I pray :pray that Grigg jumps out of the box early and Collins has a poor 2011 but, given a simmering discontent shown here, I would suggest the bloke is already feeling pressure to perform to justify the trade.
I can definitely see why the club made the deal and why Collins was considered a non-essential player. I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past. I hope we give him a chance and forget who he was traded for but just remember why we wanted Grigg in the first place...
It's about the future now I say.
Stripes
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I'm feeling sorry for Grigg already. Despite so many people trying to convince themselves and anyone else out there that they will give Grigg a chance and plenty of time, I can see the poor fellow copping all the anger from losing Collins that should be directed at the recruiters if any one. I pray :pray that Grigg jumps out of the box early and Collins has a poor 2011 but, given a simmering discontent shown here, I would suggest the bloke is already feeling pressure to perform to justify the trade.
I can definitely see why the club made the deal and why Collins was considered a non-essential player. I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past. I hope we give him a chance and forget who he was traded for but just remember why we wanted Grigg in the first place...
It's about the future now I say.
Stripes
well said
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All he needs to do is have a good game when we smash Carlton in round 1, while Collins has a shocker.
He's not going to be a whipping boy for me, he was only swapped for Collins, this isn't a pick 19/McMahon scenario.
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All he needs to do is have a good game when we smash Carlton in round 1, while Collins has a shocker.
He's not going to be a whipping boy for me, he was only swapped for Collins, this isn't a pick 19/McMahon scenario.
Completely agree collins will never be the player say Callan Ward will be. We gave up a trully expendable fringe 22 player for someone whose prototype (tall, big bodied, quick utility type) is essential in today's game.
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If we played him foward would that take pressure off Jr8? if so how much?
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If we played him foward would that take pressure off Jr8? if so how much?
If he plays forward then something will have gone awry. We have recruited him for the midfield.
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I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past.
Let's just hope he's a little mentally tougher than Richie or McMahon for that matter.
Otherwise he can bugger off too.
Footy's a tough game. You cop criticism and praise.
Enough softies.
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If we played him foward would that take pressure off Jr8? if so how much?
If he plays forward then something will have gone awry. We have recruited him for the midfield.
I know but .. from videos i have seen he looks liek a fair good goal kicker .. maby an attacking mid?
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If we played him foward would that take pressure off Jr8? if so how much?
If he plays forward then something will have gone awry. We have recruited him for the midfield.
I know but .. from videos i have seen he looks liek a fair good goal kicker .. maby an attacking mid?
That would be good - we could do with a goal kicking mid to go with Mitch playing higher up the ground.
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I'm feeling sorry for Grigg already. Despite so many people trying to convince themselves and anyone else out there that they will give Grigg a chance and plenty of time, I can see the poor fellow copping all the anger from losing Collins that should be directed at the recruiters if any one. I pray :pray that Grigg jumps out of the box early and Collins has a poor 2011 but, given a simmering discontent shown here, I would suggest the bloke is already feeling pressure to perform to justify the trade.
I can definitely see why the club made the deal and why Collins was considered a non-essential player. I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past. I hope we give him a chance and forget who he was traded for but just remember why we wanted Grigg in the first place...
It's about the future now I say.
I see the trade as a bit 'meh' and a sideways move as I said on the day but you're right Stripes it's not Grigg's fault that Collins went the other way and in any case it's not as though we gave up the next Judd for Grigg. I'd rather trade an expendable player as we've done whose type can be easily replaced than give up a decent draft pick.
If both play round 1, the media however will play on it for all its worth afterwards depending on who wins :sleep.
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I'm feeling sorry for Grigg already. Despite so many people trying to convince themselves and anyone else out there that they will give Grigg a chance and plenty of time, I can see the poor fellow copping all the anger from losing Collins that should be directed at the recruiters if any one. I pray :pray that Grigg jumps out of the box early and Collins has a poor 2011 but, given a simmering discontent shown here, I would suggest the bloke is already feeling pressure to perform to justify the trade.
I can definitely see why the club made the deal and why Collins was considered a non-essential player. I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past. I hope we give him a chance and forget who he was traded for but just remember why we wanted Grigg in the first place...
It's about the future now I say.
