This is now the Terry Wallace Hate Forum :'( ....or is there still hope!?

[HKTiger]

Nail on head stripes.

I was with the wallace and miller haters tonight and said the same thing.

He has had 3 1/2 years and we have acheived a hell of a lot in that time. Only thing, that the proof will not be in the pudding for 2 - 3 years.

You cannot turn everyone over at once and play all the kids all the time.

One thing in TW's article about riewoldt going back to coburg and getting his bearings was spot on, do people see and understand these things or are they just to blind. I think Riewoldt will now see out the year.

I said to the guys 'If we get rid of wallace, what are the options ?' as usual no real answer, so I say what is the point.

Side note: mate asked Mccrae about Rance, he was really close last week and will get his go soon. See the future people and have just a little more patience and most of all at least try and be supportive. 

CUB,

Good post.

However even ine here we have some revisionist history.

A couple of facts (take note J'ster and D'161).  Terry came to a club that had lost $2 million and was between $3 million and $ 4 million in debt when he arrived.  The difference in debt views stems from which accounting view you use to look at the debt.  When Terry was announced as the coach (and no I can't be bothered finding the press clipping) he was announced as:
a) A coach with a plan
b) That he would get 5 years to deliver on his plan and vision, and
c) That he would help sell the club.

Given the finances at the time, the attempted Board putsch/coup, I can bet that he was asked/told/instructed that he had to show hope in year 1 (2005) so that memberships and finances could be rebuilt.  Point C may well have been the most important point in 2005.

I reckon TW was as gutsy as can be that year in cutting as deep as he did and trusting lots to a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds.  (And D'161 your rubbishing of the Graham drafting shows total ignorance of the facts presented above.)

In 2005 we broke even.  In 2006 and 2007 we finally made healthy profits.  Only in 2007 did TW get the support staff he needed/wanted.  A development coach (Craig McRae).  David King full time.

Note:  The clubs many compare us to, Collingwood and Hawthorn, have not had these finacial constraints.

All in all I believe TW has navigated the 3.5 years as well as possible.  I have never heard him bitch about lack of resources or finances though he would be entitled to.  Whilst I too question some of the statements and game planning.  More often that not he has got it right.

And finally with a bit of depth he is forcing players to earn their spot in the firsts.  Not something that has been the case for preceding 7 or so years.

[torch]

i just want him to play the young players like:

Polo, Connors, Hughes, Rance etc ...

Hyde, Bowden, Jackson, Shultz have had there chances.

pleased to see McGuane, Thursfield, Cotchin, Riewoldt, White get a match.

just play the young players.

last nights match was just ok.

need to finish off teams. but that 8 goal blitz was great. then 6 behinds in a row  ... needed just 1 or 2 to go through and would of crushed them.

Richardson is still our best player which in a way is not good. but i hope he wins the brownlow medal and continues his form. he was great.

Brown got that "05" form back a little last night.

Deledio can kill teams when he runs with the football. i hope he can just do that all the time.

Port Adelaide (Away)
Carlton (Home)
West Coast (Away)
Essendon (Home)

the next 4 matches will tell me and all Richmond supporters where we are at.

i truly believe that we can have those matches won.

they are all tough matches but very winnable.

Come On Richmond!

[jackstar]

Nail on head stripes.

I was with the wallace and miller haters tonight and said the same thing.

He has had 3 1/2 years and we have acheived a hell of a lot in that time. Only thing, that the proof will not be in the pudding for 2 - 3 years.

You cannot turn everyone over at once and play all the kids all the time.

One thing in TW's article about riewoldt going back to coburg and getting his bearings was spot on, do people see and understand these things or are they just to blind. I think Riewoldt will now see out the year.

I said to the guys 'If we get rid of wallace, what are the options ?' as usual no real answer, so I say what is the point.

Side note: mate asked Mccrae about Rance, he was really close last week and will get his go soon. See the future people and have just a little more patience and most of all at least try and be supportive. 

CUB,

Good post.

However even ine here we have some revisionist history.

