Author Topic: Ben Griffiths [merged]  (Read 530736 times)

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2220 on: September 04, 2014, 08:01:42 AM »
Ignoring factual evidence also makes one look unprofessional (tackle stats)

While people are interested in such things as tackles. I recommended looking into Griff one Percenter's too. Might be pleasantly surprised

Offline lamington

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2221 on: September 04, 2014, 11:37:08 AM »
For me Griff has stood up when it counted. Taking clutch marks when the game is in the balance for me is more powerful than black and white stats can ever tell.

I'm not a fan of fox footy commentary but in the final 2 minutes of the Swans game I think the commentary from the kick in was pretty spot on. "it's kick to kick at the moment. it's  back to the school yard. and he's a school yard hero Ben Griffiths."

Benny G dropped the mark there was a good chance the Swans could've roved it and slot through a goal. On paper it was just 1 contested mark. But in the context of the game it was huge. And its not the first time he's taken clutch marks or kicked clutch goals.

For me this is the true value of Benny G and that is why we must re-sign him ASAP

Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2222 on: September 04, 2014, 11:43:41 AM »
Rank   Name   Games   Average
1   M. Thomas   13   5.92
2   R. Conca   18   5.22
3   A. Miles   12   4.33
4   D. Jackson   10   4.30
5   N. Foley   17   4.18
6   T. Cotchin   22   4.14
7   R. Petterd   16   3.94
8   S. Lloyd   8   3.50
9   S. Edwards   22   3.36
10   N. Vlastuin   19   3.11
11   B. Griffiths   15   2.8

Griff is also pretty stuffing accurate, we just need to get the ball to him more, bring him into the game a bit more.  At the moment he has been trying to win a lot of his own like a midfielder, and has been positively mugged by defenders in the last few games, which is good.  It tells us they know he is the real deal and is going have to start dealing with it, freeing up other forwards to pull the marks down.  This bloke is awesome, there isn't even a debate to be had, he is plucking marks, taking two defenders, moving round the map like a dirt bike and sending cruise missile in to advantage, what isn't to like?
Ask big tone and claw. Both want to trade him!
He is a highlight reel at the moment. A few good things a game. Then goes missing for massive chucks of the game. Not even Y&BB could disagree with that.
He has had 3 tackles in 20 quarters of footy since he has come back in. Not great however you try and spin that.
I'd trade him for any pick under 20 especially in this draft when you could pick up a gem at any pick in the first 20.
A few long kicks and a few big marks haven't changed my opinion of him yet.
Let's hope he isn't the one to let us down this week.
I'd only trade him for a top 15 pick.
I agree that he needs to get the ball more but he'll never be a high possession guy.  If he can average 15 possessions a game he will be an excellent player for us.  I guess I look at it like this. One 65m kick from him is worth more than 6 back and forth handballs. Yet those handballs give a player an inflated possession count. One game saving pack mark is worth 10+ marks that are obtained from short chip kicks in the backline. So you see, stats don't tell us the whole story.
3 tackles in 20 quarters tells me a pretty telling story.
Maybe he should take up punting in the US. That would be perfect for him. Sit on his arse for massive chunks of the game then get up and kick it a long way. And 99% of the time he doesn't have to touch anyone.  :lol perfect!!
It looks like we don't agree on this one, but I hope you are right, the RFC need it.  :gotigers
Maybe you could do me a favour bt. Find out the average tackle count of 200cm+ players in the league and compare it to Griffs.
Nick Nat- 26 tackles in his last 20 quarters. Griff must work harder when he hasn't got the footy and that's a LOT.
Anything else you need while I'm handing out favours?
I'll help you then...
Ben Griffiths average tackle count 2014: 2.9
Vickery : 2.2
Taylor Walker: 1.6
Lachie Henderson: 1.9
Jake Carlisle: 2.0
Joe Daniher: 1.3
Cloke: 1.7
Jesse White: 2.1
Aaron Black: 2.0
Drew Petrie 2.6
Schultz: 2.4
David Hale: 2.2
Kurt Tippett: 1.0

In fact the only KPPs that have a higher average tackle count in 2014 is Josh Kennedy from the eagles with 3.1, Lance Franklin with 3.2 and Jarryd Roughhead with 3.0!!!!  And none of them are that far ahead either...