I agree. The media love it when they even get a hint of the Tigers supporters possibly turning on one of their own. ::) If we start to get into Griggs and the papers get on to it ?(Caro I'm talking to you here as well! :banghead) then can you imagine all the Carlton fist pumping... :chuck
I see the trade as a bit 'meh' and a sideways move as I said on the day but you're right Stripes it's not Grigg's fault that Collins went the other way and in any case it's not as though we gave up the next Judd for Grigg. I'd rather trade an expendable player as we've done whose type can be easily replaced than give up a decent draft pick.
If both play round 1, the media however will play on it for all its worth afterwards depending on who wins :sleep.
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I hope Grigg doesn't get weighed down by supporter expectation that is blown up further by the media like Tambling did in the past.
Let's just hope he's a little mentally tougher than Richie or McMahon for that matter.
Otherwise he can bugger off too.
Footy's a tough game. You cop criticism and praise.
Enough softies.
I agree that footy is a tough game MM but besides the two you've mentioned none of our other young players have had to endure the supporter expectations or speculation such as those two. Imagine if we got Jack ina trade such as this in 2009, he may never have realised his potential.
All I'm saying is that Grigg is not to blame for the trade. I think we need to forget how he came to the club and remember that we want his to go well and if he doesn't 100% of the time - well don't pile on the pressure no more than you would any of our other players.
Stripes
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All I'm saying is that Grigg is not to blame for the trade.
That's very true.
The screws should be turned to the administration if Grigg's a dud and Collins goes on to be a gun.
I would hate to see that happen.
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If both play round 1, the media however will play on it for all its worth afterwards depending on who wins :sleep.
Not so sure it will be made such a big deal of MT. Both are only young bit-players at present so it might get a comment or 2 but will be quickly forgotten in the media until/unless 1 of them starts to have a serious impact over a number of weeks - then we might see the knives and snide comments appear.
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and to the wankers out there ridiculing collins size aqnd pidgeon holing him nothing but a forward how times change and attitude your opinion is worth poo if you bag a player based solely on the club he plays for
suddenly collins is at carlton and he has no strengths or upside all that appear visible is his deficiencies. talk about bloody hypocrites.
if any took the time to look they would see one of the most natural mids going around.
Get the rose coloured glasses of mate.
Collins is such a natural mid we didn't play him in the midfield this year and the club punted him for an opposition fringe player. This despite the fact that we are screaming for outside midfielders.
Andy has some skills but is skinny as a runt and an ordinary kick of the ball.
Overall his season was extremely disappointing and
he was wearing a Richmond jumper at the time.
sheesh and i thought you were on the developing your own band wagon.
get it straight andy is not a purely outside mid far from it.. he played forward because like all good mids he manages to kick goals. there was few others who could. he also played forward because of the most obvious of things his size. his body ATM wont allow him to play the role he does best. its a bit like asking a first yr vickery or 90kg vickery to hold down the ruck.
yep hes skinny but we all know that. hes a type that will take time to literally grow into his role. collins always has been a long term propisition. development and patience were the keys just like they are with all kids who have the required attributes to play at the top level. his size issues are improving and have been every yr its not as if hes plateued. he missed the first yr of footy because of op.
i know lets play vickery forward because of size issues and forget why we do it, and forget that hes actually a ruckman when he doesnt dominate the game as much as we would like..
absolutely laughing my head of you knock collins kicking what the hell do you think of griggs then. because i know whos the better kick.and i know who is a smart player.
and you must get it straight we didnt punt him carlton asked for him as a means to do the trade. i wonder what it was they saw in him to do that. they obviously think collins a better prospect than pick 46. as it happens i do to.
as i said im an advocate of grigg i have always thought him a decent player, this goes back from junior days and have said so on footy forums well before this trade ever happened.
i still maintain we should have kept collins and taken griigg another way. i will maintain this even if collins or grigg or both fails.
why because we are in rebuild and those kids with potential should be nurtured at all costs. why because we have a shedload of players who needed to be gone before collins.why because i think hes worth more long term than the pick we saved in getting rid of him. we are supposed to be growing the list.
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Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... :o, one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.
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and to the wankers out there ridiculing collins size aqnd pidgeon holing him nothing but a forward how times change and attitude your opinion is worth poo if you bag a player based solely on the club he plays for
suddenly collins is at carlton and he has no strengths or upside all that appear visible is his deficiencies. talk about bloody hypocrites.
if any took the time to look they would see one of the most natural mids going around.
Get the rose coloured glasses of mate.