A couple of facts (take note J'ster and D'161).  Terry came to a club that had lost $2 million and was between $3 million and $ 4 million in debt when he arrived.  The difference in debt views stems from which accounting view you use to look at the debt.  When Terry was announced as the coach (and no I can't be bothered finding the press clipping) he was announced as:
a) A coach with a plan
b) That he would get 5 years to deliver on his plan and vision, and
c) That he would help sell the club.

Given the finances at the time, the attempted Board putsch/coup, I can bet that he was asked/told/instructed that he had to show hope in year 1 (2005) so that memberships and finances could be rebuilt.  Point C may well have been the most important point in 2005.

I reckon TW was as gutsy as can be that year in cutting as deep as he did and trusting lots to a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds.  (And D'161 your rubbishing of the Graham drafting shows total ignorance of the facts presented above.)

In 2005 we broke even.  In 2006 and 2007 we finally made healthy profits.  Only in 2007 did TW get the support staff he needed/wanted.  A development coach (Craig McRae).  David King full time.

Note:  The clubs many compare us to, Collingwood and Hawthorn, have not had these finacial constraints.

All in all I believe TW has navigated the 3.5 years as well as possible.  I have never heard him bitch about lack of resources or finances though he would be entitled to.  Whilst I too question some of the statements and game planning.  More often that not he has got it right.

And finally with a bit of depth he is forcing players to earn their spot in the firsts.  Not something that has been the case for preceding 7 or so years.

After going to to last nights game, if you think we have improved, your dreaming, we aint.
Thank God for Richo and Brown, and Lids

[shannon]

WOW
cannot believe after beating melbourne  some people think Terry is ok.
Terry proved one thing last night, He Cannot Coach. If he could we would have and should have won by 12 goals, instead, once again in the second half he had no counter punch, was outcoached in the second half by a mile. worst win in our recent history, lucky we played melbourne, and we have richo,deledio and brown, otherwise we would have been creamed

[cub]

Let me explain this to you in simple terms Jack.

As a bottom line, 'have we improved' ? answer at the moment would be no.

Are we playing to the same level as before but with a lot of kids instead of re-cycled hacks and hangers on. Yes

So I would say we are in a better position, there are still a few to go petts tivs etc and that is nigh ....

Like I said the proof wont be in the pddiing for another 2- 3 years

On the Demons - Dissapointed we didn't put them away ? Yep - Happy we one ? Damn straight.

It wasn't the greatest game but hey a wins a win and in this day and age of footy there is no real gimmes anymore.

You are right on one thing, gunna be a big shock when we lose the cho and would like to see some bigger bodies in the next few drafts, thats for sure. Rance looks OK tho ......

How bout we make a deal Jack, if we beat port you are only allowed to focus on the positives for a change.

so anyway apart from all the slagging, are we all happy we won or not   ???
 

[WilliamPowell]

so anyway apart from all the slagging, are we all happy we won or not   ???
 

Happy to win

We needed to win and we did.

Really enjoyed that 2nd qtr - nothing wrong with that 16 minutes 

Some good signs from a couple of kids who are sometimes whipping boys 

[tiga]

Yep me too. Very happy with the win! Remember in 2001 when we made the finals. Most of our games were like yesterday. And we struggled all of the 2001 season to score over 100 points. This year we have already scored over 100 points on 6 occasions and came close on two others. For me thats improvement. I'm not expecting miracles this year but that second quarter effort proved that our young guys do have ability, we just need to increase our concentration and consistency.

[Con65]

Enjoyed the win.  We have in 12 games bettered what we did in 22 last season.  Look at our percentage, it is in the 90s.  It wasnt that high last season.  As pointed out, we regularly kick over 100pts and that is with Richo playing everywhere and not just in the fwd line.

Great posts from WP, CUB, HKTiger and Tiga.

Even Wallace stated in 04/05, you can't delist everyone in one hit.