SO THESE ARE THE FACTS.  YOU CANNOT SAY GRIFF DOES NOT TACKLE ENOUGH!!!!!!
On one hand you want to compare him with KPF's when it suits you then when it doesn't he is a forward/ruckman.
10 of the players you mention are KPF's, is that what Biff is?
If so and you are comparing him to KPF, how many goals has he kicked this year? I'll tell you, 11. At .7 a game.
I bet you everyone on your list has a better goal average than Biff this year. Even young Joe. But I may be wrong??  :whistle

Griff has the most tackles at Richmond
For everyone, outside MIDs

To word it another way - of every non short player, Griff average most tackles.

11th overall for 1℅ers


The Griff does tackle enough argument is almost as poor as the if Griff didn't have he ability to kick long, he would be less good.

Offline The Big Richo

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2223 on: September 04, 2014, 12:48:12 PM »
Yes but if he didn't lay tackles and apply 1%ers, and couldn't kick long, there wouldn't be much there to work with in my opinion.
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Offline Judge Roughneck

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2224 on: September 04, 2014, 12:55:01 PM »
Yes but if he didn't lay tackles and apply 1%ers, and couldn't kick long, there wouldn't be much there to work with in my opinion.

Outside of his outstanding contested marking, and considerable ruck development - he would really not be much of a prospect.


Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2225 on: September 04, 2014, 01:40:38 PM »
But he has only had 3 tackles in 20 quarters of football!

Dud.  Delist. :huh
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Offline Yeahright

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2226 on: September 04, 2014, 05:28:04 PM »
Do you get the point?

To judge on non existant hypotheticals is pretty rough on griff

Like saying if cotchin wasnt good at getting the ball he wouldnt be as good

My point is that he does nothing special with his kicking or have really good kicking, he can just get it that extra 10 meters and put it in the dangerous spot more often than others. Reckon he's progressed really well this year but needs to do more
Define good kicking...
Richo has said on a few occasions that he is the best kick in the side.
Just because he can kick an extra 10m.... Well that extra 10m clears defensive zones and creates scoring opportunities.
FFS this is one of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on this site!
We know the guy is not a champion but he has a unique set of tools that if we can develop will give the team a player that opposition sides will poot themselves in the future.

Richo says that about someone new every week. All Griff does is get it and bang it 60m and yes it's a weapon but no one has really addressed my original point. This wouldn't be an argument if people didn't argue the fact that he needs to find a way to kick more goals.

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2227 on: September 04, 2014, 05:49:26 PM »
Do you get the point?

To judge on non existant hypotheticals is pretty rough on griff

Like saying if cotchin wasnt good at getting the ball he wouldnt be as good

My point is that he does nothing special with his kicking or have really good kicking, he can just get it that extra 10 meters and put it in the dangerous spot more often than others. Reckon he's progressed really well this year but needs to do more
Define good kicking...
Richo has said on a few occasions that he is the best kick in the side.
Just because he can kick an extra 10m.... Well that extra 10m clears defensive zones and creates scoring opportunities.
FFS this is one of the poorest arguments I've ever seen on this site!
We know the guy is not a champion but he has a unique set of tools that if we can develop will give the team a player that opposition sides will poot themselves in the future.

Richo says that about someone new every week. All Griff does is get it and bang it 60m and yes it's a weapon but no one has really addressed my original point. This wouldn't be an argument if people didn't argue the fact that he needs to find a way to kick more goals.
I think people have to think a little deeper than "if he kick more goals". Last Saturday he handed a goal to Jack and them ajack kicked one directly after Richards had spilt a long range kick from Griff. So in a space of a few minutrs he helped the team directly to two goals. Does it matter how many he kicks himself if it means others are finishing off his good work?
The main thing is that when the ball is in his hands something positive happens for our team. At the moment this is happening. As I said we just need to get the ball in his hands more often. We need to honour his leads more and not be totally Jack conscious when going forward.
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Offline Yeahright

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2228 on: September 04, 2014, 05:55:54 PM »
For me his lack of goals shows me his lack of influence when playing deep, I don't think it's unfair to question when he might start having an influence deep?