Collins is such a natural mid we didn't play him in the midfield this year and the club punted him for an opposition fringe player. This despite the fact that we are screaming for outside midfielders.
Andy has some skills but is skinny as a runt and an ordinary kick of the ball.
Overall his season was extremely disappointing and
he was wearing a Richmond jumper at the time.
sheesh and i thought you were on the developing your own band wagon.
get it straight andy is not a purely outside mid far from it.. he played forward because like all good mids he manages to kick goals. there was few others who could. he also played forward because of the most obvious of things his size. his body ATM wont allow him to play the role he does best. its a bit like asking a first yr vickery or 90kg vickery to hold down the ruck.
yep hes skinny but we all know that. hes a type that will take time to literally grow into his role. collins always has been a long term propisition. development and patience were the keys just like they are with all kids who have the required attributes to play at the top level. his size issues are improving and have been every yr its not as if hes plateued. he missed the first yr of footy because of op.
i know lets play vickery forward because of size issues and forget why we do it, and forget that hes actually a ruckman when he doesnt dominate the game as much as we would like..
absolutely laughing my head of you knock collins kicking what the hell do you think of griggs then. because i know whos the better kick.and i know who is a smart player.
and you must get it straight we didnt punt him carlton asked for him as a means to do the trade. i wonder what it was they saw in him to do that. they obviously think collins a better prospect than pick 46. as it happens i do to.
as i said im an advocate of grigg i have always thought him a decent player, this goes back from junior days and have said so on footy forums well before this trade ever happened.
i still maintain we should have kept collins and taken griigg another way. i will maintain this even if collins or grigg or both fails.
why because we are in rebuild and those kids with potential should be nurtured at all costs. why because we have a shedload of players who needed to be gone before collins.why because i think hes worth more long term than the pick we saved in getting rid of him. we are supposed to be growing the list.
Claws on the cash here
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Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... :o, one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.
Edwards is bigger than Collins and is a better player than Collins. At least Edwards has put on some size...Collo looks like a 12 year old.
Eddy is gonna be a beauty :thumbsup
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Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... :o, one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.
Edwards is bigger than Collins and is a better player than Collins. At least Edwards has put on some size...Collo looks like a 12 year old.
Eddy is gonna be a beauty :thumbsup
Collins is 4cm taller and about the same weight.
But I would still keep Edwards before Collins.
:thumbsup
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Yep, Edwards has a better tank, is a better kick, a better mark, has better hands, more smarts, more speed and can play more positions than Collo.
GC were keen on Grigg and would have taken him before us in the PSD.
The Blues wanted our 2nd rounder for him - way too high, and they wouldn't take any other picks.
They asked for Connors, Morton or Collins, we tried to offload Thursfield, no dice.
We push Grigg into the National Draft and we end up spending a pick we've already decided is too high for him because he wont be available at 46.
Grigg, Connors and Morton rated more valuable to the side than Collo, Collo agrees to go, done deal.
I can't see any other way around it without canning the trade altogether.
Shame cause he was a good prospect, but that's footy.
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Jury is really out on this one for mine.... I really didnt want to swap Collins or lose him for that matter after spending somany years developing him. Time will tell I guess, in all honesty I would have traded Edwards.... :o, one good year from him nad his size hasn't convinced me that he will be any better than Collins over time....... but we will see won't we.
Edwards is a much better footballer than Collins.
His good year was last year, which says to me he is tracking along nicely.
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Not so sure it will be made such a big deal of MT. Both are only young bit-players at present so it might get a comment or 2 but will be quickly forgotten in the media until/unless 1 of them starts to have a serious impact over a number of weeks - then we might see the knives and snide comments appear.
You'll be right with most journos smokey not making a big deal about it after just one game but I'm sure the Richmond haters in the media who never can resist a dig like Dwayne Russell will bag us over the trade if we lose in round 1 badly for the third year in a row even if a quiet Collo just kicks a couple of cheapies in junk time while Grigg is one of the best for us. Until we start winning we're an easy target for them.
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Yep, Edwards has a better tank, is a better kick, a better mark, has better hands, more smarts, more speed and can play more positions than Collo.
GC were keen on Grigg and would have taken him before us in the PSD.
The Blues wanted our 2nd rounder for him - way too high, and they wouldn't take any other picks.
They asked for Connors, Morton or Collins, we tried to offload Thursfield, no dice.