In the 04 draft we picked up: Lids, Bling, Meyer, Patto, Polo, McGuane, Limbach, plus Graham Knobel and Thursty.  That is 10 new players in one year of which 8 were kids. see: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2004 ... all bar Meyer with only 17 and Limbach with 0 have played 20 or more games.

In the 05 draft we picked up: JON, Hughes, Casserley, White, Angus Graham, Humm and Howat.  Another 7 players and all young (even Humm was only 22). http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2005

In the 06 draft we picked up: Riewodlt, Edwards, Connors, Peterson, Collins, Kingsley, Clingan and King.  Again 8 new faces and 7 of them young kids.  3 of whom now see regular gametime.  see: http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-richmond-tigers?year=2006

In the 07 draft another 7 kids (excluding Howat). 

I have not included players we have traded for like Polak, Bowden, McMahon, but none of them were 'old'.  All under 25.

So why did someone say we did not start the rebuilding in 04?  We did start it there, just started much further behind than anyone could have imagined...The kids need experienced bodies around them...it is much easier to become integrated in an older established side...look at Brisbane with its kids and last year Selwood with Geelong.

The future looks bright at Tigerland...we are slowly becoming competitive...we need to do that before becoming dominant ...

[Stripes]

Great post Con65!

I have not included players we have traded for like Polak, Bowden, McMahon, but none of them were 'old'.  All under 25.

Not sure about Bowden though This is obviously an mistake but did you mean Morton?


Excellent factual evidence too to back up your arguments rather than the normal one lined meaningless statements many of the malcontents use around the forum when attempting to snipe TW.

 

Stripes

[Fishfinger]

Not sure about Bowden though This is obviously an mistake but did you mean Morton?

Paddy. 

No mistake, he was 24 when traded for.

[Stripes]

Not sure about Bowden though This is obviously an mistake but did you mean Morton?

Paddy. 

No mistake, he was 24 when traded for.

Oh.......that Bowden

You know I completely forgot about Patty and he was only delisted recently. I think once Polak came on the radar, Pattys (who played very similiar role) days were numbered.

I will be interested in the longevity of players such as Polak and McMahon if they do not begin to out preform the young fellows. We saw what happened to Patty...Tigerland is no place for under performing recuits. 

Sorry about the error in names

Stripes

[Francois Jackson]

Not sure about Bowden though This is obviously an mistake but did you mean Morton?

Paddy. 

No mistake, he was 24 when traded for.

Oh.......that Bowden

You know I completely forgot about Patty and he was only delisted recently. I think once Polak came on the radar, Pattys (who played very similiar role) days were numbered.

I will be interested in the longevity of players such as Polak and McMahon if they do not begin to out preform the young fellows. We saw what happened to Patty...Tigerland is no place for under performing recuits. 

Sorry about the error in names

Stripes

come on stripes i thought u were smarter than that.

TW will not drop mcmahon even if he gets less than 10 possessions for the rest of the year.

he hates looking like a fool

polak if he doesn't get better could be offloaded especially if rance comes good.

[WilliamPowell]

Just on Polak - quite funny that he (probably the worst set shot for goal we have) scored one yesterday easily 

Unlike Simmo who could hit the side of a barn 

 

[Stripes]

come on stripes i thought u were smarter than that.

Had you fooled then! 

McMahon will be in the side for at least another two years regardless as will Polak. Beyond that though I think TW will have given them enough time to move them on without loosing too much face...

WP - Polak looked like a seasoned forward the way he threaded that goal through but Simmo....the only goal he scored was when he karate kicked the ball through at point blank range and the goal was disallowed. Maybe that he what Simmo should revert to when he is getting the yips - roundhouse the ball! 

Stripes

[jackstar]

WOW
cannot believe after beating melbourne  some people think Terry is ok.
Terry proved one thing last night, He Cannot Coach. If he could we would have and should have won by 12 goals, instead, once again in the second half he had no counter punch, was outcoached in the second half by a mile. worst win in our recent history, lucky we played melbourne, and we have richo,deledio and brown, otherwise we would have been creamed

Thank you Shannon