Just to recap: "If footballers didn't have their best attributes they wouldn't be as good."

Stunning insight there - truly revelatory.

Okay maybe you need things spelled out for you. Take long kick off Griff and he has practically 0 impact apart from his one nice mark a game. Take long kick off Deledio he'll still hit you on the chest lace out and kick goals (granted a few less).

Offline YellowandBlackBlood

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2229 on: September 04, 2014, 06:20:20 PM »
For me his lack of goals shows me his lack of influence when playing deep, I don't think it's unfair to question when he might start having an influence deep?

Just to recap: "If footballers didn't have their best attributes they wouldn't be as good."

Stunning insight there - truly revelatory.

Okay maybe you need things spelled out for you. Take long kick off Griff and he has practically 0 impact apart from his one nice mark a game. Take long kick off Deledio he'll still hit you on the chest lace out and kick goals (granted a few less).
Do watch our games? Serious question. Griffiths is 15th in the whole league for contested marks. He doesn't take one nice mark a game. You are showing a complete lack of knowledge in this area.
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the claw

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2230 on: September 04, 2014, 07:52:48 PM »
okay what should a person expect from a  fwd /ruck . the bloke who plays second ruck is freed up for 30 40 minutes a game. the bloke who plays as your kpf for big chunks of games.
for me cm, mi 50, one stat id like to see is cm i50, tackles, 1%, h/o, goals. and disposals are all important when talking about this type of player.

it seems to me your tall defenders should be right up there in 1% ers just spoiling your direct opponent would boost this stat enormously. your inside mids should have big tackle counts, tall fwds should have high marking stats weather they be contested or hitting up into space.
just common sense.

lets see big ivan
he takes 3.3 marks a game  nothing special probably a bit low, of those 3.3 mks he averages just o.69 contested mks  a game this yr. and further more just 0.23 are marked inside 50.

ivan lays 2.84 tackles a game this yr again imo a smidge low  but combined with the blocks and bullocking work its okay.  he has 3.38 1%ers a game  but he does find the ball on ave 14.62 times a game hence he winning ball and handballing with second and third efforts at stoppages.
 hes the main ruckman and spends most time in the role and he ave 25.8 h/o a game probably a tad low as well. to finish hthis yr hes ave just 0.3 goals a game  this needs to be more imo.

when i do the same sort of exercise with griffiths vickery and hampson  all are satisfactory in some areas and poor  in others'

people talking about griffiths here the stats back up what i see.
and that is he doesnt find anywhere near enough ball. while he takes  his share of marks and his stats are okay  id say for the role we expect of him this is down a tad as well.
he doesnt take enough marks inside 50  and he certainly does not impact the scoreboard anywhere near enough. as a back up ruckman he doest win enough hit outs .

this is not criticism its reality and just pointing out what the bloke really needs to work on and improve.

Offline Owl

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2231 on: September 04, 2014, 08:34:16 PM »
And that is why claw I judge by what I see players do not just by what is written on the stats sheet.  Stats don't cover everything, just the highlights.
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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2232 on: September 04, 2014, 08:37:47 PM »
And that is why claw I judge by what I see players do not just by what is written on the stats sheet.  Stats don't cover everything, just the highlights.

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Offline Tigeritis™©®

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2233 on: September 04, 2014, 08:50:13 PM »
Trade Vickery for Higgins.

Griffs going nowhere

I like your thinking.
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Online Loui Tufga

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Re: Ben Griffiths [merged]
« Reply #2234 on: September 04, 2014, 09:01:33 PM »