We push Grigg into the National Draft and we end up spending a pick we've already decided is too high for him because he wont be available at 46.
Grigg, Connors and Morton rated more valuable to the side than Collo, Collo agrees to go, done deal.
I can't see any other way around it without canning the trade altogether.
Shame cause he was a good prospect, but that's footy.
you have to be kidding the only area edwards has over collins is tank and evasiveness. would take collins anyday in all other categories. as for the psd gc like all other clubs would have done would have acknowledged the players wishes and let him be. with griggs footskills im not even sure clayton would look at him.
if connors was one who was requested he should have been the one to go imo. its only my opinion but collins upside is in front of both edwards and connors though his performances atm are not and way in front of so many others on the list.
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Edwards had a good year and is well ahead of Collo as a midfielder but the question mark on him is still his size or lack of it. Will it become a liability for him and us once we become a finals side. Throw in Connors as well from our 2006 draftees and none of them were untradable if the price was right (I'm not saying Grigg was the right price - a sideways trade for mine as I've said before). In the end Carlton wanted Collo in exchange, Collo was willing to go and the trade went ahead.
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you have to be kidding
No, I'm not.
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Edwards had a good year and is well ahead of Collo as a midfielder but the question mark on him is still his size or lack of it. Will it become a liability for him and us once we become a finals side.
He's still putting on weight each year and is not far off his ideal playing weight, he only needs another 4-5kg. The size and weight issue has never been an issue for players like Brent Harvey or Daniel Kerr so not sure why it will be for Shane.
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Yep, Edwards has a better tank, is a better kick, a better mark, has better hands, more smarts, more speed and can play more positions than Collo.
GC were keen on Grigg and would have taken him before us in the PSD.
The Blues wanted our 2nd rounder for him - way too high, and they wouldn't take any other picks.
They asked for Connors, Morton or Collins, we tried to offload Thursfield, no dice.
We push Grigg into the National Draft and we end up spending a pick we've already decided is too high for him because he wont be available at 46.
Grigg, Connors and Morton rated more valuable to the side than Collo, Collo agrees to go, done deal.
I can't see any other way around it without canning the trade altogether.
Shame cause he was a good prospect, but that's footy.
Interesting post. Thanks Greg.
would take collins anyday in all other categories.
You have to be kidding.
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Andy Collins has been picked to play for the Blues tomorrow night.
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Andy Collins has been picked to play for the Blues tomorrow night.
good luck to the young man.
although I think collingwood will monster him.
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The Grigg / Collins trade ?
RFC = Duh...Winning !
;D
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Andy Collins has been picked to play for the Blues tomorrow night.
he wont get 29 touches
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(http://www.myiphonevideo.com/wp-content/uploads/mvbthumbs/img_4424_tiger-blood-is-winning.jpg)
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With Betts and Garlett as the Blues' small forwards, Collo will need to play in the middle or across half-back which isn't the role he played with us. He'll most likely only be the sub anyway.
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Collo stuffed up his first few possies but was fairly decent after that with 9 disposals in 1.5 quarters. Too early to judge though as he came on with the game decided and most of his possies came late in junk time.
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Turned it over and started the "Thornton is a dud" chant late in the 3rd
Poor Collo, i want to hug his nuts and bring him back to PRO
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Poor Collo, i want to hug his nuts and bring him back to PRO
Collins is just a player at best.....and leave the nut huggin' to Davey. The man just hasn't been himself since Schulltz did his knee
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one of Tigerlands better trades :thumbsup
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one of Tigerlands better trades :thumbsup
How come your so positive monkey?
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Grigg gets himself in the right space and aint scared in pushing forward.
Imagine him playing with the Pies, he would kill them.
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Early days but it appears to be a good trade
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one of Tigerlands better trades :thumbsup
How come your so positive monkey?
l been watching Collo & his still making basic mistakes & kicking like poo
Griggs is fitting in well
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no 'S' on Grigg, mate.
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no 'S' on Grigg, mate.
sorry teacher, l will try remember that :bow
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Collins done his shoulder. Out for a Month.
He has now done both.
We have certainly won out of this deal. No question.
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lol reading back this thread. :lol
Well done Dimma, Cameron & Hartley.
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No contest, Grigg hands down
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Grigg gets himself in the right space and aint scared in pushing forward.
Imagine him playing with the Pies, he would kill them.
Great point, he's a good player
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Grigg was good again today without being outstanding. He shows great composure and makes good decisions. Has good skills too. He's certainly added to our side. Without wanting to compare him to Collins I will say that I think we got what we were after with Grigg.
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Win for the Tigers in getting Grigg. Would be top 8 in the B&F.
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Shaun Grigg has been a massive bonus to our team this year. Averaging over 27 touches and hurting the opposition on the scoreboard by kicking goals.
Does benefit from the focus tagging to Cotchin, Martin etc but is making the most of it atm
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is a clear win for blair hartley. well done to him on this trade. i didnt rate it at the time, but time has proven him to be completely correct. credit where credit is due. :cheers
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what debate :lol
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what debate :lol
having looked at the 1st post of the thread it was about the fact that we gave carlton anything at all. we shouldnt have given the scum anything. still grigg has proven to be a good player.
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would think that Griigg has plenty of upside
Collins not.
Remember Collins struggled in the first month this year.
His defensive side of his game isnt great either.
We win out of this deal.
Spoke to one of Griggs ex coaches, Thinks big win for us
Bang go Grigga :thumbsup
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:lol I suppose no one else is gunna blow your trumpet for you........
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:lol I suppose no one else is gunna blow your trumpet for you........
Mate .i liked Grigga from day 1
You will be no 7 on my ignore list
Clown
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Probably one of the best trades we have done in every way in recent times. Has had a blinder of a year so far.
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:lol quoting yourself like that reeks of narcissism.
i am a tad disappointed i am so far down the list though.
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:lol quoting yourself like that reeks of narcissism.
i am a tad disappointed i am so far down the list though.
LMAO Al.
Luckily we can find the hundreds of bad calls he has made to offset the one he actually called right.
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law of averages says to had to happen sometime
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Been a good recruit and has lifted this year. Hope he keeps it up
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Trade our 7th rounder. Get collins back in couple years :shh
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Collins ???? forgotton footballer at Carlton ;D is he still on thier list
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i think the whole episode destroyed poor andy.
I actually feel sorry for him, getting duck shoved to that mongrel, butthole club
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what debate :lol
This thread turned into a mass debate pretty quickly
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Even a stopped clock is right twice a day !
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
Since we like quoting ourselves, here is Coach. A Grigg supporter from the start :clapping
:outtahere
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
Since we like quoting ourselves, here is Coach. A Grigg supporter from the start :clapping
:outtahere
stuffing hero aren't we.
:wallywink
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
Since we like quoting ourselves, here is Coach. A Grigg supporter from the start :clapping
:outtahere
stuffing hero aren't we.
:wallywink
Whoa, whoa. Steady on, 65'.
WAT will be smart enough to know what I'm talking about.
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Yep, Grigger supporter from the start....go Griggmiester....
Bloody Edwards... :banghead......hehe, couldn't resist it... :lol
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Snip! Stick to the footy discussion in this and the other threads ppl!
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once again '65 drags the discusson down with personal attacks :banghead
:sleep
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
Since we like quoting ourselves, here is Coach. A Grigg supporter from the start :clapping
:outtahere
And not a Houli supporter by the looks of it? :whistle
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For some reason I don't really give a poo. Maybe it's because Collins has hardly ever strung together consecutive good games in his time at Richmond? He has talent, no doubt. I don't think he's half the player some make him out to be.
Haven't seen much of Grigg. He finds the footy and is a good size, I will trust Richmond on this one.
FFS, you'd think we just traded away our first round pick for Laycock and Houli. It's bloody Collins for Grigg. :lol
Since we like quoting ourselves, here is Coach. A Grigg supporter from the start :clapping
:outtahere
And not a Houli supporter by the looks of it? :whistle
Houli was available in the draft, ol' Smokey. ;)
I love Houli. :cuddles
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;D
We all love the Bach!
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once again '65 drags the discusson down with personal attacks :banghead
:sleep
If only Jackstar was here to tell us how to ignore him.
Where is Jackstar anyway?
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once again '65 drags the discusson down with personal attacks :banghead
:sleep
If only Jackstar was here to tell us how to ignore him.
Where is Jackstar anyway?
Probably waiting for a post to reply to.....He has every one on his ignor list and is wondering why no one is posting :lol
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I will repeat again for those posters who cannot read
I have 7 on ignore
Greatest invention ever invented
Might ask WP to rename it "nuffer control"
By the way.Love Batchelor .Grigga and Houli
All left footers too
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Clearly I'm not on it then ;D either that or it's not working for you :lol
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You are on it actually
You can choose to look at individual posts
Which I just did
I won't be reading anymore
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You are on it actually
You can choose to look at individual posts
Which I just did
I won't be reading anymore
:P :P :P :P :P :P
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You are on it actually
You can choose to look at individual posts
Which I just did
I won't be reading anymore
Is it possible for you to publish a list of the ignored please Jackstar?
It would make it much easier to keep the threads running smoothly.
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Your safe
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for now.
lift your game TBR
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Your safe
:cheers
:birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday :birthday
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;)
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Who is on the list, Jack? I have a few now.
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I'm up to 7 too
Wonder if it is the same 7?
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Where will this all end??????????????????
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Where will this all end??????????????????
In tears...... :whistle
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How can we get back on track???????????
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How can we get back on track???????????
It's all up to Jackstar now, the future of this thread rests on his shoulders :help
(you may want to pass that message on as I doubt he will read it himself)
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I just want some harmony restored to this site. :clapping
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Why can't I see anyone's posts? :'(
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I have some good news for the future. Today a boy child was born into the Grigg family, he will be named Shaun.
I spoke to one of the maternity nurses and she reckons he will be a ripper, shows plenty of promise to become a solid AFL footballer.
Now, my spies tell me that the word on the street is that he will not be drafted by us, so more probably will come to tigerland via a controversial trade, one that will see much consternation and possibly some self flagellation.
It may take a year or so to find his feet, but mark my words, he will be a handy footballer us.
When the interweb is invented you can bookmark this.
Bang!
Bang oh effn bang!
if only i was 6 inches longer, or more flexible
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Love the date on the quote
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if only i was 6 inches longer, or more flexible
Is that what you think or what your better half thinks Al?
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if only i was 6 inches longer, or more flexible
Is that what you think or what your better half thinks Al?
:lol :lol
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Grigg is a very very good player.
Grigg can seriously play. Still has a lot of development to go and will be a very good player.
Always been a big fan of Grigg. Much prefer the stronger bodies than the smaller swifty players. Guys like Grigg, Morris, Houli, Batcher. All great recruits in comparisons the highly rated light guys like Bling, Fiora, Edwards etc.
Come finals time big bodies will get you over the line more often than most. Been superb has Shaun.
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if only i was 6 inches longer, or more flexible
Is that what you think or what your better half thinks Al?
both ;D
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if only i was 6 inches longer, or more flexible
Is that what you think or what your better half thinks Al?
both ;D
:rollin
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I wonder if Andy Collins is out of contract this year???
I will start a new campaign, Bring back Andy Collins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a rookie or late pick if he is delisted by the Scum. I think he would be a handy medium forward for us.
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I wonder if Andy Collins is out of contract this year???
No got 2 3 years when he went to the Blues
Sorry typo he got 3 years
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now into his second year?
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now into his second year?
Yep. The swap was at the end of 2010.
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I wonder if Andy Collins is out of contract this year???
I will start a new campaign, Bring back Andy Collins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a rookie or late pick if he is delisted by the Scum. I think he would be a handy medium forward for us.
Do Coburg need another sporadic small forward?
No thanks.
Grigg has been a steal!
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Collins is a runt
Grigg is a gypsy
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Collins has been picked this week for Carlton given their injuries and because they are playing the hapless Dees.
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I wonder if Andy Collins is out of contract this year???
I will start a new campaign, Bring back Andy Collins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a rookie or late pick if he is delisted by the Scum. I think he would be a handy medium forward for us.
You have more chance of legalising the first half of your username.... :whistle
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I wonder if Andy Collins is out of contract this year???
I will start a new campaign, Bring back Andy Collins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a rookie or late pick if he is delisted by the Scum. I think he would be a handy medium forward for us.
You have more chance of legalising the first half of your username.... :whistle
:clapping
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Collins has been picked this week for Carlton given their injuries and because they are playing the hapless Dees.
Poor Collo.
That game where he was the hero against the Swans was such a long time ago now.
Any way you put it we have had the better end of the deal in this one.
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big big andy collins fan and did not want to lose him. but without a doubt we have won out big time in that trade. remember collins didnt ask to be traded carlton asked for him instead of pick forty whatever.
my only gripe with the trade was i was really hoping we could have ended up with both.
given exactly the same circumstances again i would still think the same.
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Andy collins is atypical glass half full player at best! If he was still on our list now he would in the gun for delisting at seasons end for sure!
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Liked collo too but has his flaws and with the amount of time he's had in the system I don't know if they can be rectified and he'd likely still be 20-30 on our list.
Not taking the mickey, but classic glass half full type
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classic GHFT.
:cheers
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Andy collins is atypical glass half full player at best! If he was still on our list now he would in the gun for delisting at seasons end for sure!
yep i would agree with the second part anyway but that was not the case two yrs ago. i reckon he has more good attributes than a few on our list. for what ever reason not good enough too many flaws too small for the way he plays hes failed and 5 or so yrs in the afl system says a decion based on performance would demand he be cut.
i might like em as players but even the ones i like have to produce.
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I must say Grigg has been pretty good this year, Last year Houli showed the way and Grigg seemed disinterested, but Gee he really has stood up a lot this year and has worked his way into out top.....10??
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A question to ask yourself is should we have kept Collins over Edwards? Me, i think we did very well out of this trade
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Grigg is very good under pressure with his disposal. He did some clever work against the saints
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no debate
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there will be if WAT reads the post
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no debate but i do recall johnstar saying many times how we made a big mistake getting grigg lmao
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Collins vs Grigg this Sat night, think young ex tiger might have a point to prove.....
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He's poo lol.
We raped them in this trade.
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He'll probably have 20 and kick 3 in a 1 point loss to these bastards now
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evil cows on the moon have predicted this
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evil cows on the moon have predicted this
The evil cows were destroyed, most likely the work of Chicken in Choppers.......Cow dung flung.
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He was a scrawny calf who looked rather of woozy, no one suspected he was packin an uzi.
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he kicked for the groin, he peeed in their eye
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evil cows on the moon have predicted this
damn straight they have. :lol
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Collins has been delisted by the Blues.
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Collins has been delisted by the Blues.
Would rookie... :whistle
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Collins has been delisted by the Blues.
Lol wut
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They are going to relist him
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perhaps
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He has a year to run on his contract at Cheatland doesn't he?
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we d have to consider rookie listing him, looks to have matured , ready to explode :clapping
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Never understood what everyone saw in Collins. Kicked some opportunistic goals,for us which papered over the fact that his performances for us were for the large part very mediocre.
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Never understood what everyone saw in Collins. Kicked some opportunistic goals,for us which papered over the fact that his performances for us were for the large part very mediocre.
But what about that Sydney game, doesn't that get the blood pumping.
The great man Miller didn't even give us one memorable game and he is now revered as the best blocker and handpasser out the back to ever pull on a RFC jumper.
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Bleeds yellow and black......but unfortunately it's only a teaspoon full.
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Never understood what everyone saw in Collins. Kicked some opportunistic goals,for us which papered over the fact that his performances for us were for the large part very mediocre.
But what about that Sydney game, doesn't that get the blood pumping.
The great man Miller didn't even give us one memorable game and he is now revered as the best blocker and handpasser out the back to ever pull on a RFC jumper.
he has good goal sense and an ok crumber, sort of a lesser version of Andy Krakour. But yeh, you could go through other past players we've had and he's a comparative champion. All relative I guess.
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not up to it.
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Never understood what everyone saw in Collins. Kicked some opportunistic goals,for us which papered over the fact that his performances for us were for the large part very mediocre.
But what about that Sydney game, doesn't that get the blood pumping.
The great man Miller didn't even give us one memorable game and he is now revered as the best blocker and handpasser out the back to ever pull on a RFC jumper.
Easy there. RFC legends should be revered on this forum! :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow
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Don't want Collins back.
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Don't want Collins back.
X2
The kid has good disposal skills but he has to be in the clear with no pressure on him before he can do it. In this day and age a good team will give you zero breathing space which Andy does not like IMO.
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Don't want Collins back.
X2
The kid has good disposal skills but he has to be in the clear with no pressure on him before he can do it. In this day and age a good team will give you zero breathing space which Andy does not like IMO.
Yep agree on this. Kid is a toothpick also. Don't want another skinny flanker from the Walla$$ era after what we have been through. Carlscum's loss is Carlscum's gain. :lol :rollin :lol